Grand Central Expansion

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Humberside

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Today Yorkshire Post lists Grand Centrals long term plans. These include:

A 4th daily London-Sunderland service
4 daily Bradford-London services, run independtly of the Sunderland service
An hourly Bradford-Doncaster service, calling at Halifax, Brighouse, Wakefield Kirkgate and Pontefract
A Euston-Huddersfield-Bradford service (2009/10 start date mentioned)

Speeds of 140mph are also mentioned for Bradford services
 
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Tomnick

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Hmm, I can understand their wanting to increase the Sunderland service and provide Bradford - Londons (not that I agree with it, but that's another debate). I don't really see the point of a Bradford/Halifax/Brighouse/Pontefract to Doncaster service though - surely the market for travel to Doncaster from those towns can't be that great? If it's for onward connections to GNER or indeed VXC, all those stations have an hourly or better service to Leeds or Wakey Westgate, served by both GNER and VXC. As for Euston to West Yorkshire - are we trying to get into VWC's money pot now?
 

David

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Today Yorkshire Post lists Grand Centrals long term plans. These include:

A 4th daily London-Sunderland service
4 daily Bradford-London services, run independtly of the Sunderland service
An hourly Bradford-Doncaster service, calling at Halifax, Brighouse, Wakefield Kirkgate and Pontefract
A Euston-Huddersfield-Bradford service (2009/10 start date mentioned)

Speeds of 140mph are also mentioned for Bradford services
Is this before or after Grand Central is sold?
 

Max

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As for Euston to West Yorkshire - are we trying to get into VWC's money pot now?
Since we now have competition on the ECML, I cannot see why we couldn't have competition on the WCML as well. However, I can't see this happening for a very long time if ever.
 

metrocammel

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Today Yorkshire Post lists Grand Centrals long term plans. These include:

A 4th daily London-Sunderland service
4 daily Bradford-London services, run independtly of the Sunderland service
An hourly Bradford-Doncaster service, calling at Halifax, Brighouse, Wakefield Kirkgate and Pontefract
A Euston-Huddersfield-Bradford service (2009/10 start date mentioned)

Speeds of 140mph are also mentioned for Bradford services
As usual with GC, this is all talk. They haven't even got one London-Sunderland service yet, plus no rolling stock (or immediate plans to get any) despite them saying a start is immenent. I will be very surprised if they ever run any service, never mind all the above mentioned services. Plus with the company being put up for sale last week or so, it seems even more unlikely.
And just out of interest, which way do they intend to go to Hudds (at 140mph!)? There is currently no diesel loco / unit able to go at those speeds, and for that matter, no track suitable, as even the WCML's pendos are going to have to go at about 130mph due to in-train signalling being required. Also, will it go up the WCML to Stockport, then via Denton & Stalybridge? There is really no need for anymore services out of Euston though, as there are Virgin's leaving every 15 minutes or so on average to Birmingham / Manchester and beyond.
 

CallySleeper

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Speeds of 140mph are also mentioned for Bradford services
I have, ever since GC came into existance, hated them for their schemas and way of doing things. I actually laughed out loud at this one.

Just so you guys know, WCML is impossible for GC because VT secured a deal with Network Rail? that in return for upgrading the line etc they wouldn't allow other TOCs to run long distance? Something like that, it's in another thread here I think, but whatever it stated it basically stated that the authorities can't allow GC to operate on the WCML - basically VT protecting themselves from what GC are going to do to GNER on East Coast!
 

Humberside

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Just so you guys know, WCML is impossible for GC because VT secured a deal with Network Rail? that in return for upgrading the line etc they wouldn't allow other TOCs to run long distance? Something like that, it's in another thread here I think, but whatever it stated it basically stated that the authorities can't allow GC to operate on the WCML - basically VT protecting themselves from what GC are going to do to GNER on East Coast!
Wouldn't any such deal have to be with the Office of Rail Regulation? Im not sure Network Rail/Railtrack would be allowed to sign any exclusivity deal with one operator
 

LucaZone

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It was an OBVIOUS development from Grand Central. They hard part was getting in the door. Now that they have established a skelton service, they are BOUND to start introducing more.

