Great Northern Weekend Cancellations

[jon0844]

Lots of Cambridge to Kings Cross services cancelled this morning. So a couple of the Kings Lynn trains were calling at all intermediate stations to Hitchin.

A 313 from Moorgate terminated at Stevenage platform 4 this morning. When staff tried to dispatch the service back to Moorgate it became apparent that there wasn’t a driver in the train. The driver who brought the train in was now scheduled to travel to London so he left platform 4 and caught a fast train. But the other driver scheduled to take over had not arrived. So there was a 313 blocking platform 4 with no driver available to move it. The Cathedrals Express charter to Norwich was now stuck behind it as this had picked up at Hertford North so could only use platform 4 at Stevenage. A driver was found in London so arrived off a fast northbound service and took the 313 away empty. Thanks to Great Northern the charter left Stevenage 88 minutes late. It had left Hertford on time.

I bet the signaller was well chuffed that a train was left without a driver!

 

[greatkingrat]

Sounds like the driver will be in trouble as well unless there is a local instruction allowing units to be left in platform 4.

 

[bramling]

Do 387s use DOO there? If they don't open the gangways between units then people can't move up or down the train.

On a 700 it's a long walk but at least the screens make it very clear. Keep walking until there's no more red!

I forgot about the gangway ‘issue’. It certainly used to be the case that SDO was used, but that was of course pre May. Come to think of it I haven’t been on a 387 for a while - 365s or car all the way now for me!

 

[WeGoAgain]

Sounds like the driver will be in trouble as well unless there is a local instruction allowing units to be left in platform 4.

Nope S/he won't be.

 

[Failed Unit]

Maybe should have a started a new thread. But it is December and the GTR (great northern) cancellations are back. Lack of volunteers I expect.

 

[Aictos]

Maybe should have a started a new thread. But it is December and the GTR (great northern) cancellations are back. Lack of volunteers I expect.

Same on the TL, there was a number of trains you could see on RTT which ran non stop St Pancras to Harpenden which had it's final destination of Luton! I don't know why they missed out St Albans and yes I do know they have the stoppers but still!

In fact as I understand it, the driver shortage is so bad on the TL that they have had to go begging back to SE and ASLEF to source SE drivers for the TL services to Kent this is AFTER the SE depots were told they had lost the work.

No idea how bad the GN is but the TL is not good atm.

 

[387star]

Same on the TL, there was a number of trains you could see on RTT which ran non stop St Pancras to Harpenden which had it's final destination of Luton! I don't know why they missed out St Albans and yes I do know they have the stoppers but still!

In fact as I understand it, the driver shortage is so bad on the TL that they have had to go begging back to SE and ASLEF to source SE drivers for the TL services to Kent this is AFTER the SE depots were told they had lost the work.

No idea how bad the GN is but the TL is not good atm.

Surprised

Huge numbers of trainees have been recruited in the last few years

Of course there's still the embarrassment of Ashford depot having been open two years now with cambridge work nowhere in sight so factor in travelling time to sevenoaks for those driver's turns

Maybe explains why Kentish town to Orpington does not run Saturdays and the sevenoaks to welwyn peak service has not started

I thought southeastern drivers drove 700s and 319s before that but maybe that's ceased

 

[Aictos]

Surprised

Huge numbers of trainees have been recruited in the last few years

Yes but you could recruit 500 new trainee drivers but if you don't have enough driver instructors, you likely will only get 300 or so trainees passed out meaning that you're still short staffed until you can get the other 200 trainees passed out.

This is why both the GN and the TL are royally screwed with shortage of drivers not forgetting that some drivers can only drive Class 700/0s while some can drive both 700/0s and 700/1s and before anyone doubts that, I was on a 12 car a few weeks ago and the driver who was meant to take the service on was heard to say oh I can't take that train forward as I'm only cleared to drive 700/0s hence why both the GN and the TL are screwed.

 

[387star]

Yes but you could recruit 500 new trainee drivers but if you don't have enough driver instructors, you likely will only get 300 or so trainees passed out meaning that you're still short staffed until you can get the other 200 trainees passed out.

This is why both the GN and the TL are royally screwed with shortage of drivers not forgetting that some drivers can only drive Class 700/0s while some can drive both 700/0s and 700/1s and before anyone doubts that, I was on a 12 car a few weeks ago and the driver who was meant to take the service on was heard to say oh I can't take that train forward as I'm only cleared to drive 700/0s hence why both the GN and the TL are screwed.

