Trainee Driver following a driver around to get a feel of shift work, procedures when booking on, viewing of notices in depots, cab checks, and the route in general. The only thing they are not doing is driving. Sometimes they are given a taskbook to fill out by the training school, which might have rules related questions, or might be asked to identify signs and signals found on the route.Just wanted to know what front end turns are, seen it a few times now.
Might also be known as "Cab Experience"
Unfortunately quite a few TOCs don't enough instructors so stick trainees on front end turns until one comes available. Fine for a couple of weeks, less so if it drags on for months.
There does appear to be a sniff of 'get the trainee out the way' about it all. Rather than a real practical and specific addition to their training schedules.
Very much bugger off and see you later at my TOC
I can sympathise with that. At some TOCs, 1st year (and in some cases, 2nd year) drivers aren't allowed people in the cab (apart from Managers or Driver Instructors), and also drivers who are on an action plan following an incident also can't take front Enders or route learners.Also not a lot of drivers volunteer outright to take front enders, so you could find yourself at the end of a platform looking for a passing driver prepared to let you jump in with them. So you can miss out on booking on and prepping.
Wait, Drivers can choose whether they want a trainee in the cab or not? Is ist for anyone or TOC-specific?
The UK railways world never ceases to amaze me.
Why is this such a surprise?
The cab environment is obviously a very safety critical place, before anyone is even allowed in the cab they have to have certain training, cab etiquette is very strict, the driver has total authority who he or she lets in whilst they are responsible for that train. Except for a Driver manager or Driver Instructor who may be assessing them .
I found all the drivers I asked where very happy to let me jump in and spend time with them, but I would have totally understood if they had said no, I know from my own personal experience that somedays I just dont want the distraction or company.
Following a Driver in his daily work can't be that waste of time... It wasn't for me st least.
I can sympathise with that. At some TOCs, 1st year (and in some cases, 2nd year) drivers aren't allowed people in the cab (apart from Managers or Driver Instructors), and also drivers who are on an action plan following an incident also can't take front Enders or route learners.
You also get drivers who aren't interested in having front Enders or route learners with them, maybe they are having a bad day and just want a bit of space, or they just don't want any company full stop. Eventually you've just got to take it on the chin and not take it personally if they refuse you a ride upfront!
Most companies who do it, my understanding is the training school is supposed to allocate drivers for the trainees to shadow for Front End turns, or failing that, provide a list of suitable drivers and how to get in touch.
Your not supposed to refuse to be relived by a DI or Manager but its been known to happen and there is an exceptional circumstance which allows it.
However, if Front-Ending is part of a structured learning programme, then this experience should be a little more organised, than 'here are the numbers of some drivers, get in touch with them and see you in 3 weeks with your task book completed'.
How about the Pilotman?There used to be only a single person we could not refuse entry into the cab. That used to be someone from the HMRI and that has been replaced so someone showing an ORR pass I think cannot be refused.
How about the Pilotman?
How about the Pilotman?
Good point, well made.
The Pilotman is a rulebook requirement and I was talking more on the lines of those who casually turn up and request entry. In the context of 'front ending'
If a trainee is let in into a cab I take that he's been trained enough about what he can or cannot do in it. Hopefully! If not, well, that's a TOC fault. But otherwise I can't see why a Driver could refuse a trainee in the cab. I have those days where I don't want company with me too, but that's my personal problem and surely it can't be a reason to say no.Why is this such a surprise?
The cab environment is obviously a very safety critical place, before anyone is even allowed in the cab they have to have certain training, cab etiquette is very strict, the driver has total authority who he or she lets in whilst they are responsible for that train. Except for a Driver manager or Driver Instructor who may be assessing them .
I found all the drivers I asked where very happy to let me jump in and spend time with them, but I would have totally understood if they had said no, I know from my own personal experience that somedays I just dont want the distraction or company.
If a trainee is let in into a cab I take that he's been trained enough about what he can or cannot do in it. Hopefully! If not, well, that's a TOC fault. But otherwise I can't see why a Driver could refuse a trainee in the cab. I have those days where I don't want company with me too, but that's my personal problem and surely it can't be a reason to say no.
And I think you can't refuse anyone out of respect too, since with you is coming someone who needs to stay in the cab to learn how to do the job and we've all been there at a certain point...
It's the awkward ones I get uncomfortable with. When you try to spark a conversation and you're having a one sided convo. Makes me want to boot them back out
It's the awkward ones I get uncomfortable with. When you try to spark a conversation and you're having a one sided convo. Makes me want to boot them back out
It's quite right that people doing a safety critical job are given latitude to work in an environment that is comfortable for them. If that includes not taking route learners, so be it.
Yeh that did cross my mind but if I'm the one opening a conversation then I'm happy to talk at that point. I shut up regardless when I need to concentrate