Given strange advice by TPE

[scgf]

I bought a first-class advance ticket from Leicester to Manchester for 28th December. I have been given 7 minutes to change trains in Sheffield.

The first leg of the journey is on East Midlands Trains, the second leg is Trans-Pennine Express.

Yesterday I sent an email to TPE to ask what I should do if the train from Leicester is late arriving in Sheffield and I miss my connection.

This is the advice I was given:

"I have checked my system and found that the connection time between your connecting trains is 7 minutes, which is the standard connection time. I would also like to inform you that if you missed your connection as a result of a delay on the earlier train you have to buy a new ticket as you hold an Advance ticket.

However, if you are delayed as a result of this you can claim for compensation on your original ticket and not on the new ticket."

I would have expected to be allowed on the next train departing for Manchester. Surely this can't be right if I have bought one ticket for the whole journey?

I would appreciate any advice.

Cheers.

 

[Max]

This is absolute rubbish. As per the Advance ticket Ts & Cs, you will be able to travel on the next available service. I would certainly be inclined to email back quoting the following:

If delays occur while travelling, you will be allowed to take the next available train(s) to complete your journey.

 

[scgf]

Thank you Max! You have put my mind at rest. I have emailed this information to TPE asking why their advice differs from NRE.

 

[LexyBoy]

I second Max's comments. Furthermore, it has been clarified that you would be carried on the next available train even if you held separate tickets for the two legs, as it is still considered a single journey.

The only thing to remember is that you must use the services of the booked TOC - in this case TPE - to make your journey in the case of being delayed. This isn't made clear on the Advance ticket T&Cs.

Thank you Max! You have put my mind at rest. I have emailed this information to TPE asking why their advice differs from NRE.

Please let us know their response!

 

[tony_mac]

Please let us know their response!

I will guess at a series of unconnected paragraphs that are vaguely apologetic without either admitting fault or specifically addressing the point.

But they do have a freepost address.

 

[All Line Rover]

My experience of TPE's Customer Relations department is that they are almost as useless as NXEA's Customer Relations department. :roll:

 

[bb21]

I will guess at a series of unconnected paragraphs that are vaguely apologetic without either admitting fault or specifically addressing the point.

But they do have a freepost address.

I will be inclined to write back and politely request an apology for basic errors such as this if one does not come with the response. It highlights some serious flaws in training. The question needs to be asked as to what point the existence of the department is if it cannot provide a useful answer without misleading a passenger on a simple question such as this.

 

[pemma]

My experience of TPE's Customer Relations department is that they are almost as useless as NXEA's Customer Relations department. :roll:

They forwarded a query about TPE Advance tickets that I sent them to Virgin Trains. Then, Virgin tried to respond to it!

ATW also sent a query I sent them about the Chester-Warrington-Manchester service on to Northern Rail.

 

[AlterEgo]

I believe at least part of First TPE's Customer Services/Relations department has been outsourced to a private contractor. This may explain the low quality of the response. I think outsourcing Customer Relations/Services is a tactic used by First TOCs. Certainly, I got a very glib response to glowing praise I gave FGW about their Travelling Chef recently. Such a shame; I wasn't convinced the crew would have read my comments.

 

[lyesbkz]

I believe at least part of First TPE's Customer Services/Relations department has been outsourced to a private contractor.

Indeed, there is a vague reference on their website 'this service is provided for First TransPennine Express by a contracted company, so will only be able to deal with online ticket sales' referring to Web Sales Support, or so I understand.

 

[clagmonster]

I bought a first-class advance ticket from Leicester to Manchester for 28th December.

May I ask who you bought the ticket from?

 

[All Line Rover]

I believe at least part of First TPE's Customer Services/Relations department has been outsourced to a private contractor. This may explain the low quality of the response. I think outsourcing Customer Relations/Services is a tactic used by First TOCs. Certainly, I got a very glib response to glowing praise I gave FGW about their Travelling Chef recently. Such a shame; I wasn't convinced the crew would have read my comments.

