Goring Gap/AONBs and Electrification of the GWML

[Who Cares]

Sorry...Being a 60+ years old techno dinosaur, I've really no idea how to use Photobucket, Pinnterest or whatever this years current fad is....


I'm sure someone else will be able to download the photo and put it up on here soon....

 

[Domh245]

I'm sure someone else will be able to download the photo and put it up on here soon....

Like this? It appears to be 2 centrally mounted TTCs made out circular steel and finished in Brown. It only really works when there are larger gaps between the tracks. Whilst browsing that page, I found the following quote which made me chuckle a bit

The gantries as seen from Basildon Park house, before the trees get their leaves and obscure them completely.

(second image)

 

[rebmcr]

I'm sure someone else will be able to download the photo and put it up on here soon....

Voila.

 

[snowball]

Previously on here I suggested a similar T-shaped arrangement for the Thames bridge at Maidenhead so perhaps that will happen too.

 

[Who Cares]

Previously on here I suggested a similar T-shaped arrangement for the Thames bridge at Maidenhead so perhaps that will happen too.

With Theresa May as the local MP and the zillionaires who live on the adjacent river bank in full view of the bridge, I'd suggest there's a better than even chance....

 

[swt_passenger]

With Theresa May as the local MP and the zillionaires who live on the adjacent river bank in full view of the bridge, I'd suggest there's a better than even chance....

There won't be any chance if the bridge at Maidenhead isn't wide enough. Moulsford is two separate parallel bridges, and the dual cantilevers are fixed to mounting plates on the inside faces of the two bridges, well out of sight from a distance.

 

[dviner]

Like this? It appears to be 2 centrally mounted TTCs made out circular steel and finished in Brown. It only really works when there are larger gaps between the tracks. Whilst browsing that page, I found the following quote which made me chuckle a bit

The gantries as seen from Basildon Park house, before the trees get their leaves and obscure them completely.

(second image)

OH! THE HORROR!! Hang on, where are the gantries? Ah, there they are. MY EYES!!! MY EYES!!!

 

[Who Cares]

HILARIOUS !!

To be expected, I suppose, that the irony would be lost with someone on here....

The trees are actually Basildon Park's own trees which managed to be far enough away from the line to escape NR's deforestation of trackside trees....

Next joker / sarcasm non-expert please....

 

[DarloRich]

HILARIOUS !!

To be expected, I suppose, that the irony would be lost with someone on here....

The trees are actually Basildon Park's own trees which managed to be far enough away from the line to escape NR's deforestation of trackside trees....

Next joker / sarcasm non-expert please....

You cant see the masts. I had to look at that picture for about 5 minutes to see them!

The visual impact is simply hideous though. Wont someone think of the children/horses/house prices etc (Is that enough sarcasm? I have more if you like )

 

[yorksrob]

To be fair, the Basildon Park shot looks fine to me. I don't see what the problem is.

 

[dviner]

Voila.

Is it just me, or are the angles a bit weird on this? I would have expected the cross-pieces to be in line with the middle pier of the bridge - i.e. going high to low from right to left (assuming that the difference in height is due to perspective).

Unless, of course, it's only the first part of an homage to the semaphore signalling towers of the contemporary era to the bridge, and the higher levels are yet to be fitted.

(First paragraph serious. Second, not so.)
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

To be fair, the Basildon Park shot looks fine to me. I don't see what the problem is.

I don't think the "keep off the grass" hoops are in keeping with the architectural theme set by the stone balustrades.

 

[Philip Phlopp]

HILARIOUS !!

To be expected, I suppose, that the irony would be lost with someone on here....

The trees are actually Basildon Park's own trees which managed to be far enough away from the line to escape NR's deforestation of trackside trees....

Next joker / sarcasm non-expert please....

That's how screening and mitigation works, you know.

Trees that can come into contact with the OLE are a safety risk, if they don't trip the OLE, they'll catch fire, which is fun to watch until it buggers up the railway for the evening peak. Trees which aren't a safety risk can be left alone, screening the railway and its new OLE from sensitive eyes.

 

[Domh245]

Is it just me, or are the angles a bit weird on this? I would have expected the cross-pieces to be in line with the middle pier of the bridge - i.e. going high to low from right to left (assuming that the difference in height is due to perspective).

The viaduct itself is skewed so that the railway goes on it's path but the piers lie parallel to the water flow (to prevent damage occuring from the currents hitting the bridge side on as at Lamington viaduct). As for the placing, it'll have been placed where it needs to be placed to fit in with the rest of the electrification (or where it can be mounted with the surrounding masts adjusted to fit, ISTR that there is a limit on how much the spacing between masts can change by per mast) - in this case, it'll probably have been mounted on one of the cross links between the 2 decks that can be seen in the satellite image.

