G4s (I think) staff swearing at me

[andywandy]

On Friday at around 7 pm I travelled from Bangor (Gwynedd) to Burnage changing trains at chester.

I held a young persons railcard and purchased an off peak return from Bangor Gwynedd rail station to Burnage before travelling.

I originally purchased a ticket to burnage as I planned on walking home, however my dad offered to pick me up at Piccadilly)

(as Far as I Know I can break/end my journey at Piccadilly if I wish.)

Upon leaving Piccadily I walked past the point there are manual ticket barriers (normally g4s staff stood there checking tickets). I showed my tickets and the g4s staff member told me I had to continue on to burnage.

I politely told him I was not aware of this and offered to travel to Burnage.

He told me he would 'let me off this time' but as I was walking away he said young (rude word) are always trying it on. (which is pretty innapropriate if you ask me)

suffering from autism I felt pretty scared by the incident and left the station after informing a virgin TM who told me he would look into the incident for me as I wasn't the first person to complain about the g4s staff member.

Any idea what I should do? I feel really shaken up by the incident as I ALWAYS buy an appropriate ticket. If I am late for a train I will always ask the northern guard if I can buy a ticket on board before boarding. On the odd occasion their avantix is broken/not with them etc. I wait for the next train (sometimes a lengthy wait.)

This isn't the first time rpi's/g4s have been harsh to me.

 

[ian959]

Sorry, but if you were walking away from the person, how do you know he was swearing at you?

He might have been passing an (inappropriate) remark to a colleague, or just vocalising to no one in particular his thoughts. That does not condone the behaviour but is a long way from swearing directly at you.

 

[andywandy]

I was only a step or two away when he swore 'at me' and I'm certain he did say it. Either way the whole experience shook me up massively.

 

[hounddog]

Sorry, but if you were walking away from the person, how do you know he was swearing at you?

He might have been passing an (inappropriate) remark to a colleague, or just vocalising to no one in particular his thoughts. That does not condone the behaviour but is a long way from swearing directly at you.

Not condoning? You're making a pretty good stab at doing so.

Swearing about someone while they're still in earshot is no less acceptable than swearing directly to them. Particularly when the passenger is right. Even if you let the swearing go the incorrect advice on validity should be challenged. And if you're reporting that you may as well include the swearing as well.

 

[andywandy]

Did I do anything wrong here? am I missing something, it was an off peak return I had (I understand the basics of train ticketing. I did not have an advance ticket. This really knocked my confidence

 

[323235]

Is this the same STM person as Starmill has encountered at Victoria? The difference being this person swore in full surrounding of him.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Assuming that is a Permitted Route (i.e. you're not required to travel via Crewe instead) report the matter to Northern. The "rent-a-thugs" are not known for professionalism, so the more reports of bad behaviour the better. Perhaps they will bring the new franchisee to terminate the contract and employ people who are actually suitable for the job directly.

 

[miami]

Technically he's right:

Restriction code 8A: Break of journey is not
permitted except to change
trains at an intermediate
station or to access station
facilities.

So he shouldn't have "let you off".

However there no reason why you couldn't use the facilities at Piccadilly while changing train so he had no grounds to prevent you from passing. Had you left the station that's when you'd have broken the t&c of the ticket. As a member of rail staff allowed you to though you didn't actually do anything wrong. Had he just waved you trough you'd have been in the wrong.

Never an excuse for swearing about a specific customer, earshot or not.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

This isn't the first time rpi's/g4s have been harsh to me.

I assume that you are referring to STM Security, as G4S have not held the contract for quite some time now.

 

[andywandy]

I assume that you are referring to STM Security, as G4S have not held the contract for quite some time now.

the people in Yellow Jackets, last I heard they were g4s.

I feel awful for not travelling to Burnage now, I didn't know i'd done anything wrong. with Northern Prosecute me?

 

[andywandy]

Also is there a difference, as I was not breaking my journey, I was ending it early, I did not plan on/would not use the Piccadilly - burnage part later. I only purchase it like that incase my dad can not collect me

 

[tony_mac]

No, of course they won't take any action against you. Please don't worry about it.

Yes, there is certainly an argument that a (hidden) condition saying 'break of journey is not permitted' should not stop you ending your journey short. However, opinions do differ, and if we start discussing that it will likely go on forever.

Rail staff have been given guidance about this - unless there is clear intention to deliberately avoid a higher fare someone getting off early should not as a matter of routine be penalised.
I imagine that the only place that anyone will normally refer to the condition is on this forum, certainly not the ticket checkers at Piccadilly.

 

[andywandy]

should I let the issue with stm go seeing as I was in the wrong?

 

[Bletchleyite]

I imagine that the only place that anyone will normally refer to the condition is on this forum, certainly not the ticket checkers at Piccadilly.

Quite apart from that the OP is entitled to pass the barrier to use station services. That does not constitute a break of journey.

