GBRf to buy Colas 47s

[CosherB]

Reliable sources elsewhere online claiming that GBRf has relieved Colas of their 47s.

 

[Mag_seven]

Would make sense e.g. 47749 has been hired out to GBRf for seemingly ages.

 

[TimboM]

Would make sense e.g. 47749 has been hired out to GBRf for seemingly ages.

Yes - GBRf have had 47749 since the end of April, so over 7 months now. Before that they had 47739 for a long while. As far as I've noticed neither 749 nor 739 have done much other work for Colas during that period, bar the odd loco move/working here and there. 47727 on the hand has been stored since April 2016.

Indications are that in the short term they'll continue to be used to support the Sleeper operations in Scotland, including the transition to the new stock. I'd expect at least one of them to get a nice new 'midnight teal' paint job.

There were recent suggestions that there's only sufficient parts to have two of them working - not sure how accurate that is, but will be interesting to see if all are put back into traffic, or if one remains stored (or head to Barrow Hill...)

GBRf also have 47853 (acquired in Oct 16 from DRS) at Barrow Hill, plus there's further unconfirmed suggestions HNRC's 47703 (at Wabtec Doncaster) and 47769 (at Barrow Hill) are or were destined for GBRf. Not sure what the plans for these three 47s are (if indeed there are still plans).

 

[ScottDarg]

Stated by a reliable source elsewhere that 47727 will be painted into Caledonian Sleeper (CS) livery to act as standby/support for CS until mid-2018.

 

[cj_1985]

Nice to see happening, but very unexpected.
Wonder what the plan is for them longer term.

Longer term I would think that upgrading them to a 57 would be useful...

 

[GB]

I can’t comment on the 47 that’s painted up as I don’t know. However the 47s are to be used on a new Bombardier contract delivering new units to various regions between 2018 and 2021.

 

[route:oxford]

Longer term I would think that upgrading them to a 57 would be useful...

Given that it is 14 years since the last conversion of a 47 to 57...

What would a modern day conversion be like?

I'm thinking 4x QSK19s with on-demand operations and new AC traction motors.

 

[JonathanH]

I can’t comment on the 47 that’s painted up as I don’t know. However the 47s are to be used on a new Bombardier contract delivering new units to various regions between 2018 and 2021.

Is there some reason why new units should be delivered by 50-year old engines and not more conventional 'modern' freight engines?

Do GBRf simply not have enough 66s?

 

[Mag_seven]

Is there some reason why new units should be delivered by 50-year old engines and not more conventional 'modern' freight engines?

Do GBRf simply not have enough 66s?

In a word, yes (they don't have enough 66's).

 

[TimboM]

Is there some reason why new units should be delivered by 50-year old engines and not more conventional 'modern' freight engines?
Do GBRf simply not have enough 66s?

In a word, yes (they don't have enough 66's).

Or put another way, they have (more than) enough work for their 66s and stock moves don't need a 66's capabilities, hence this is a good/cost efficient way of expanding the fleet to cater for this new work without tying up 66s which would be better suited to other (freight) work.

 

[cj_1985]

Plus the 47s have a higher speed limit than a 66...

 

[fireftrm]

Nice to see happening, but very unexpected.
Wonder what the plan is for them longer term.

Longer term I would think that upgrading them to a 57 would be useful...

No, it wouldn't. If they want to 'upgrade' them to a 57 then buying some of the stored 57s and scrapping the 47s would be a lot cheaper, not to mention possible......(the GM engine wouldn't meet latest emission specs anwyay)

 

[E_Reeves]

GBRf also have 47853 (acquired in Oct 16 from DRS) at Barrow Hill, plus there's further unconfirmed suggestions HNRC's 47703 (at Wabtec Doncaster) and 47769 (at Barrow Hill) are or were destined for GBRf. Not sure what the plans for these three 47s are (if indeed there are still plans).

I went to Barrow Hill yesterday and 769 is in a right state, missing a door and looking very sorry for itself. When was the last time this loco moved?

 

[Spud man]

Is there some reason why new units should be delivered by 50-year old engines and not more conventional 'modern' freight engines?

Do GBRf simply not have enough 66s?

You can't fit Delner couplings to newer stock, only BR loco's with a standard hight drag box. And no it's not getting converted to a 57.

 

[headshot119]

You can't fit Delner couplings to newer stock, only BR loco's with a standard hight drag box. And no it's not getting converted to a 57.

I think you'll find you could fit Delner couplers to whatever you wanted to.

 

[sd0733]

You can't fit Delner couplings to newer stock, only BR loco's with a standard hight drag box. And no it's not getting converted to a 57.

