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Greater Anglia Rolling Stock Updates
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robreed90001
Member
any ideas what this is likely to be providing it runs?
http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/H38057/2018/11/08/advanced
http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/H38057/2018/11/08/advanced
Class 170101
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Probably Stadler units coming via Channel Tunnel and HS1 then via Barking
dk1
Veteran Member
I think that was something to do with the DfT as 2+2 would be a loss of peak seating capacity into Liverpool St over that now offered by the current fleet.
class387
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Thameslink was (wrongly) designed for maximum standing space, while the 720s were designed so that as many people as possible could get a seat.
It is not possible to have 5 proper seats across with the narrow British loading gauge.
And what about the new SWR trains?
59CosG95
Established Member
Depends on how wide the seat is. I'm currently sitting in a WMR 323, which has 2 seats, a very small gap, and then 3 more seats.
59CosG95
Established Member
Depends on how wide the seat is. I'm currently sitting in a WMR 323, which has 2 seats, a very small gap, and then 3 more seats.
class387
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I agree, but surely an uncomfortable seat is better than no seat at all. The 700s have the seats at 2+3 spacing anyway and are of an inferior design.
The 701s are also designed as inner suburban trains to carry as many people as possible.
The 700s should have wider seats and it is necessary to place one buttock off the seat to avoid touching the person by the window. But with 3+2 seats, it is impossible to sit in the middle without touching your neighbours unless you are all very slim. I refuse to have people sitting in the middle seat next to me as that would be inappropriately intimate. So the middle seat is pointless anyway and you lose standing and walking space.
306024
Established Member
All the passenger research in Anglia land shows getting a seat is not surprisingly very important to passengers. Current and predicted demand into Liverpool St means 3+2 is inevitable.
Obviously people will say they want a seat. If you asked a Tube passenger if they wanted a seat then they will say yes. So by that logic we would rebuild Tube trains with more seats. 3+2 seating without the middle seat is still only 4 seats. The middle "seat" is not really a seat.
Wivenswold
Established Member
The A12 corridor is highly populated and aside from the railway the transport infrastructure in Essex is pretty shabby. The roads and railways are at capacity.
The reason for such growth is that Essex is on the cheap side of London, traditionally housing for the rich will be found on the west side of cities in the UK, this dates from the Industrial Revolution, our prevailing weather comes from the South West, so in order to avoid their homes being covered in soot and smoke from the town's industrial areas, the well off would live in the fresher air on the SW side of town. Anyway, that's why to this day the East of London and Essex have smaller, more affordable properties and are less fashionable. The result is that commuters find Essex to be a good value place to live. It's the ripple effect caused by soaring property prices in the centre of London.
The net result is that the GEML and the A12 can't cope with demand and GA can't justify charging £3k pa to commuters in, for example, Chelmsford if they never get a seat. So 3+2 seating is essential.
The reason for such growth is that Essex is on the cheap side of London, traditionally housing for the rich will be found on the west side of cities in the UK, this dates from the Industrial Revolution, our prevailing weather comes from the South West, so in order to avoid their homes being covered in soot and smoke from the town's industrial areas, the well off would live in the fresher air on the SW side of town. Anyway, that's why to this day the East of London and Essex have smaller, more affordable properties and are less fashionable. The result is that commuters find Essex to be a good value place to live. It's the ripple effect caused by soaring property prices in the centre of London.
The net result is that the GEML and the A12 can't cope with demand and GA can't justify charging £3k pa to commuters in, for example, Chelmsford if they never get a seat. So 3+2 seating is essential.
samuelmorris
Established Member
I don't like them either but to say they don't count as a seat is false. They are often used, not all of them, but certainly a fair proportion of them. I'm pretty confident if they weren't there, you'd have a lot more people standing. For the reasons stated above, the DfT went nuts about seating capacity in this franchise and that's what the rolling stock was specified to do - absolute maximum seating capacity, hence bigger units, 3+2 seating, longer door spacing, removal of first class etc. and preserving separate stock for the longest route to Norwich and the Stansted Express to everything else coming out of London.
But other commuter lines are similarly expensive and crowded. I'm not sure what is different here?
How do you stop someone sitting next to you?
Mordac
Established Member
Probably "manspreading."
samuelmorris
Established Member
There's no real need to manspread, plenty of people simply don't fit in seats that width, but even when the remaining gap is far smaller than any normal person, people will still try and squeeze into it, such is the desire to be seated, even on a journey 30 minutes or less.
Mordac
Established Member
In my experience on 350/2, the vast majority of people can squeeze in if they want, but they're too selfish for that, even if the train is rammed. If I'd had a particularly bad day, I'd ask them if they'd bought one and a half ticket to cover for the half of my seat they were taking.
Sure, we all know 2+3 is not the most comfortable set up, but if there's a little civility, 95% of people can manage it while only being minimally uncomfortable. The problem is some self-entitled pricks would rather make someone else more uncomfortable so they can spread out.
samuelmorris
Established Member
Perhaps but then there's also the opposite effect, people that notice you're up against the divide between the two seats and demand you move over to avoid taking up space they don't actually need, as has happened to me in the past.
First I say, "there's no room", but if he insists then I have to give up my seat and stand.
dk1
Veteran Member
Obviously got them but it's how many?
dk1
Veteran Member
The original plans meant the 1st class punters on 745/0 units had to walk past the bistro bar into standard class to have a wee.
Some happy punters in Chelmsford now if it were £3k pa to London. Looks like it will go through £4k for the first time with the rise in Jan. Rest of your post is spot-on!
Generally, in a set of 6 seats people tend to sit diagonal to each other so 2 people will be on one side and one person in the middle on the other. This is comfortable as everyone has space and legroom. In peak times, all seats are regularly filled from my observation on SWRs 450s except for a few next to selfish people that will purposely spread their legs as wide as possible or put their bags down. If you're genuinely significantly larger then that's not being selfish but the amount of people I've seen say "no room" when really they just expect to travel peak time on public transport without (oh horror) rubbing shoulders with somebody or (god forbid) touching legs.
Your rarely gonna get a built man trying to sit in the middle of two other men, it will usually be petite women they deny the seat to that could probably fit.
Don't sit yourself if your not gonna let someone sit next to you.
Your rarely gonna get a built man trying to sit in the middle of two other men, it will usually be petite women they deny the seat to that could probably fit.
Don't sit yourself if your not gonna let someone sit next to you.
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