Why do you think GNER got so upset about this?

GC are going to be fighting left right and centre to introducing services to make more profit, whether they step on other TOC toes or not. They have done it once, so their mindset will be that it can do it again.
 

voyagerdude220

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It was an OBVIOUS development from Grand Central. They hard part was getting in the door. Now that they have established a skelton service, they are BOUND to start introducing more.

Why do you think GNER got so upset about this?

GC are going to be fighting left right and centre to introducing services to make more profit, whether they step on other TOC toes or not. They have done it once, so their mindset will be that it can do it again.
*post edited*

VWC aren't making a fuss about Grand Central's plans at all on the WCML. I've seen the Upcoming Rail magazine, and would welcome additional train services along some of the WCML.
 

CallySleeper

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voyagerdude220 said:
Gner got upset about it, because they're a bunch of sh*ts IMO (from what I've heard about the issue myself)
I think this comment is a little unnecessary, if not false.

voyagerdude220 said:
VWC aren't making a fuss about Grand Central's plans at all on the WCML.
This is because they know there IS nothing to worry about - GC are legally prohibited (through the contract signed by VT) to operate on the WCML - see my previous post.
 

class 313

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Where is the proof of this HST buisness?

Im not saying i dont want HSTs but its all advertised as 222s!.

Hellfire hsts back on the WCML :D
 

voyagerdude220

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I think this comment is a little unnecessary, if not false.

This is because they know there IS nothing to worry about - GC are legally prohibited (through the contract signed by VT) to operate on the WCML - see my previous post.
I've edited my post to reflect your reply. Like i said, I was just going off what I'd been told from other people.
 

metrocammel

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Where is the proof of this HST buisness?

Im not saying i dont want HSTs but its all advertised as 222s!.

Hellfire hsts back on the WCML :D

Come on though, if GC are to start by the December date (which IMO is unlikely, if not impossible, see as it's only about 3 months or so away), how on earth will they "magically" build a fleet of plastic multiple units? The anwser is, impossible. Getting a small HST fleet together by that time (and training staff, sorting maintenance out etc) is very unlikely, but just about possible if action is taken now. If nothing is noticable done in the next couple of weeks, I am very sceptical about the December start date. We'll see though.
 

CallySleeper

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Someone on another forum is having a go at me because they are optimistic that, amongst other things, GC are going to be operating from December with 222s. There are no spare 222 sets going currently. They cannot possibly be built and have personnel trained on in 3 months. As it is, is it possible to train sufficent personnel in that time?
I do not have sufficent knowledge at this time but where are the avaiable mk3 stock and locos?

Please guys - face facts - not fiction that Grand Central are producing - or at least have *sufficent* evidence to back up the fiction, and not just crappy quotes which is virtually all I am hearing from the supporters.

He also claimes that Grand Central have said that they have written to the DfT, and proposed (amongst other things) 140mph trains for the WCML by 2009/10 and that they would like the DfT to consider withdrawing station stops from VWC so that GC can serve more places.

Draw your own conclusions ladies and gentlemen!!!
 

87015

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<snip> that they would like the DfT to consider withdrawing station stops from VWC so that GC can serve more places.
...Virgin themselves want to axe a lot of station to reduce overcrowding on their Pendo's as well as "increase performance", thats more recovery time then!
M.Keynes (already had peak service culled),Rugby,Nuneaton all in line to be replaced by Silverlink/Central or whatever only....such is "progress"!!!
Anyone offerning an alternative to Virgin is welcomed!
Arn't we getting a bit ahead of ourselves, its still a bit suspect if they are capable of running the Sunderland stuff let alone major expansions.
 
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