That is shocking! hock: Good quality communication between a TOC and its customers is essential for customer satisfaction. They'd better not do such a disgusting, abhorrent, reprehensible act if they won the West Coast Franchise!

Having said that, I could criticize Virgin just as much for outsourcing their telesales to people in India, most of whom can't seem to speak a word of English. They should really have UK-based telesales. I'm not putting my hopes up though, as East Coast - who were setting a good example - have recently outsourced their telesales as well!

 

[Solent&Wessex]

As far as I can tell, Contact Centre services are done by FirstInfo Ltd (which is part of First Group). Web ticket sales (and I assume related services) are done by the Trainline.

 

[yorkie]

Is the route shown on the ticket EMT & Connections? If so then the next available train can be used, irrespective of operator in this case.

I know someone who has written to TPE expressing concern at similar advice in the past and had been told training would take place to avoid a repeat.. looks like the training perhaps wasn't quite adequate.

 

[scgf]

Is the route shown on the ticket EMT & Connections? If so then the next available train can be used, irrespective of operator in this case.

My ticket says AP EMT & Connect. I bought it from MyTrainTicket.co.uk and opted to collect it from my local EMT station ticket machine.

The ticket was issued with a seat reservation for both the EMT & TPE legs of the journey. Interesting if I could use any connecting service from Sheffield in the event of the service from Leicester running late . .

 

[pemma]

The ticket was issued with a seat reservation for both the EMT & TPE legs of the journey. Interesting if I could use any connecting service from Sheffield in the event of the service from Leicester running late . .

An Advance ticket always include reservations on other legs if they are available. I've had Virgin + Connections tickets and been given a reservation for legs with TPE.

The old style airline type tickets used to even have legs without seat reservations printed on it.

 

[mikeg]

My ticket says AP EMT & Connect. I bought it from MyTrainTicket.co.uk and opted to collect it from my local EMT station ticket machine.

Why did you use this website, which charges a booking fee? Next time, book directly with EMT. They offer £1 off their own advance fares, don't know if it applies to EMT & Connect. though and don't charge a booking fee.

I believe at least part of First TPE's Customer Services/Relations department has been outsourced to a private contractor.

That would explain why last time I contacted them they didn't have a clue about routeing validity as well!

Apart from that, you should have been allowed to board the next appropriate connecting service irrespective of TOC if the train arrived into SHF with less than 7 minutes to change.

 

[Lampshade]

My ticket says AP EMT & Connect. I bought it from MyTrainTicket.co.uk and opted to collect it from my local EMT station ticket machine.

The ticket was issued with a seat reservation for both the EMT & TPE legs of the journey. Interesting if I could use any connecting service from Sheffield in the event of the service from Leicester running late . .

You've been allocated a reservation on the TPE service, so this is the one you should ideally catch, but as has already been mentioned if delays occur while travelling, you are able to catch any next available service.

While you may have to speak with the Guard on TPE/EMT services as they are reservable, be aware that if you miss the TPE, you can catch the Northern Rail stopping service without any issue whatsoever as the service does not have reservations.

 

[All Line Rover]

You've been allocated a reservation on the TPE service, so this is the one you should ideally catch, but as has already been mentioned if delays occur while travelling, you are able to catch any next available service.

While you may have to speak with the Guard on TPE/EMT services as they are reservable, be aware that if you miss the TPE, you can catch the Northern Rail stopping service without any issue whatsoever as the service does not have reservations.

If one happened to have an "EMT & Connections" ticket from London to Manchester via Sheffield, and the "& Connections" part was for a non-reservable Northern Rail service between Sheffield and Manchester, would one be permitted to take a TPE or EMT service from Sheffield to Manchester?

 

[Bungle73]

The only thing to remember is that you must use the services of the booked TOC - in this case TPE - to make your journey in the case of being delayed. This isn't made clear on the Advance ticket T&Cs.

What happens if the TOC you're booked on is someone like Grand Central who only run a few trains a day, and next service isn't for several hours? Or if there is no other service on that TOC that day?

That is shocking! hock: Good quality communication between a TOC and its customers is essential for customer satisfaction. They'd better not do such a disgusting, abhorrent, reprehensible act if they won the West Coast Franchise!