Yes it's true some trainees were training for over two years waiting a DI for six months plus or having their training delayed due to not signing the class 700s

Some GN drivers had to assist 717s through the tunnel into moorgate during the signalling sighting drama

It was a complete farce

The timetable was laughable no-one on the ground expected it to work.

Take Horsham Drivers in May 18...

Did not sign AC traction
Did not sign South London diversions
Did not sign the Thameslink Core
Did not sign Three Bridges Depot
Did not sign north of Finsbury Park

 

[387star]

I think some trainees were placed with SE drivers and driving 375s with guards so are learning their routes post qualified

 

[Hadders]

None of these issues are new. GTR told us FIVE AND A HALF YEARS AGO that they have the largest driver recruitment programme in the history of the railway.

When will the driver shortage ever end?

 

[Aictos]

Yes it's true some trainees were training for over two years waiting a DI for six months plus or having their training delayed due to not signing the class 700s

Some GN drivers had to assist 717s through the tunnel into moorgate during the signalling sighting drama

It was a complete farce

The timetable was laughable no-one on the ground expected it to work.

Take Horsham Drivers in May 18...

Did not sign AC traction
Did not sign South London diversions
Did not sign the Thameslink Core
Did not sign Three Bridges Depot
Did not sign north of Finsbury Park

Yup and it's even worse with certain depots only signing 700/0s while others sign both types which I don't know why but it seems to be a backwards step, I await someone to come along to explain why this is....

None of these issues are new. GTR told us FIVE AND A HALF YEARS AGO that they have the largest driver recruitment programme in the history of the railway.

When will the driver shortage ever end?

Correct me if I'm wrong but never as it doesn't matter how many drivers they train up if drivers then decide to go to another TOC or retire, there will always be a shortage of drivers.

Apologies for the glass half empty view but that's my view.

 

[Hadders]

Correct me if I'm wrong but never as it doesn't matter how many drivers they train up if drivers then decide to go to another TOC or retire, there will always be a shortage of drivers.

Apologies for the glass half empty view but that's my view.

None of this is the concern of passengers who have suffered these excessive cancellations for over five years.

 

[Aictos]

None of this is the concern of passengers who have suffered these excessive cancellations for over five years.

I know but I’m just saying it’s unlikely to get better any time soon especially as there’s always been shortage of drivers.

 

[choochoochoo]

Yes but you could recruit 500 new trainee drivers but if you don't have enough driver instructors, you likely will only get 300 or so trainees passed out meaning that you're still short staffed until you can get the other 200 trainees passed out.

This is why both the GN and the TL are royally screwed with shortage of drivers not forgetting that some drivers can only drive Class 700/0s while some can drive both 700/0s and 700/1s and before anyone doubts that, I was on a 12 car a few weeks ago and the driver who was meant to take the service on was heard to say oh I can't take that train forward as I'm only cleared to drive 700/0s hence why both the GN and the TL are screwed.

Wow. Really ?

I can't tell the difference between driving a 700/0 and a 700/1. Other than having to be wary of the platform stopping points. I don't even recall a difference being noted on the competencies on your licence. Obviously there are physical differences, but these don't affect the way you drive one from the other. Or that's what they taught me when I learnt them.

To me it's like saying i can only drive a 3 car 313 but not a 6 car.

 

[LowLevel]

Wow. Really ?

I can't tell the difference between driving a 700/0 and a 700/1. Other than having to be wary of the platform stopping points. I don't even recall a difference being noted on the competencies on your licence. Obviously there are physical differences, but these don't affect the way you drive one from the other. Or that's what they taught me when I learnt them.

To me it's like saying i can only drive a 3 car 313 but not a 6 car.

Isn't that something to do with South Eastern drivers not being passed for 12 car DOO dispatch?

 

[Failed Unit]

Wow. Really ?

I can't tell the difference between driving a 700/0 and a 700/1. Other than having to be wary of the platform stopping points. I don't even recall a difference being noted on the competencies on your licence. Obviously there are physical differences, but these don't affect the way you drive one from the other. Or that's what they taught me when I learnt them.

To me it's like saying i can only drive a 3 car 313 but not a 6 car.

Not disputing what you are saying - but yesterday I was on 2210 Stevenage - Welwyn Garden City (Ex Cambridge) - Apologies that due to shortage of drivers it would be 12 car vice 8.

So it wasn't because the driver in questions was only cleared to drive 12 car trains

(I know it wasn't but it was just an odd reason for us to get a 12 car train, the preceeding one I wanted was cancelled but GTR have never increase train lengths because of cancellations in the past so I can't seem them starting now when you need SDO)

On that last point - do you need separate training to use SDO?

