FSR to lose First livery

[djw1981]

Published Date: 01 August 2008
By Alastair Dalton
Exclusive
SCOTLAND'S trains are to be rebranded with a permanent Saltire livery, The Scotsman can reveal. The "ScotRail – Scotland's Railway" branding will give the network its first-ever uniform look, sweeping away different colour schemes used in the east and west.The move by Transport Scotland, the Scottish Government agency that is answerable to ministers, will be carried out during routine repainting to avoid extra costs.Stations will also be overhauled, using a dark blue colour scheme and blue signs similar to those at Edinburgh Waverley and Glasgow Central.

However, the rebranding brought accusations that the SNP government was using the Saltire for "independence by creep". It has already been employed in a range of Scottish Government initiatives, such as Healthier Scotland and Safer Scotland. Transport Scotland, whose own logo was inspired by the Saltire, stressed work on the new train design had started before the SNP came to power last year.

Transport Scotland said the rebranding aimed to provide the country's railways with a livery that will not change each time a new company takes over.The planned revamp is also to emphasise that the network is largely funded by taxpayers, rather than the private sector.

Gary Bogan, the head of franchise futures for Transport Scotland, said: "The current range of train liveries creates confusion in the minds of passengers about whose railway it is, and who is paying for it. It does not create a unified brand image. Changes in the franchise do not coincide with when we need to repaint trains. We aim to create a brand which is independent of the franchisee.
We want people to make the same connection as red buses have with London and yellow buses have with schools."

However, the move will mean yet another repaint for the train fleet, the last of which was rebranded in the current First ScotRail livery only last month.
The new look is due to be launched next month to mark the 25th anniversary of the ScotRail name being coined by British Rail.

The "First" name on trains will be reduced in size and prominence, so it can be more easily replaced if another company takes over when the franchise ends in 2014. The £2 billion cost of the Aberdeen-based FirstGroup's current ten-year franchise to run trains is the Scottish Government's largest contract.

Yesterday, First ScotRail said it was happy that it would remain readily identifiable as the train operator as part of the rebranding.Transport Scotland said the new ScotRail version of the Saltire had taken inspiration from the former British Rail's iconic double-arrow logo, which is still used as a symbol for stations.

The Saltire livery – which will also be extended to train interiors – will cover 260 trains across the country.At present, trains in much of Scotland are painted in First's corporate blue, magenta and white livery.The last two trains were overhauled with the new colours last month, replacing the ScotRail livery from the previous franchise four years ago.

However, most of First ScotRail's trains in Strathclyde, which carry two-thirds of the country's rail passengers, are still in carmine and cream – known as "blood and custard".These are the colours of the former SPT, which had a controlling interest in ScotRail until two years ago.

http://thescotsman.scotsman.com/latestnews/All-Scotland39s-trains-to-get.4348049.jp

 

[Krispo]

Doesn't really fit into the scenery of Scotland though, does it?

 

[me123]

If that pic is anything to go buy, this livery will either be beautiful or hideous. I hope for the former. I am worried, however, that we've just wasted possibly millions rebranding into "First" livery.

 

[Doorslammer]

I'm all for it. I would rather see something that didn't involve pink for a change. I still love the old National Express franchise colours for ScotRail and I'm glad that at last there is something better representative of the region.

 

[395 Olympic Javelin]

Does any one know when one of the units or the class 90 will go into the new livery?

 

[Bayum]

I remember reading about this in the main news a while back... I think it's something to do with people being sick of seeing new colour schemes all the time, and instead - giving Scotrail "One" Overall livery, and then the new Franchisee's putting their logos on, instead of a whole new repaint.

 

[me123]

I presume the first units to be repainted will be the carmine and cream trains: no evidence for this, but as I've already siad it seems stupid to just finish Firstisfying everything just to get rid of it a few months later. The SPT-liveried units have already had their SPT branding removed, so there's further evidence. I would imagine they'd get a 334 done quite soon (another guess; a new unit for the launch). Could easily be a turbostar as depicted in the picture, though, or maybe an older 318 or (God forbid) a 320

TBH, the FSR livery is quite nice IMO anyway, so we can certainly live with it for a wee while.

 

[Royston Vasey]

How dare they interfere with a private company's branding of their product, subsidised trains or not... How much has rebranding cost First?

Either the railways are privatised or they aren't....

 

[Mintona]

I think Scotland has more important things to worry about - it is a shameless attempt at distancing themselves from the UK.

 

[westcoaster]

i think it is a bad idea, i could understand if it were a local thing i.e spt/wmpte but not for a national livery, just think if they did that in england and put on a st. georges cross there would be outcry, i think they are trying to distance them selves from the rest of the uk and bring in a national brand, so is it only fsr getting involved or are virgin/nxec/axc/ftpx going to do there trains as well.

 

[87015]

How dare they interfere with a private company's branding of their product, subsidised trains or not... How much has rebranding cost First?

Either the railways are privatised or they aren't....

Yes, and ours clearly aren't privatised properly. If First get millions of pounds of subsidy then why shouldn't they answer to those who hand it out to them. I'd be all in favour of every UK train having the same livery with just minor franchise branding.

 

[driver9000]

I think there should be national liveries, not just for Scotland but for the whole UK something like 1 for InterCity, 1 for Local trains. It gives the impression of unity, the operators can put their logo on the trains, it will also make the railway look tidier instead of having 50 different colour schemes some now long defunct knocking around going tatty.

 

[First ScotRail]

SPT will be the first to disapear and all stations/trains over the next few years as part of fsr's maintenece programme.