 

[Philip Phlopp]

The viaduct itself is skewed so that the railway goes on it's path but the piers lie parallel to the water flow (to prevent damage occuring from the currents hitting the bridge side on as at Lamington viaduct). As for the placing, it'll have been placed where it needs to be placed to fit in with the rest of the electrification (or where it can be mounted with the surrounding masts adjusted to fit, ISTR that there is a limit on how much the spacing between masts can change by per mast) - in this case, it'll probably have been mounted on one of the cross links between the 2 decks that can be seen in the satellite image.

/me nods.

If the spacing isn't perfect, just add a couple of extra portals, one either end of the bridge. You might also want to tighten the spacing if the bridge is prone to higher wind speeds. The Royal Border bridge has the best mast spacing anywhere on the ECML at around 45 metres.

 

[dviner]

The viaduct itself is skewed so that the railway goes on it's path but the piers lie parallel to the water flow (to prevent damage occuring from the currents hitting the bridge side on as at Lamington viaduct). As for the placing, it'll have been placed where it needs to be placed to fit in with the rest of the electrification (or where it can be mounted with the surrounding masts adjusted to fit, ISTR that there is a limit on how much the spacing between masts can change by per mast) - in this case, it'll probably have been mounted on one of the cross links between the 2 decks that can be seen in the satellite image.

Much more obvious when you see the cross links - as is the amount of skew with respect to the river, which isn't as obvious in the posted picture.

 

[nlogax]

I don't think the "keep off the grass" hoops are in keeping with the architectural theme set by the stone balustrades.

I'm sure with some extra investment they could be redesigned to be more aesthetically pleasing and complementary to their surroundings.

 

[Who Cares]

You cant see the masts. I had to look at that picture for about 5 minutes to see them!

The visual impact is simply hideous though. Wont someone think of the children/horses/house prices etc (Is that enough sarcasm? I have more if you like )

Nah....Don't bother....

And don't wink at me - unless, of course, you really do want me and not just a quickie behind the train sheds....

 

[DarloRich]

I remain convinced that if this line being built though any number of northern hell holes ( like ooh Darlington or Middlesbrough) not only would the ohle equipment not be changed but the trains would be running already.

Odd that the good people of Yorkshire are not being offered a vast number of tunnels and cuttings to screen their view of the HS2/3/4 line. I wonder why? I guess that is what being a loud, rich, plummy, southern Tory voter with a vastly expensive pad buys you!

btw that isnt sarcasm - that is aggressively northern chippiness

 

[dviner]

I remain convinced that if this line being built though any number of northern hell holes ( like ooh Darlington or Middlesbrough) not only would the ohle equipment not be changed but the trains would be running already.

Odd that the good people of Yorkshire are not being offered a vast number of tunnels and cuttings to screen their view of the HS2/3/4 line. I wonder why? I guess that is what being a loud, rich, plummy, southern Tory voter with a vastly expensive pad buys you!

btw that isnt sarcasm - that is aggressively northern chippiness

Ah, but isn't it because the gantries striding majestically through the Yorkshire environs provide a modern nuance to the architectural influences and artifacts of the Industrial Revolution that abound in the region, whereas the same gantries detract dreadfully from the thatched cottages, swimming pools, tennis courts, cricket pitches and car parks that complement the Areas of Outstanding NATURAL beauty.

(I think there's some sarcasm up there - not 100% certain seeing as I have partaken of wine, and it's past bedtime)

 

[jimm]

There won't be any chance if the bridge at Maidenhead isn't wide enough. Moulsford is two separate parallel bridges, and the dual cantilevers are fixed to mounting plates on the inside faces of the two bridges, well out of sight from a distance.

There is also a portal version of this tubular mast design. And more metalwork at Moulsford than just that T shape with more at the bride ends, as Mt Phlopp suggested. As I said back up the thread, the same design is being used at Gatehampton bridge, just to the south of Moulsford, so some version of it will doubtless appear at Maidenhead.

 

[Who Cares]

JIMM....

The Gatehampton Viaduct is just south of Goring....No idea what OLE has been installed there and not sure if that is a 'double' bridge or a 'single' bridge, if you know what I mean...

I'm told that either side of the Moulsford Viaduct is the usual OLE and just half a mile further north from there are several much higher masts alongside the electrical sub-station ( is it ? ) which nobody knows what they're for...Any ideas ?

Whatever, the OLE which has appeared at Moulsford really does look quite elegant in the photos and as I said, kudos to NR even if the end result came about by circumstances rather than by deliberate design....

 

[tsangpogorge]

So are we back to using Headspans? I really don't see what alternative there is, maybe run the bi-modes in diesel between Reading and Didcot?

 

[Domh245]

The Gatehampton Viaduct is just south of Goring....No idea what OLE has been installed there and not sure if that is a 'double' bridge or a 'single' bridge, if you know what I mean...