 

[choochoochoo]

Isn't that something to do with South Eastern drivers not being passed for 12 car DOO dispatch?

Don't you just needed better eyesight to see the smaller DOO monitor images on 12 car DOO ?

 

[choochoochoo]

On that last point - do you need separate training to use SDO?

Think SDO is standard syllabus when you learn the traction.

 

[Aictos]

Wow. Really ?

I can't tell the difference between driving a 700/0 and a 700/1. Other than having to be wary of the platform stopping points. I don't even recall a difference being noted on the competencies on your licence. Obviously there are physical differences, but these don't affect the way you drive one from the other. Or that's what they taught me when I learnt them.

To me it's like saying i can only drive a 3 car 313 but not a 6 car.

Yes I am being serious, I’ve heard that certain depots only sign Class 700/0s while some sign both 700/0s and 700/1s.

A few weeks ago I was reliably informed that a 12 car was diagramed to have a crew change at Luton, only problem? The relief driver for whatever reason was unable to take it on as and I quote I only sign 8 cars! So the service was cancelled and operated as a special back to Bedford.

I don’t know the reasoning but it does happen.

 

[Traintobe]

This is only the case for the southeastern drivers I believe, they dont sign the 12 cars due to the size of the screens on the monitor's, obviously this wont be an issue from next week as southeastern will no longer be driving our trains.

 

[Aictos]

This is only the case for the southeastern drivers I believe, they dont sign the 12 cars due to the size of the screens on the monitor's, obviously this wont be an issue from next week as southeastern will no longer be driving our trains.

Sure about SE no longer driving the 700s from next week?

My sources from SE have explained that originally the plan was for them to lose the work but there’s been a last minute change and SE drivers will have the 700s on their traction card for another 12 months minimum.

 

[Traintobe]

Possibly, last I heard was that aslef said once the traction leaves the depot, which it has, they no longer sign it, but maybe they've been asked to keep it to help cover uncovered turns

 

[Aictos]

Possibly, last I heard was that aslef said once the traction leaves the depot, which it has, they no longer sign it, but maybe they've been asked to keep it to help cover uncovered turns

I don’t know what is happening in 12 months time but the reason for SE drivers being begged by TL is simply because there’s a shortage of TL Driver Instructors eg not enough driver instructors for the number of trainees in the system.

 

[Traintobe]

This is true and has been the case for a while, with trainees having DIs from other depots, but most of these are now passing out and all will be pretty much done within the next month or 2

 

[choochoochoo]

This is true and has been the case for a while, with trainees having DIs from other depots, but most of these are now passing out and all will be pretty much done within the next month or 2

But aren't they're passing out on routes they won't drive at their depot, or very short sections of route that mean they can't do a complete diagram. So they're not very productive.

 

[Economist]

Surely it's not too difficult to plan it all:

"We're going to need a few hundred drivers".
"OK, so what will we need to in order to recruit these drivers?".
"Right, so we'll need some extra DIs, DMs, Trainer/Assessors, might need a LOM or two, some more Personnel people and some more classroom space".
"Let's recruit all those extra people now so that we have everything in place for the trainees, we'll probably be short a few more drivers in the meantime, perhaps we can get another TOC to cover a bit of our work whilst we get it all in place, maybe we could also poach a few from other TOCs".
"Yeah, that sounds like a good plan, let's get to work".

With the amount of money that's being dished out, I don't see GTR having being serious retention problems unlike one or two other places, so I don't see where all the shortages are coming from.

 

[MikeWM]

Large slate of cancellations today - what a surprise, on the Saturday before Christmas...

The GN website is using the rather convenient excuse of ‘heavy rain’ rather than attributing their own uselessness, of course.

 

[717001]

Large slate of cancellations today - what a surprise, on the Saturday before Christmas...

The GN website is using the rather convenient excuse of ‘heavy rain’ rather than attributing their own uselessness, of course.

It may look worse than it is. Moorgate is closed for planned engineering and the trains are rescheduled to go to/from Kings Cross. Some sources are showing the Moorgate ones as cancelled “CAN” and the replacements separately as “STP”

 

[Aictos]

Large slate of cancellations today - what a surprise, on the Saturday before Christmas...

The GN website is using the rather convenient excuse of ‘heavy rain’ rather than attributing their own uselessness, of course.

Hardly any cancellations on the TL that I can see, well nothing as bad as the GN!