The ideal solution would be 2tph on Sunday (all day) with 8 car services from PBO. That would relieve a lot of pressure from the 4 car services, where many users aren't going north of Stevenage or Hitchin anyway.
-
Our booking engine at tickets.railforums.co.uk (powered by TrainSplit) helps support the running of the forum with every ticket purchase! Find out more and ask any questions/give us feedback in this thread!
GTR to be stripped of franchise? DfT to take over according to RBI
- Thread starter SA_900
- Start date
- Status
Sponsor Post - registered members do not see these adverts; click here to register, or click here to log in
R
RailUK Forums
Class 170101
Established Member
- Joined
- 1 Mar 2014
- Messages
- 7,959
Thats clever. With both West Anglia and GE blocked to Liverpool Street! Anyone near a GN station (eg Royston for Whittlesford) or towards Norwich and North and East thereof will want to head by train into Kings Cross and avoid the Rail Replacement buses will probably find trains very crowded (if they can board at all).
As stated there engineering works going on. But there's also a "BBQ Sunday" today. I'm not sure what the specific beef is though as I seem to have missed that bit and don't work Sundays anyway.
Failed Unit
Established Member
Must admit great northern isn't as bad as I expected.
Havent seen a 387 on the services that stop at the villages. The 317 going in was comfortable but not over crowded. 365 on my return is standing but comfortable not loaded to 387 standards.
The x52s seem to be all 8 cars.
Havent seen a 387 on the services that stop at the villages. The 317 going in was comfortable but not over crowded. 365 on my return is standing but comfortable not loaded to 387 standards.
The x52s seem to be all 8 cars.
AndyY
Member
I had to travel to Central London today so went to my local station at around 12:30, fully expecting the hourly service to be packed and not being able to get on, and then having to get a taxi to Edgware. However, when it came, there was hardly anybody standing and seats were still available! Perhaps people got scared of the news and decided to stay put rather than travel?
It must be a 12 carriage train because at Cricklewood (which has short platform), the doors in the last few carriages did not open. Anyway I am sure that all the people can comfortably fit into 8 carriages, or even squeeze into 4.
Thameslink seems to be making the best out of a bad situation (manage expectations, and then put on a long train to carry as many as possible).
I am pleased to say that services since new year have improved compared to end of last year - I was only delayed for >15 minutes on 2 occasions. Last November, I remember being severely at least twice a week on average.
Also, I am slightly surprised that they are having problems with staffing level at this time of year. Credit card statements are starting to arrive after the Christmas period, and I would think many people would want to work overtime to get some extra money? I certainly would, if my job paid overtime!
Anyway, this thread seems to have drifted away from the original topic! I think the government will never take over the franchise as they currently have a very convenient scapegoat to blame whenever something goes wrong.
It must be a 12 carriage train because at Cricklewood (which has short platform), the doors in the last few carriages did not open. Anyway I am sure that all the people can comfortably fit into 8 carriages, or even squeeze into 4.
Thameslink seems to be making the best out of a bad situation (manage expectations, and then put on a long train to carry as many as possible).
I am pleased to say that services since new year have improved compared to end of last year - I was only delayed for >15 minutes on 2 occasions. Last November, I remember being severely at least twice a week on average.
Also, I am slightly surprised that they are having problems with staffing level at this time of year. Credit card statements are starting to arrive after the Christmas period, and I would think many people would want to work overtime to get some extra money? I certainly would, if my job paid overtime!
Anyway, this thread seems to have drifted away from the original topic! I think the government will never take over the franchise as they currently have a very convenient scapegoat to blame whenever something goes wrong.
Last edited:
Maybe the fact a lot of people avoid travel on GTR at weekends at the best of times, a lot of people thought 'sod it' and stayed home today.
Robertj21a
On Moderation
- Joined
- 22 Sep 2013
- Messages
- 7,520
Aren't they on an overtime ban ? - or is that Southern (or someone else entirely, I'm getting lost !)
MrCub
Member
Pictures appearing online show chaos now at St Pancras. I travelled through earlier and it was busy but fine, and the EMT service was fine. Apparently now it is chaos and over crowded.
ChiefPlanner
Established Member
Yes the weather is awful , but a 1 tph service is not what one would expect for a World Class City.
I took Great Northern from Stevenage to London and back this afternoon. No problem with train loadings either was (I was on the 1304 from Stevenage and 1822 return). Both 8-car services (which is normal anyway).
Walked through St Pancras - was busy and plenty of staff by the closed Thameslink entrance telling passengers how to get to Gatwick. I wonder what arrangements wer in place for 'Not Underground' tickets between St Pancras and Gatwick.