If I have managed to pinpoint the right one, it looks like a single deck, so it'll most likely be a conventional portal as opposed to a T. By my count, it is also over 100m long, so it'll almost definitely a mast in the middle of it (or possibly 2 either side of the middle depending on the rest of the installation)

I'm told that either side of the Moulsford Viaduct is the usual OLE and just half a mile further north from there are several much higher masts alongside the electrical sub-station ( is it ? ) which nobody knows what they're for...Any ideas ?

The ones in the back of this photo? ISTR that they are to do with feeding the OHLE

So are we back to using Headspans? I really don't see what alternative there is, maybe run the bi-modes in diesel between Reading and Didcot?

The chances of headspans are close to zero, and the chances of forcing trains to run on diesel for a section is even closer to zero. It'll probably end up as a "Here is the alternative design - if you want it installed, you can pay for it, otherwise please accept our apologies for not doing the consultation in the first place" - or something to that effect.

 

[rebmcr]

I remain convinced that if this line being built though any number of northern hell holes ( like ooh Darlington or Middlesbrough) not only would the ohle equipment not be changed but the trains would be running already.

Odd that the good people of Yorkshire are not being offered a vast number of tunnels and cuttings to screen their view of the HS2/3/4 line. I wonder why? I guess that is what being a loud, rich, plummy, southern Tory voter with a vastly expensive pad buys you!

btw that isnt sarcasm - that is aggressively northern chippiness

:cough: Ordsall Chord :cough:

 

[jimm]

JIMM....

The Gatehampton Viaduct is just south of Goring....No idea what OLE has been installed there and not sure if that is a 'double' bridge or a 'single' bridge, if you know what I mean...

And to be pedantic it is also south of Moulsford. I was referring to its location in terms of the places where the railway crosses the Thames, not which village it is near.

I've said twice in this thread that the same basic design of tubular metalwork seen at Moulsford is being used on the bridge at Gatehampton. However, the particular arrangement of metalwork appears to be on a case-by-case basis, depending on what is most suitable for each structure and where it can be attached to cause minimal visual impact.

At Gatehanpton, the bridge was widened in much the same way as at Maidenhead, by building a matching arch right next to the 1830s original.

I'm told that either side of the Moulsford Viaduct is the usual OLE and just half a mile further north from there are several much higher masts alongside the electrical sub-station ( is it ? ) which nobody knows what they're for...Any ideas ?

The only place the tubular design is being used is on the bridges. I expect Mr Phlopp may know what the taller masts are for, presumably supporting cabling or equipment for the autotransformer feed.

Whatever, the OLE which has appeared at Moulsford really does look quite elegant in the photos and as I said, kudos to NR even if the end result came about by circumstances rather than by deliberate design....

No, it was a deliberate design choice to use the tubular structures - there is a long track record of using different catenary structures on listed bridges, such as the Royal Border Bridge at Berwick and Durham viaduct. There are other examples as well, with Moulsford, Gatehampton and Maidenhead just being the latest, because Network Rail are not complete barbarians.

Something similar was used recently at the Sankey viaduct between Liverpool and Manchester https://c1.staticflickr.com/9/8581/16322500288_2d849b1691_b.jpg

The metalwork at Mouulsford and Gatehampton is darker than the finish on the ones pictured here.

 

[JamesT]

So are we back to using Headspans? I really don't see what alternative there is, maybe run the bi-modes in diesel between Reading and Didcot?

Diesel might be fine for the bi-modes, but the electric-only 387s are going to be a bit stuffed if there's no electrification.

 

[swt_passenger]

There is also a portal version of this tubular mast design. And more metalwork at Moulsford than just that T shape with more at the bride ends, as Mt Phlopp suggested. As I said back up the thread, the same design is being used at Gatehampton bridge, just to the south of Moulsford, so some version of it will doubtless appear at Maidenhead.

I was trying to refer only to the probable inability to use the same T-shaped tubular double uprights mounted down the centre of the bridge. Tubular portals mounted "outside" would be perfectly possible as you point out.

 

[QueensCurve]

Diesel might be fine for the bi-modes, but the electric-only 387s are going to be a bit stuffed if there's no electrification.

But worryingly there is talk about DaFT changing the order for Hitachi to provide bi-modes rather than electrics.

The travelling public could be paying for all this by riding in non-ideal trains for 40y.

 

[nlogax]

But worryingly there is talk about DaFT changing the order for Hitachi to provide bi-modes rather than electrics.

The travelling public could be paying for all this by riding in non-ideal trains for 40y.

To placate those 'affected' by OHLE aesthetics at Goring Gap? No. I don't believe that'll happen for a second.

 

[jimm]

But worryingly there is talk about DaFT changing the order for Hitachi to provide bi-modes rather than electrics.

The travelling public could be paying for all this by riding in non-ideal trains for 40y.

That is because of the delays in wiring west of Didcot, while at the same time allowing the new trains to enter service as scheduled and enabling GWR to release the HSTs that are going to Scotland. Not because of anything that might happen to the overhead east of Didcot.