 

[Royston Vasey]

I think there should be national liveries, not just for Scotland but for the whole UK something like 1 for InterCity, 1 for Local trains. It gives the impression of unity, the operators can put their logo on the trains, it will also make the railway look tidier instead of having 50 different colour schemes some now long defunct knocking around going tatty.

It'd look neater yeah, like the "good old days" but the train liveries are the most visible advertising/marketing tools TOCs available for them to use, otherwise they'd never repaint them at all (though yes this does happen, like the EMT 158s with a mixture of Northern Spirit TPE/Central/EMT branding). So doubt they'd allow it. I am surprised to say the least the First are quoted in this article as being happy about this.

Surely the railways are a more interesting and colourful place now c.f. the BR blue days though?

 

[43106]

I'd love to see the back of the First ScotRail livery - it is horrible. I've heard someone call it "Barbie-Doll", which is spot-on. Whoever sanctioned the idea of putting pink (or cerisse) on a train really needs an appointment at Specsavers! Not only that, but IF there's a Scottish identity applied to Scottish trains, then I don't have a problem with that - and that's from a bloke living in Edinburgh who's 75% Welsh and 25% English!

43106, frae Embra

 

[djw1981]

How dare they interfere with a private company's branding of their product, subsidised trains or not... How much has rebranding cost First?

Either the railways are privatised or they aren't....

It is not an interference, just a term in the contract extension signed earlier this year. It will be a rolling programme which will take 5 years because that is how often the units would be painted anyway. It will be done at scheduled painting times, thus no increased cost.

How many times have FGW been rebranded and reliveried by First, at First's expense.....

It is only FSR affected because they are the only Franchise which is issued by Transport scotland.

 

[me123]

The way I see it, it saves loads of money rebranding in the future! And, if it looks good (which I think it will) then all the better!

As for Scotland distancing themselves, well I love being part of the UK but at the same time I like the way things are just now. Our own government has done a lot more for us than the UK governement ever has for just about anywhere, just look at the hospital closures averted, the rail links opened and under construction... The Scottish Executive is doing something which is more than Gordon Brown can say... but let's not turn this into a nationalist slagging match.

 

[ADRboy]

Cracking news.

Will look much better than the mishmash of different colours etc.

 

[thelem]

I remember reading about this in the main news a while back... I think it's something to do with people being sick of seeing new colour schemes all the time, and instead - giving Scotrail "One" Overall livery, and then the new Franchisee's putting their logos on, instead of a whole new repaint.

But what has "One" Overall livery got to do with scotland?
http://*******.com/6n95wf

 

[class 313]

Another attempt of Scotland wanting to be seen as their own country and not in the UK. Does the colour scheme really matter? I'd rather the money spent on more important things.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

How many times have FGW been rebranded and reliveried by First, at First's expense.....

2 and a half.

 

[djw1981]

Eh?

The trains need repainting over the next 5 years. Instead of being done with First colours, they will be given this livery instead. How does that cost more?

 

[First ScotRail]

The paint is the same colour Just remove the barbie vynals. At present FSR continues as it is, come September, you will notice some changes, lets just say a lot is going on behind the scenes at fsr

 

[thefab444]

Our own government has done a lot more for us than the UK governement ever has for just about anywhere.

At our expense. :roll:

 

[class 313]

Eh?

The trains need repainting over the next 5 years. Instead of being done with First colours, they will be given this livery instead. How does that cost more?

They have just got the Scot Rail livery out and now there will be another livery coming in. Doing the opposite to what they want...

 

[First ScotRail]

At our expense. :roll:

Eh I think we are forgetting, Nothern Ireland gets most of "your" money.

 

[Phoenix]

I honestly think this is a good move I think the Railways have been here to serve a purpose not double up as A cheap and otherwise crap attempt at advertisement I mean Largo logo livery nowadays has turned into large advertisement livery.
As much as some say this is pointless it definatly is not I honestly think if scotland start working on the image of the railways and getting people to use the railways a uniformed service then It will benefit all.

And as this month Sir Ian Mcallistar has said we need to focus on the image of the railway not the train operating companies.

Although he actually did say "This is the age of the Train" .............oh dear.

 

[ADRboy]

Another attempt of Scotland wanting to be seen as their own country and not in the UK. Does the colour scheme really matter? I'd rather the money spent on more important things.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---


2 and a half.

Good. :grin:

The paint is the same colour Just remove the barbie vynals. At present FSR continues as it is, come September, you will notice some changes, lets just say a lot is going on behind the scenes at fsr

Such as?

 

[me123]

I guess he can't mention due to confidentiality. I have also heard a rumor (completely unconfirmed) that Mary what's-her-name is going to be heading south to head a baid for the South Central franchise, could that be what "First Scotrail" is talking about?

Anyhoo, less speculation. Scotland has a strong national identity, and putting this on the trains is no bad thing IMO. Although, I am worried about units doing the Newcastle runs... But still, I can see why other TOCs around the UK can't incorporate similar schemes; what would they base it on? OK, WY can use a Yorkshire rose colour scheme and Wales have the Welsh flag, but FGW run through many regions, as do Virgin, NXEC, NXEA, Southern, SWT, Chiltern, LM... In reality, it wouldn't work unless they all had St. George's Cross livery which 1) wouldn't work well due to the colour schemes and 2) wouldn't really work fo trains running to Wales and Scotland. That said, putting identity into other train liveries would be a really good idea IMO; so why are ya moaning?

PS: I notice a lot more anti-Scottish feeling since Gordo came into power. I have to say, most people up here hate him just as much as you do

 

[Dai.]

I like that livery better than FSR.

 

[Mojo]

It's a shame something can't be brought in like this on a national level, to make the network appear more unified and integrated. Take a look at how National Express coaches seem to appear as if they are one company, rather than a load of contractors (or 'franchisees') if you prefer.