Generally popular trains that you have good reason to dislike.

[brel york]

at least your gettin a toilet on the 320s lol

 

[atomicdanny]

I can only really think of 3 types that I don't really like. The 390 not because of the overall design but everytime I've been on one the heaters were always on full and felt like my legs were about to be burnt off (not litterally of course just made the journeys very uncomfortable for me), also the 376s for the horrible seats, they are just litterally plastic with a tiny bit of foam on them. I also dislike the class 66s while they aren't passenger locos, they are just boxes on wheels and are well everywhere... (I actually think the newer 70s look better than the 66s!).

While I don't hate the Class 375s that my local station now has (with the occasional 465), I would rather the 365s (not a typo!) or 411/421/423s back they were better to travel on!

 

[ralphwedgewood]

(1) Class 31 and 6 mark 1's (maybe an occasional mark 2a) March to Leicester in the early '80s.
Even at moderate speeds (and the class 31 was only just capable of very moderate speed) the mark 1's were either rough or very rough but at least had the benifit of compartments - the trick was to wedge yourself into a corner seat in the middle compartment. You could try you hand in the Mk2, if you didn't mind the hard slippy seats and over bright lighting.

(2) The 0720ish parly Peterborough - Kings Cross, again in the early '80s. Two class 31's this time, which could give a good account of themselves speed wise. One thing they were not able to do was to heat the train - and this was in February.
You always ended up at KX warmer than you started and I put this down to the body heat of the other passengers, of whom there were many.

 

[BestWestern]

Lots of posts on here so apologies if I missed it, but has anyone mentioned seating on the (SWT) Desiros? Thin, hard and just bloody awful! I've heard it said suprisingly often that they're high quality, surely it can't be just be me who thinks they're uncomfortable?! Try snoozing in one, they're so hard your head just rattles around on the headrest! Other than that, I work 150s frequently and the interior doors give the age game away regardless of refurbs being done, how many other 'modern' trains are there with hinged doors between the coaches?! And the exterior doors can be depressingly slow to close and interlock too :-/ Ho hum...

 

[ChrisCooper]

Hinged doors between coaches are common on trains of that era with 1/3 2/3 doors. All the EMU classes have them, up to the 323s I think, or at least the 322s, and up to the 456s on the Southern side. Networkers were the first with powered doors between coaches.

 

[BestWestern]

That's a very good point, I had forgotten about all the BR standard EMU's, doh!! It's a pain in the backside when you're doing revenue up and down after every stop with armfulls of Avantix/chip & pin/stampers etc etc.... :cry: And, on our (FGW) sets at least, they never seem to want to close properly or they're hanging half off the hinges. Still, in fairness at least you can have some ventilation on a 150, air-con being an optional extra on the 158s!! Not great with a full coach of hot people and four hopper vents to keep them alive :roll:

 

[route101]

For me it has to be 334s for which i can never get comfortable in them seats . They have a jittery start too .
I dont really like the seats in the 320s , far too low.

 

[BestWestern]

How about a slight change of direction; does anyone have any interesting thoughts on the most/least attractive stock currently in use? I'd have to nominate the awful Class 70 as my ugly duckling, if that's the best the Yanks can do in a design studio then let's just stick to the completely unstyled 66s & 67s! Although one presumes FL must have approved the look, for reasons best known to themselves perhaps I always think the 90s have a certain style to them, and the Wessex Electric 442s have always been pretty. Anybody else??

 

[lm321412]

Lots of posts on here so apologies if I missed it, but has anyone mentioned seating on the (SWT) Desiros? Thin, hard and just bloody awful!

Well if they are anything similar to the ones in the 350/2s I totally agree!!!

 

[MCR247]

450s have, 444s have 2+2 seats

 

[Peter Sarf]

How about a slight change of direction; does anyone have any interesting thoughts on the most/least attractive stock currently in use? I'd have to nominate the awful Class 70 as my ugly duckling, if that's the best the Yanks can do in a design studio then let's just stick to the completely unstyled 66s & 67s! Although one presumes FL must have approved the look, for reasons best known to themselves perhaps I always think the 90s have a certain style to them, and the Wessex Electric 442s have always been pretty. Anybody else??

Dont be so hasty to criticise the 70s. You're overlooking the latest cosmetic re-design of them. Some nice reverse curves on the latest delivery !.

 

[amcluesent]

395s as it took me ages to find the plug for my laptop charger.

 

[317666]

170s - from my experiences with NXEA and XC examples, they're rattly, uncomfortable, overcrowded pieces of junk. Give me a Sprinter any day

 

[Eng274]

My only criticism of 170s is that they're a bit on the sluggish side. Never experienced the rattling, and overcrowding would still occur if it was a sprinter in its place. If i'm pedantic, they make a serious racket when the radiator fans are in full swing though.

 

[ChrisCooper]

Problem with the 170s is that they were designed to do so many difference services, yet really are not wonderfully suited to anything. They are too sluggish and have too long door cycles for suburban or even branch work (I know they won't keep to Sprinter times on the Norfolk branches) yet their door layout means that they aren't great for long distance work either. The lack of corridor connections is another downside where they need to run in multiple. I think MML were particularly disapointed with them because not only did they lack capacity, but they did not live up to performance expectations either. They just were not as fast as the HSTs, even on the same stopping pattern. Then there was the reliability, although at least it got sorted. I think the only reason they have been so popular is due to lack of competition. The 175s were awful (although I think like the other Alstom trains they have improved) and the 185s are overweight. At least the 172 seems to have solved the performance problem when it comes to suburban work, and is gangwayed (LM ones). Be interesting if it's the end of the 170 or if any more are ordered, afterall no-one has ordered them for over 5 years now.

 

[TomJ93]

I'm not awfully keen on 170s, though I think the 168s are superior for some reason.

