GC's Bradford "4th Path"...

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GNERman

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From RAIL 693

GC has applied for a fourth daily Bradford to London Kings Cross service, albeit not by their usual route...

A new 0753 service from Mirfield operates via Bradford Interchange (0830), Leeds (0852), Doncaster (0932) and Kings Cross (1114).

The return is a 1608, then Doncsater (1747), Leeds (1827), Bradford Interchange (1848) and Wakefield Kirkgate (1954).

All services additionally call at Brighouse (London bound), Halifax, New Pudsey and Garforth.

Those of you that are eagle eyed will see that EC are currently using the 1608 slot. Ian Yeowart says "we have chosen the 1608 as East Coast has no rights beyond December to keep operating the Newarks". He also says that they have developed a solution which could mean that the Newark and the GC service could run.

Of note, it says that "GC operates services, Alliance develops the bids". No, Yeowart is not working for GC, again.
 
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Eagle

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This was submitted to Network Rail two weeks ago; full details are here.

(I notice that the documentation makes reference to a fifth Sunderland service as well, which there doesn't seem to be an application for.)

GC have also applied for ECS paths to and from Crewe for maintenance, out of interest.
 

91101

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Have you got the details right that they are proposing a 1hr 39 minute non stop London - Leeds on the return working?

It would have to loop the existing 1605 Leeds at Peterborough, which is doable, but the journey time of 1hr 39, whilst fantastic, seems unrealistic.
 

Eagle

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Have you got the details right that they are proposing a 1hr 39 minute non stop London - Leeds on the return working?

It would have to loop the existing 1605 Leeds at Peterborough, which is doable, but the journey time of 1hr 39, whilst fantastic, seems unrealistic.
Times quoted in the OP are wrong.

Monday to Friday the proposed timetable is this:

Code:
                 arr  dep
London King's X       1608
Doncaster        1747 1748
Garforth         1816s
Leeds            1827 1830
New Pudsey       1839s
Bradford Intrchg 1848 1904
Halifax          1918
Brighouse        1929
Wakefield Kirkgt 1954
Saturday:

Code:
                 arr  dep
London King's X       1620
Doncaster        1754 1756
Garforth         1817s
Leeds            1829 1832
New Pudsey       1841s
Bradford Intrchg 1850 1903
Halifax          1918
Brighouse        1929
Wakefield Kirkgt 1954
Sunday:

Code:
                 arr  dep
London King's X       1703
Doncaster        1833 1835
Garforth         1903s
Leeds            1915 1917
New Pudsey       1928s
Bradford Intrchg 1937 1942
Halifax          1954
Brighouse        2005
Mirfield         2012
Wakefield Kirkgt 2027
All then run ECS to Crofton
 

91101

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Ahh yeah I noticed that in the consultation document!

Interesting, and again, now that Ian Yeowart is spearheading GC's development, I wouldn't put it past him to get this through, its a good proposal, and one that could make them money. They have the slack in the fleet, and sure enough, its been a while since we have heard of significant issues with GC's 180s!
 

Eagle

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For unrealistic read fantasy-land. What makes them think they will suddenly be allowed to serve Leeds?
One train a day that gets overtaken by an EC service? Shouldn't be too difficult. It's not exactly going to abstract much from EC. Serving Leeds is no different to serving Doncaster or York.



Here are the up timetables.

Monday to Friday:
Code:
                 arr  dep
ECS from Crofton
Mirfield              0753
Brighouse             0801
Halifax               0811
Bradford Intrchg 0825 0830
New Pudsey            0838u
Leeds            0849 0852
Garforth              0900u
Doncaster        0930 0932
London King's X  1114
ECS to Ferme Park
Saturday:
Code:
                 arr  dep
ECS from Crofton
Mirfield              0835
Brighouse             0843
Halifax               0853
Bradford Intrchg 0908 0911
New Pudsey            0919u
Leeds            0929 0931
Garforth              0940u
Doncaster        1010 1018
London King's X  1154
ECS to Ferme Park
Sunday:
Code:
                 arr  dep
ECS from Crofton
Wakefield Kirkgt      1239
Mirfield              1254
Brighouse             1303
Halifax               1315
Bradford Intrchg 1328 1331
New Pudsey            1340u
Leeds            1350 1352
Garforth              1400u
Doncaster        1426 1430
London King's X  1611
Remains in the platform to form return service
 
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tbtc

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If you spend a minute thinking about it, I don't think 1tph will fail the "abstraction" test...
If you spend a minute thinking about it, I think 1tph will fail the "abstraction" test...