With ending short on walk-up fares I've always considered "no BoJ" to basically invalidate the ticket on exiting railway premises, not that anyone should be stopped from ending short. Starting short is a little more complicated of course.

 

[andywandy]

At the time after being let through the barriers I told (who I believed to be a Virgin TM, but it could have also been a customer service rep. i'm not too sure, and he said it wasn't the first time he had caused problems and would be sure to pass on my complaint, is anything further needed? I'm still a bit shocked at being sworn at by a railway staff member

 

[beeza1]

Technically he's right:

Restriction code 8A: Break of journey is not
permitted except to change
trains at an intermediate
station or to access station
facilities.

If the OP was not informed of said restriction at the time of purchase, (and the ticket endorsed with Restrictions Advised) then surely the restriction is not valid?
I have been using tickets with an 8A restriction for the last 6 years and have never once been advised of said restriction, in fact I have been told no such restriction exists by at least 3 different members of staff.
I only found out what 8A meant when I first joined this forum!

 

[andywandy]

Where can I find out what restriction code my ticket has? are they printed on the ticket?

 

[najaB]

If the OP was not informed of said restriction at the time of purchase, (and the ticket endorsed with Restrictions Advised) then surely the restriction is not valid?

Unless it's a new-fangled ticket that warns you that restrictions may apply and gives you the link to look up the restriction.

 

[gray1404]

Unless it's a new-fangled ticket that warns you that restrictions may apply and gives you the link to look up the restriction.

but even then its unreasonable to expect the customer to have internet access to be able to look up any restrictions.

 

[najaB]

but even then its unreasonable to expect the customer to have internet access to be able to look up any restrictions.

Agreed, but the fact is that they have been advised that restrictions apply. They may not know the details but then, if they really wanted to know, they could ask staff. It is similar to 'T&C's apply' tick boxes - even if you don't actually read them you are still bound by them.

Edit: Just checked and it says 'Ask staff or go to...'

 

[andywandy]

northern have not got back to me yet, how long shall I wait?

 

[beeza1]

Agreed, but the fact is that they have been advised that restrictions apply. They may not know the details but then, if they really wanted to know, they could ask staff. It is similar to 'T&C's apply' tick boxes - even if you don't actually read them you are still bound by them.

Edit: Just checked and it says 'Ask staff or go to...'

Fine if the staff know the restriction codes, one of my journeys has an 8A restriction on Off Peak Tickets, as I usually break my journey I purchase an Anytime Ticket which does allow BoJ, I was told by a staff member at the ticket office at a mainline station no such restriction regarding BoJ exists on that journey, and was shown computer screen where the only restrictions were on time of journey. I still purchased an Anytime ticket even though the staff member said I was wasting my money.

 

[yorksrob]

If these clueless wonders don't even know that you're allowed to break an off-peak journey, they shouldn't be working on the railway.

 

[najaB]

Fine if the staff know the restriction codes...

Oh, I'm not denying that knowledge of restrictions is an issue. I was simply pointing out that "The restrictions don't apply because nobody told me about them" argument is invalidated by the new ticket design. All tickets with restrictions should have a disclaimer to that effect by default, so no need for ticketing staff to endorse them.

 

[beeza1]

If these clueless wonders don't even know that you're allowed to break an off-peak journey, they shouldn't be working on the railway.

Not on the outward leg if it's got an 8A restriction, though you can on the return portion!

 

[yorksrob]

Not on the outward leg if it's got an 8A restriction, though you can on the return portion!

Whatever happened to that simplification of fares ! There's no excuse for such a restriction. Guess I'll have to be more wary about breaking my journeys in future.

 

[island]

The staff member was (probably by chance) correct in saying that you needed to continue on to Burgage. Whilst the terms you say you heard would be inappropriate if that was what was said, a complaint would probably be ineffective as it would be your word against his.

Edit: If it was the return portion, then that is a different matter.

 

[andywandy]

I was on the return portion of my journey, therefore was I allowed to break my journey?

sorry, what I meant to say was, IF Ihad been travelling on the outbound part of my journey (burnage ---> chester) Could I have broken my journey, not that I did. Alsois it likely the virgin person did pass on my complaint?

 

[miami]

The staff member was (probably by chance) correct in saying that you needed to continue on to Burnage.

Yes, but not immediately. OP could have gone to the Hour Glass for a couple of pints for example. That would have been absolutely fine.

 

[30907]

If you want to take the matter further, I wouldnt rely on the staff member passing the complaint on (no disrepect to rail staff implied) but would complain formally to the station operator which is actually Network Rail, AND to Northern.

The fact that BOJ may not be permitted on this particular ticket in this direction is irrelevant. Swearing is swearing.

BTW I can see no reason why that particular ticket carries restriction 8A. Normally the restriction is used to prevent people using an 8A fare to get round a restriction on a shorter distance journey, but I can't see where that applies in North Wales - any fares expert know?