Don't GBRf stick a portable Dellner on a 66 when they tow the eurostars to Kingsbury...also I believe one had one as something to do with IEP deliveries at one time.
The 92s are also being fitted for the sleeper and those aren't that much older than the 66 basic design and are newer than the first 59s which used the bodyshell

 

[Spud man]

I think you'll find you could fit Delner couplers to whatever you wanted to.

Wrong, the drag box is at the wrong hight on newer Loco's. Don't know how else to tell you fella.

 

[Spud man]

Don't GBRf stick a portable Dellner on a 66 when they tow the eurostars to Kingsbury...also I believe one had one as something to do with IEP deliveries at one time.
The 92s are also being fitted for the sleeper and those aren't that much older than the 66 basic design and are newer than the first 59s which used the bodyshell

The 92's are having a new drag box fitted for the 15 year contract, so you will get a return on the massive investment. Fitting the same on a 47 to move a few units will not pay, fitting a unit the same as the ROG 37's will. However that needs an ex BR loco height drag box.

 

[headshot119]

The 92's are having a new drag box fitted for the 15 year contract, so you will get a return on the massive investment. Fitting the same on a 47 to move a few units will not pay, fitting a unit the same as the ROG 37's will. However that needs an ex BR loco height drag box.

So you can fit them to whatever you want then...

 

[Spud man]

So you can fit them to whatever you want then...

Yes correct, I suspect you can go to the moon on your old knackered push bike if you had the money, however my point is you can't on cost grounds and nothing to do with the wibble being posted on here.

 

[Scotrail84]

I'd be using the 47s to replace 73s although not sure if 47s can go up the WHL

 

[TimboM]

I'd be using the 47s to replace 73s although not sure if 47s can go up the WHL

I wouldn't - the Colas 47s make the 73/9s look reliable!

And yes, they can go on the WHL - 47749 work the Fort Bill portion Sun 22nd/Mon 23rd October in the midst of the wheelflats crisis... https://flic.kr/p/ZTCFnu

And also here's 47739 on the WHL in May on an SRPS railtour: https://flic.kr/p/TQ48X1 - although it failed later on that trip and was then dragged to Washwood Heath and into store/repair for several months...

 

[TimboM]

GBRf already do stock moves - the Class 92s currently haul Class 707s and Class 700s through the tunnel, the latter being handed over to Class 66s for onward delivery. They just use barrier wagons for this. No reason this won't be the approach for the reported new contract with the 47s.

 

[route:oxford]

And yes, they can go on the WHL

Albeit not cleared to Oban if I remember correctly.

 

[Spud man]

GBRf already do stock moves - the Class 92s currently haul Class 707s and Class 700s through the tunnel, the latter being handed over to Class 66s for onward delivery. They just use barrier wagons for this. No reason this won't be the approach for the reported new contract with the 47s.

Barriers are not allowed on most depots now due to the running around required, Ramsgate being an example. This is why ROG moved on from them.

 

[Mag_seven]

Further details below:

"GB Railfreight has bought three Class 47/7s from Colas Railfreight - 47727 Rebecca, 47739 Robin of Templecombe 1938-2013 and 47749 City of Truro – after Colas decided to dispose of assets that are no longer part of its core business."

https://www.railmagazine.com/news/fleet/gb-railfreight-buys-three-class-47s

 

[alexl92]

What happened to the 16 Class 57/3s that had retractable Dellners fitted for Virgin? I know DRS had some, and WCRC bought 313-316 (I think) - does that account for them all or are others elsewhere? I’d have thought they’d be the most practical for new stock moves, surely?

Certainly don’t mind 47s getting more mainline work though!

 

[E_Reeves]

What happened to the 16 Class 57/3s that had retractable Dellners fitted for Virgin? I know DRS had some, and WCRC bought 313-316 (I think) - does that account for them all or are others elsewhere? I’d have thought they’d be the most practical for new stock moves, surely?

Certainly don’t mind 47s getting more mainline work though!

DRS 57s mainly stabled at main stations e.g Carlisle and Rugby for Thunderbird rescue duties. You were correct about the WCRC loco numbers and that is all locos accounted for. The DRS 57s don't get much use I believe except for the odd 1Z99 work and specials.

 

[alexl92]

DRS 57s mainly stabled at main stations e.g Carlisle and Rugby for Thunderbird rescue duties. You were correct about the WCRC loco numbers and that is all locos accounted for. The DRS 57s don't get much use I believe except for the odd 1Z99 work and specials.

Thanks, didn’t realise DRS had 12 of them! 305 and 312 in Northern Belle colours iirc?

 

[E_Reeves]

Thanks, didn’t realise DRS had 12 of them! 305 and 312 in Northern Belle colours iirc?

That's correct. DRS also have 9 57/0s as well, but they don't have dellner couplings but they are still found stabled in stations, Norwich is an example