Government advice discussion

[ainsworth74]

Because if you give the police an inch they'll take a mile. Look at the police in Coventry getting a barbecue to disperse by smashing all their stuff up. I don't recall the emergency legislation giving those powers to the bizzies.

I actually think that this one is a bit more egregious:

Excercise is limited to around an hour per day and not more than once. Please stay home

https://twitter.com/GMPDenton/status/1243502883565428738

Last I checked the regulations didn't set any time limits nor actually, if you read them, a limit on the number of trips out. I have zero issue with the police or anyone else recommending that people do as above, it is after all good advice*, but this is just making up their own rules...

*And personally I'd like to avoid the situation where the government do actually bring in harsher restrictions which will no doubt happen if people continue to take the mick.

 

[Tetchytyke]

I have zero issue with the police or anyone else recommending that people do that, it is after all good advice, but this is just making up their own rules...

It's the same people who claim photographing trains is illegal. It's why I'm so reluctant to give the police any powers that require "common sense" or "discretion". If the bizzies can't be trusted to not make stuff up about legislation that's pretty clear-cut, I really wouldn't give them "discretion". I certainly wouldn't give them spying powers!

 

[Belperpete]

Similar experience here. Non stop concrete lorries going backwards and forwards to a new housing estate in Crediton.
In no way is that essential work.

You are allowed to carry on non-essential work provided that you can do so while keeping the distancing rules. That is why people can still work from home. Sturgeon in her address to the Scottish Assembly, gave the example of a gardener working alone as someone who could also continue working.

Some building firms have been claiming that they can carry on building work while maintaining the distancing rules. While there are undoubtedly some building jobs that can be carried out single-handedly, in practice most jobs involve people working in pairs: the brickie and his mate passing the bricks, the leccy and his mate pulling cables, and so on. This was most clearly demonstrated in a news item a few days back, when the site manager being interviewed was piously explaining how they were carefully following the distancing requirements, while in the background there were several pairs of staff clearly not doing so!

 

[Cowley]

You are allowed to carry on non-essential work provided that you can do so while keeping the distancing rules. That is why people can still work from home. Sturgeon in her address to the Scottish Assembly, gave the example of a gardener working alone as someone who could also continue working.

Some building firms have been claiming that they can carry on building work while maintaining the distancing rules. While there are undoubtedly some building jobs that can be carried out single-handedly, in practice most jobs involve people working in pairs: the brickie and his mate passing the bricks, the leccy and his mate pulling cables, and so on. This was most clearly demonstrated in a news item a few days back, when the site manager being interviewed was piously explaining how they were carefully following the distancing requirements, while in the background there were several pairs of staff clearly not doing so!

I could probably do my job without coming into contact with anyone but I’ve chosen not to because I have that option.
Who knows what pressure is being put on the drivers that work for this firm but I personally can’t say that my work is ‘essential’ (nobody will die if I don’t splash paint on their walls), and the less we all move around the less risk there is - and some of that risk in my mind is working on sites, being up scaffolding etc.

 

[Kite159]

The rules about driving somewhere to carry out your excerise (a walk) are a bit grey. For example I can drive for around 5 miles to reach a public accessable area of Salisbury Plain, park on the side of a byway and walk for miles without seeing another person, and even if I see another person it's easy to avoid them.

Certainly easier to avoid contact than walking around the village, as no doubt the usual area where walks are possible will be full of dog walkers

 

[Meerkat]

The rules about driving somewhere to carry out your excerise (a walk) are a bit grey. For example I can drive for around 5 miles to reach a public accessable area of Salisbury Plain, park on the side of a byway and walk for miles without seeing another person, and even if I see another person it's easy to avoid them.