Walked through St Pancras - was busy and plenty of staff by the closed Thameslink entrance telling passengers how to get to Gatwick. I wonder what arrangements wer in place for 'Not Underground' tickets between St Pancras and Gatwick.
Just southern
tsr
Established Member
Not for the time being. All ASLEF industrial action is currently suspended.
asylumxl
Established Member
Do you have any links?
Kite159
Veteran Member
The 09:18 Bedford yesterday was mostly empty from St Pancras, the next inbound working had empty seats available a few people standing.
When at St Pancras around 10:00-ish it did look like a few passengers waiting but they could have easily have been waiting for the next EMT departure rather than the Bedford service.
Revenue check to board and to exit the station, either tickets or for passengers to touch the Oyster readers. I would imagine the EMT services would have been busier with passengers for Luton/Bedford
When at St Pancras around 10:00-ish it did look like a few passengers waiting but they could have easily have been waiting for the next EMT departure rather than the Bedford service.
Revenue check to board and to exit the station, either tickets or for passengers to touch the Oyster readers. I would imagine the EMT services would have been busier with passengers for Luton/Bedford
Class377/5
Established Member
- Joined
- 19 Jun 2010
- Messages
- 5,594
The DfT monitor short forms quite closely.
Class377/5
Established Member
- Joined
- 19 Jun 2010
- Messages
- 5,594
Plan was to only use 12 car 700 to provide the most available capacity possible.
Southern drivers did have an overtime ban but that's now ended while talks take place.
Thameslink drivers have never had an overtime ban at the present point.
very very quiet on the ASLEF meetings etc etc and nothing from the dept of transport......
Rumour going around that indeed Southern will be ripped away from GTR soon and be govt run until it is refranchised out and that is why these talks are taking so long.
Other rumour is that pay talks are also on the agenda during these meetings and that is why it is taking so long. The chance that the inevitable death of the guards role that drivers may get a hefty payrise.
Rumour going around that indeed Southern will be ripped away from GTR soon and be govt run until it is refranchised out and that is why these talks are taking so long.
Other rumour is that pay talks are also on the agenda during these meetings and that is why it is taking so long. The chance that the inevitable death of the guards role that drivers may get a hefty payrise.
Weren't pay talks meant to have happened but didn't at some point last autumn hence I'd be very surprised if pay and DOO weren't linked in the current talks...
Are we talking Southern being extracted from the TSGN franchise, leaving the other brands with GTR? Or are we talking about GTR losing the TSGN franchise?
Southern being extracted from GTR with GoVia retaining GN and TL...... like i said just rumours...
yep the last pay deal was due in october 2016. delayed obviously by the industrial action.......
if pay does become part of a deal it will have to announced at a later date as otherwise it will look like ASLEF have sold guards down the river!
Class377/5
Established Member
- Joined
- 19 Jun 2010
- Messages
- 5,594
The choices are
* leave things as they are
* transfer Southern (in part of full with possibly leaving the future TL routes with GTR) to a new 'TOC' under direct DfT control
* transfer all of GTR to the new 'TOC' under direct DfT control
The plans have gotten so far the press have the name of the new MD of this 'TOC'.
have heard the c2c MD being mentioned?
Class377/5
Established Member
- Joined
- 19 Jun 2010
- Messages
- 5,594
Honestly I've not heard that detail but who knows.
Deepgreen
Established Member
And? Don't keep us in suspense!
Class377/5
Established Member
- Joined
- 19 Jun 2010
- Messages
- 5,594
Try Reading my post where I say I don't know. Railway press have stated they know but no names given out.
With the pay element would obviously have national implicatons for other DOO so would take quite a lot of work to get something that would get approval from all sides.
Option 2 looks tricky unless a "new" southern provide all the trains till 700s take over on those routes. Drivers and potential transfer is sightly messy as it may not fit in with existing GTR plans. But with more certainty of date ranges for transfer to 700 operation as well as far more certainty infrastructure being available on time it looks far more do-able that it would have been is contemplated with keeping both separate and transferring between the 2 as an alternative to a giant franchise when potential franchise options were originally evaluated 5-6 years ago.
Last edited:
Are GTR only in breach of their franchise obligations in respect of Southern and possibly Gatwick Express? Are they meeting their performance targets on Thameslink and Great Northern?
Also if Southern was split off, what would happen to Gatwick Express? Would they go as well? It might be argued they are as much Southern as Thameslink are, given they are both part of one company that has four brands.
Also if Southern was split off, what would happen to Gatwick Express? Would they go as well? It might be argued they are as much Southern as Thameslink are, given they are both part of one company that has four brands.
Last edited:
- Status