Having said that, I could criticize Virgin just as much for outsourcing their telesales to people in India, most of whom can't seem to speak a word of English. They should really have UK-based telesales. I'm not putting my hopes up though, as East Coast - who were setting a good example - have recently outsourced their telesales as well!

I thought the trend these days was to bring call centres back to the UK? I know my bank has done this.

 

[ainsworth74]

What happens if the TOC you're booked on is someone like Grand Central who only run a few trains a day, and next service isn't for several hours? Or if there is no other service on that TOC that day?

Acording to the Advance Fare FAQs from The Manual:

Q23. Can a passenger travel on a TOC X train if they are booked on another TOC's advance dedicated ticket?

A. No. Dedicated TOC tickets (="TOC X only") do exactly what gthey say on the ticket. However, during times of disruption, retail and on-train staff should use their discretion, as advised by their control office.

I would expect that if the situation you describe arose then discretion would mean the ticket would be endorsed to travel on another TOCs service. Indeed I'm fairly sure when GC services are disrupted Route: GC Only tickets (which would include their advance tickets) do get either endorsed for travel on EC or passengers are issued with Route: Any Permitted tickets to complete their journey.

 

[bb21]

What happens if the TOC you're booked on is someone like Grand Central who only run a few trains a day, and next service isn't for several hours? Or if there is no other service on that TOC that day?

I would imagine then the 60-minute threshold will be used. If the wait until the next train is going to be more than 60 minutes you should be allowed to use services provided by other TOCs.

 

[island]

That seems like it would give an advantage to someone who got a ticket routed AP SLOUGH rather than GREAT WESTN ONLY (and corresponding analogues such as AP GRANTHAM, AP RUGBY, etc.)

 

[Deerfold]

That seems like it would give an advantage to someone who got a ticket routed AP SLOUGH rather than GREAT WESTN ONLY (and corresponding analogues such as AP GRANTHAM, AP RUGBY, etc.)

Who else runs through Slough?

 

[LexyBoy]

Who else runs through Slough?

For example, an Exeter-London ticket routed AP Slough could be used on XC to Bristol then FGW to Paddington. Or SWT via Salisbury, Basingstoke then FGW/XC to Reading then FGW to Paddington.

 

[Deerfold]

For example, an Exeter-London ticket routed AP Slough could be used on XC to Bristol then FGW to Paddington. Or SWT via Salisbury, Basingstoke then FGW/XC to Reading then FGW to Paddington.

Ah, I see - so the restriction is only a restriction on that part of the route - stops travel into Waterloo but without restricting the operator on the other end of the route.

 

[scgf]

Why did you use this website, which charges a booking fee? Next time, book directly with EMT. They offer £1 off their own advance fares, don't know if it applies to EMT & Connect. though and don't charge a booking fee.

I tried the EMT website and couldn't find such a good deal. I can only ever find discounted tickets when looking for trains to London. Everything to Manchester was coming up at full price.

Through My TrainTicket.com I managed to get two singles from Leicester-Manchester and back. Outward for £22 first class, and return for £13. I was pleased with that. The only downer is that I live in Market Harborough and will need to get to Leicester. A return ticket between MH/ Leicester is £13 and no amount of searching will get me a discount.

 

[island]

Try redspottedhanky.com or another TOC's website, such as Southern, neither of which charge booking fees. I guarantee you that mytrainticket.co.uk does not have access to special fares that don't show up on other websites.

 

[scgf]

I checked on EMT and thetrainline.com and couldn't see these single tickets as cheap. Surely they wouldn't have been available only for a few hours, would they?

Incidently, TPE got back to me to say that their CS Advisor was assuming I had split tickets for my journey, even though I had made that perfectly clear in my initial request.

 

[CompactDstrxion]

If one happened to have an "EMT & Connections" ticket from London to Manchester via Sheffield, and the "& Connections" part was for a non-reservable Northern Rail service between Sheffield and Manchester, would one be permitted to take a TPE or EMT service from Sheffield to Manchester?

Yes, as long as you don't break your journey.