Certainly easier to avoid contact than walking around the village, as no doubt the usual area where walks are possible will be full of dog walkers

it’s not just about social distancing- they want fewer people driving about.
And many country walks involve clambering over stiles and opening gates

 

[krus_aragon]

Last I checked the regulations didn't set any time limits nor actually, if you read them, a limit on the number of trips out

The Welsh Government's version of the regulations differs slightly from the English one, and does have a limit of one excercise outing a day: https://www.legislation.gov.uk/wsi/2020/353/regulation/8/made

 

[ainsworth74]

Aaaand I'm not sure that this was a good use of police time or resources but here we are anyway:

Police have dyed the normally bright blue water of beauty spot in Buxton black, in a bid to deter people from gathering there.

Flouting government instructions to stay at home in a bid to slow down coronavirus, groups were reportedly meeting up at the disused quarry at Harpur Hill, near Buxton.

Officers posted photos of the normally pretty pool on Facebook, showing before and after shots of the pit with and without the black dye.

Derbyshire Police wrote in their message: "Yesterday we received reports that people were congregating at the 'Blue Lagoon' in Harpur Hill, Buxton.

"No doubt this is due to the picturesque location and the lovely weather (for once!) in Buxton.

"However, the location is dangerous and this type of gathering is in contravention of the current instruction of the UK Government.

"With this in mind, we have attended the location this morning and used water dye to make the water look less appealing."

Link

The Welsh Government's version of the regulations differs slightly from the English one, and does have a limit of one excercise outing a day: https://www.legislation.gov.uk/wsi/2020/353/regulation/8/made

Aha interesting. My excuse is by not living Wales I didn't look into the Welsh legislation

 

[Meerkat]

“Police have dyed the normally bright blue water of beauty spot in Buxton black, in a bid to deter people from gathering there”
I don’t think this is new - there are serious safety concerns (think the water might be poisonous as well as drowning issues??) so they have dyed it before when it gets popular.

 

[yorksrob]

Aaaand I'm not sure that this was a good use of police time or resources but here we are anyway:



Link


Aha interesting. My excuse is by not living Wales I didn't look into the Welsh legislation

They should stand by for an influx of goths !

 

[Esker-pades]

They should stand by for an influx of goths !

The famous goth community of Buxton.

 

[yorksrob]

The famous goth community of Buxton.

It mightn't be big, but I'm sure it's got one

 

[JohnB57]

It mightn't be big, but I'm sure it's got one

As the actress said...

 

[yorksrob]

As the actress said...

Ooh Matron !

 

[JohnB57]

Ooh Matron !

I'm not a real one. It's just my weekend gear.

 

[yorksrob]

I'm not a real one. It's just my weekend gear.

 

[Belperpete]

The rules about driving somewhere to carry out your excerise (a walk) are a bit grey. For example I can drive for around 5 miles to reach a public accessable area of Salisbury Plain, park on the side of a byway and walk for miles without seeing another person, and even if I see another person it's easy to avoid them.

https://www.gov.uk/government/publi...dance-on-staying-at-home-and-away-from-others
"You should be minimising time spent outside of the home" If you drive somewhere to go for a walk, rather than taking your walk locally, then you are patently not minimising the time spent outside your home - you have increased it, in direct contravention of the regulations. Quite black and white I would say.

 

[JohnB57]

As I know you've identified yourself Pete, the real problem - and it's a big problem - is the significant minority who are simply too self centred to accept that the rules aren't there simply to protect them but to do the best for all of us. It's a special kind of stupid.

 

[nidave]

Citation please.

There is also disagreement about what the rules should be. Some other countries are less strict, others more so.

Giving police powers to snoop to the level you propose is a very slippery slope. If you're prepared to trade liberty for security, you deserve neither.

Simple. You carry the virus. You infect others. Some may die from your actions. Therefore your putting others lives at risk.
Your lack of basic compassion is sickening

 

[nidave]

As I know you've identified yourself Pete, the real problem - and it's a big problem - is the significant minority who are simply too self centred to accept that the rules aren't there simply to protect them but to do the best for all of us. It's a special kind of stupid.

This x10p0p0
So many people who if someone did the same to cause them hardship, illness or even death of a loved one would be complaining the loudest.

 

[ainsworth74]

https://www.gov.uk/government/publi...dance-on-staying-at-home-and-away-from-others
"You should be minimising time spent outside of the home" If you drive somewhere to go for a walk, rather than taking your walk locally, then you are patently not minimising the time spent outside your home - you have increased it, in direct contravention of the regulations. Quite black and white I would say.