 

[90019]

Not sure about that. Actually, whilst they obviously have their faults (which have now become quirks more than anything), they really are awesome trains. The fact they are all still in very high demand (years after they were meant to slowly be replaced) shows this quite nicely.

I assume you are of the same opinion of other trains such as pacers then?

 

[144022]

153 s are my nightmare only one engine and with working for northern my chances of a demic are very high

 

[Failed Unit]

I have to add the mk3 onto the list purely because of the draughts. The revised internal doors don't help because of the large vents now fitted.

The train is often freezing in the winter, put chiltern may have solved this. Coupled with the way the coach lurches and results in spilt drinks when you pass other trains a speed. The mk4 is much better to ride on.

I would rate the ride of my enermy the pendo higher than the mk3 if it wasn't so cramped!

 

[Daimler]

I have to add the mk3 onto the list purely because of the draughts. The revised internal doors don't help because of the large vents now fitted.

The train is often freezing in the winter, put chiltern may have solved this. Coupled with the way the coach lurches and results in spilt drinks when you pass other trains a speed. The mk4 is much better to ride on.

I would rate the ride of my enermy the pendo higher than the mk3 if it wasn't so cramped!

Really? Which company's HSTs are these - I travel on FGW a couple of times a week on average, and I've never found them to be draughty or cold at all (well, unless the laughably unreliable vestibule doors aren't working - my most serious gripe with the Mk3 coach).

 

[Failed Unit]

Really? Which company's HSTs are these - I travel on FGW a couple of times a week on average, and I've never found them to be draughty or cold at all (well, unless the laughably unreliable vestibule doors aren't working - my most serious gripe with the Mk3 coach).

East Coast, it was -12oC outside but the mk4s are a lot warmer.

The host in first class warned me about watching the mugs as trains passed on the train side.

 

[Daimler]

East Coast, it was -12oC outside but the mk4s are a lot warmer.

The host in first class warned me about watching the mugs as trains passed on the train side.

Yes, even Roger Ford - who seems to be a big fan of the Mk3 design - admits that the 'slam' as another train passes at speed is a weakness.

I'd be interested to know why it happens, actually...

 

[Foxhound]

47s. Duffs. Spoons. Whatever you want to call 'em. They were definitely not well regarded back in the day, but now they seem to have mysteriously been imbued with the spirit of 'classic traction' as though they were 37s or something.

Erm, actually, for me it may be the much vaunted and hallowed 37s. I did chase them around a bit for something to do in Scotland and later in South Wales during the mid-80s, but to be honest, I'd far rather have had 26s or 27s, and there were a few times I wasted going to Swansea with 374bizarre when I could have been doing bombs on the Matlocks (which I only found out about on the way home!). They're okay, but that's about it, they're, well, okay....

If it's not 37s it's probably 31s, the only locos where the power handle is actually just a volume control. Abyssmal performance standing in for anything, whether it's four coach stoppers or a 31/4 with load 7 on the MML. You know you're bowled when the lights in the sky turn up.

In terms of units, I can't say anything about 3rd rail EMUs as I'm not a Southern region resident, nor about 25kvs as I don't live under wires.

DMUs, on the other hand - I don't like any Pacer variants, or 150s, 153s, or 158s particularly. Why? Well, because they're just dull, to be fair, and, on the whole, an uncomfortable and uninspiring ride.

 

[IanPooleTrains]

Well, from my picture, you can probably tell what I don't like

But as far as what I really don't like but is very popular, I might cause a lot of controversy with this but I am going to put my hat on the London Midland 323s

Yes, they are fantastic to listen to as they depart with their yes, yes, yes exit and their no, no, no entrance but to ride on them. The seats are hard, they are very comfortable and they make a horrible chattering noise when they are moving.

And I am not talking like a clickety clack you usually get but we are talking about a horrible sort of knocking noise that they make as they move along.

Dunno whether the Northerners feel the same with their 323s but for me, they just don't do it, even though they are fantastic to listen to

 

[90019]

The seats are hard, they are very comfortable and they make a horrible chattering noise when they are moving.

First time I've come across that being considered a bad thing

 

[IanPooleTrains]

First time I've come across that being considered a bad thing

I've not long woke up, full of cold, getting ready to go to Keighley tomorrow and i meant UNcomfortable

 

[junglejames]

I assume you are of the same opinion of other trains such as pacers then?

Regarding the fact they are very much in demand still, yes i am of the same opinion, and for very good reasons. Cant deny it. Unfortunately they dont quite reach the standards of the Mk3 though!!
As for what i think of Pacers. Despite having many bad points, I think they do their job very well, and are a necessary part of the railway. I also actually like travelling on them.

 

[IanPooleTrains]

Pacer buses are for people who don't care about the state of their spinal cord after their journey!

 

[Peter Mugridge]

Yes, even Roger Ford - who seems to be a big fan of the Mk3 design - admits that the 'slam' as another train passes at speed is a weakness.

I'd be interested to know why it happens, actually...

It's just the shock wave from the two trains hitting each other isn't it? Probably the shape and length of the carriage sides have an aerodynamic effect that prevent the shock wave dispersing as much as on stock with shorter carriages and slanted sides.

When I travel on Mk 3 stock I always try to sit on the right hand side specifically to experience the slam effect...

 

[Daimler]

It's just the shock wave from the two trains hitting each other isn't it? Probably the shape and length of the carriage sides have an aerodynamic effect that prevent the shock wave dispersing as much as on stock with shorter carriages and slanted sides.

When I travel on Mk 3 stock I always try to sit on the right hand side specifically to experience the slam effect...

Ah right, I was wondering if it might be because the Mk3 bodyshell, as an older design, has a little more 'flex' than more modern trains.