Itpd, on the other hand, probably wouldn't :lol:

Glad to hear that GC are making so much money on their Bradford service that they are wanting to add more (cue complaints from the Wakefield contingent about the long time taken to go from Doncaster to Wakefield though!)
 

Failed Unit

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Would east coast keep the 1608 slot should they want to use it as they already have it or does it not work like that? Is it a case of who gives the most £?
 

Failed Unit

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I think it's a case of EC not being guaranteed that slot in the December timetable (yet), and GC leaping on the opportunity.
I understand that, but I just expected that east coast would keep the path if they wanted it as they already operate it. Just as in would expect GC to keep the 1650 path once thier fixed period elapses over other operators.

I will have to take a look at the apps again, I know there was speculation that East coast was going to try and extend the Newarks, to york and increase the weekend service to Edinburgh if they could find another HSt. But that is the joys of the rumour machine.

I can't see east coast letting the 1608 path go and leaving Grantham and Newark with 1tph at that hour in the shoulder peak.
 

Failed Unit

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EC applied to make York slows hourly extending the Newarks...
I hope the dont get that and are forced to using the extra set to go to Lincoln.

It is a pity an open access operator such as GC couldn't do a service such as London, Spalding, Sleaford, Lincoln, Gainsborough, Doncaster and North, but the time penalty would be too great which is a shame.
 

Aictos

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My only question is why does the trains concerned have so much time in the proposed timetable at Bradford Interchange, surely there's no need for it as the existing Northern Rail services between Blackpool North and York are only timetabled 2 minutes at that location.

If anything, surely 5 mins would suffice - anything more is overkill, if the padding there was vastly reduced making the overall journey quicker then this would make it more attractive to passengers.

Look forward to the reason why it has to spend so long at Bradford Interchange...
 

Welshman

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Oh, yes, indeed. I agree. A big improvement.

Thinking about my earlier comment, if the stock is stabled at Crofton, it would be going back through/coming through Wakefield and Mirfield, so it may as well carry any passengers rather than run ECS.
 
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Even for the stations where the journey takes longer, it would be an additional option and add much-needed flexibility and hence value to GC Only tickets in particular.
 

Wath Yard

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For unrealistic read fantasy-land. What makes them think they will suddenly be allowed to serve Leeds ?
Worth a punt though. It is the only way the Bradford service is going to make any money, so if they get away with this expect them to try and route the others via Leeds. If you are going to be cheeky you may as well go the whole way and go for a path that will be very popular with business travellers, and already used by another TOC. You never know, they may just get away with it.
 

34D

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Very pleasing that Garforth and New Pudsey may have London services again.

New Pudsey was served by the daily Brad Int-London direct service until the mid 1980s.

Does anyone recall whether Garforth _ever_ had a direct London service?

The very best of luck to GC with this. The proposed service will be much more useful to more people than a 1608 to Newark or to York - they could even ask to call at Newark if this was a solution
 

tbtc

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Very pleasing that Garforth and New Pudsey may have London services again.

New Pudsey was served by the daily Brad Int-London direct service until the mid 1980s
Of course, if they are allowed to run a London - Pudsey service in the afternoon then that gives them an argument to run a Pudsey - Leeds service (and to complain that 'rail bosses" won't let them).

Thin end of the wedge?
 

D1009

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Worth a punt though. It is the only way the Bradford service is going to make any money, so if they get away with this expect them to try and route the others via Leeds. If you are going to be cheeky you may as well go the whole way and go for a path that will be very popular with business travellers, and already used by another TOC. You never know, they may just get away with it.
I can't see it happening, particularly after what McNulty said about open access. If the ORR doesn't throw it out, Network Rail will on the grounds of no paths available or performance risk.
 

Failed Unit

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Very pleasing that Garforth and New Pudsey may have London services again.

New Pudsey was served by the daily Brad Int-London direct service until the mid 1980s.

Does anyone recall whether Garforth _ever_ had a direct London service?

The very best of luck to GC with this. The proposed service will be much more useful to more people than a 1608 to Newark or to York - they could even ask to call at Newark if this was a solution
Really, so the typical GC service to Bradford has more passengers than the East Coast stopper? I agree perfect solution stop at Grantham and Newark!
 

34D

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Really, so the typical GC service to Bradford has more passengers than the East Coast stopper? I agree perfect solution stop at Grantham and Newark!
I haven't travelled on the Newark stopper, however the GC services I've seen have been nicely loaded - especially their first up and last down.
 
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