Whilst I certainly don't disagree that that is good advice and what everyone should be doing, it isn't what the regulations that actually give this weight of law say:

Restrictions on movement
6.—(1) During the emergency period, no person may leave the place where they are living without reasonable excuse.

(2) For the purposes of paragraph (1), a reasonable excuse includes the need—

...

(b) to take exercise either alone or with other members of their household;

...

Now I like I said I think that that is excellent advice from the Government and everyone should follow it. But it isn't the law.

 

[Tetchytyke]

You carry the virus.

Citation please.

You infect others.

Citation please.

Nobody will catch Coronavirus from my private motor vehicle.

 

[JohnB57]

Now I like I said I think that that is excellent advice from the Government and everyone should follow it. But it isn't the law.

And, labouring my previous post a little, it shouldn't need to be the law. It should just be common sense and common courtesy.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Citation please.

I assume he's working on the basis that has been suggested widely, i.e. unless you've been tested to prove you haven't got it (which is valid at precisely the moment of the test only, a bit like a DBS check or something) you should assume that you have in terms of how you act with regard to others, and that you haven't in terms of how you act with regard to yourself.

I think that makes a lot of sense.

 

[JohnB57]

I assume he's working on the basis that has been suggested widely, i.e. unless you've been tested to prove you haven't got it (which is valid at precisely the moment of the test only, a bit like a DBS check or something) you should assume that you have in terms of how you act with regard to others, and that you haven't in terms of how you act with regard to yourself.

I think that makes a lot of sense.

I read it as meaning that if you have it or even carry it asymptomatically, you will infect others you come into contact with. That fact doesn't require any further citation but I'm sure China, Italy and Spain would verify it.

 

[Ianno87]

And, labouring my previous post a little, it shouldn't need to be the law. It should just be common sense and common courtesy.

Agree - the law stipulates the "red lines" that absolutely should not be crossed.

But common sense dictates that you should seek to stay as far from breaching these red lines as practical - but setting the law in line with this would be induly harsh and may rule out the minority of genuine exceptional circumstances.

 

[yorksrob]

Who the hell knows where exactly 2k from their front door is anyway ?

 

[Islineclear3_1]

I do take issue with the police gaining additional powers. They haven't got enough resources to deal with regular crime.

And it reminds me of a recent interview between a well known radio presenter and a retired police chief who would be perfectly happy to taser people or fire baton rounds if they didn't comply with the coronavirus lockdown

Is this the world we want, Really...?

 

[JohnB57]

I do take issue with the police gaining additional powers. They haven't got enough resources to deal with regular crime.

And it reminds me of a recent interview between a well known radio presenter and a retired police chief who would be perfectly happy to taser people or fire baton rounds if they didn't comply with the coronavirus lockdown

Is this the world we want, Really...?

But if the alternative, for a few months at least, is a world in which an arrogant, selfish minority get away with - almost literally - murder, is that a world in which you want to live? I sincerely hope you're lucky enough to avoid your life being put at risk through contact with those people. I'm certainly making sure mine isn't.

I could get even more boring about this. But in two or three weeks, if things are as projected and "those people" still haven't seen the point and modified their behaviour, I'll be very surprised. At that point I guess they'd be a lost cause.

This is very serious. We need to do whatever it takes to make everyone treat it as such.

 

[farleigh]

We're

But if the alternative, for a few months at least, is a world in which an arrogant, selfish minority get away with - almost literally - murder, is that a world in which you want to live? I sincerely hope you're lucky enough to avoid your life being put at risk through contact with those people. I'm certainly making sure mine isn't.

I could get even more boring about this. But in two or three weeks, if things are as projected and "those people" still haven't seen the point and modified their behaviour, I'll be very surprised. At that point I guess they'd be a lost cause.

This is very serious. We need to do whatever it takes to make everyone treat it as such.

We're doomed.......

......aaaalll doomed!