Guards during strikes

[Robertj21a]

Isn't National Express a service provided by 45-50 seater coaches which can sell out if you don't book far enough in advance?

It's certainly a coach service !. As far as I know they will put extras out on key services when there is sufficient demand.

 

[Bletchleyite]

It's certainly a coach service !. As far as I know they will put extras out on key services when there is sufficient demand.

Indeed. While it's *technically* the case that when it's full it's full, they are rather good at managing capacity by swapping vehicles around and adding hired-in extras (they are also good at doing this when traffic issues hit them to minimise delays). While I haven't used it often, I don't believe I have ever been unable to book onto the service I wanted.

They also pay attention to special events and situations (e.g. sports events, rail strikes) and target capacity increases to that in order to make more money. Something the railway is utterly terrible at doing, with notable exceptions (e.g. Chiltern for Wembley).

 

[387star]

Have West Mids new owners pledged to keep guards ?

 

[AlterEgo]

My opinion has nothing to do with it, and we are talking about wannabe guards breaking strikes, not a guard on a normal day doing his/her normal daily work.

Which raises another question If all these people can be guards on strike days who is doing there job on that day? If no one is doing begs the question as to their own importance in keeping the railway running on a day to day basis. Lets get rid of them as well.

Not that many of them want to be Guards - indeed many will have bypassed that Grade and are management.

I’d be careful of the supposition that if someone is absent from work for one day then they are replaceable...!

 

[Robertj21a]

Do you think that passengers should also strike on strike days?!? Surely if using the railway is the most convenient option they should still use it? What planet are you on ?!? Seriously!!!!!!

The query was 'how do I walk from Brighton to work in London on a strike day' - what's the point of your rather ridiculous response ?

 

[Lemmy99uk]

My workload is time-critical in two-week cycles (excluding unscheduled emergencies). Therefore, when I was on strike for 3 days a few years ago I had a backlog of 3 days work that I had to catch up on in my own time. I expect it's a similar situation for these "guards" - they'll simply have to catch up on their workload, no doubt with no overtime as managers in most organisations are generally "required to work the hours that a job takes".

As I understand it, most of the TOCs allow the managers to claim overtime during the disputes so that ther normal work can still be accommodated.

 

[MartinB1]

The query was 'how do I walk from Brighton to work in London on a strike day' - what's the point of your rather ridiculous response ?

The point is the persistence in this thread that passengers shouldn't use the trains on a strike day!

 

[furnessvale]

The point is the persistence in this thread that passengers shouldn't use the trains on a strike day!

The point most people seem to overlook, is that outside the core London rush hour, too much disruption only encourages passengers not to use the railway on all the non strike days as well!

 

[Robertj21a]

The point is the persistence in this thread that passengers shouldn't use the trains on a strike day!

To me, as an ordinary passenger (not commuter), I wouldn't bother using a train if I'm told there's a strike. I might catch a bus/coach, or use a car, but I won't be attempting a train trip where my plans can be upset at any time.

 

[MartinB1]

The point is the persistence in this thread that passengers shouldn't use the trains on a strike day!

Unfortunately you are probably right. It's just extraordinary the implication that out of principle people should avoid the railway on a strike day.

Whoops, I didn't mean this as a reply to my own comment. However I do agree with myself

 

[MartinB1]

To me, as an ordinary passenger (not commuter), I wouldn't bother using a train if I'm told there's a strike. I might catch a bus/coach, or use a car, but I won't be attempting a train trip where my plans can be upset at any time.

This I can understand of course, maybe I am completely wrong however I read an implication that out of principle people should avoid the railway on a strike day. I personally agree with the current strike action, however the brainless militant mentality I can not abide by. As I said it's possible that I'm imagining this implication within the thread.

 

[pemma]

To me, as an ordinary passenger (not commuter), I wouldn't bother using a train if I'm told there's a strike. I might catch a bus/coach, or use a car, but I won't be attempting a train trip where my plans can be upset at any time.

Not sure what it's like in SWR land but in Northern land there's places where the only public transport link is a Northern train service. If you don't have access to a car and avoid the train then you can only travel as far as you can walk/cycle.

 

[BML247]

Is National Express not running ?

Probably was but if you take my post in the context of the post i was quoting then i was being told i should walk to work on a strike day to show solidarity with those on strike.

 

[MartinB1]

Not sure what it's like in SWR land but in Northern land there's places where the only public transport link is a Northern train service. If you don't have access to a car and avoid the train then you can only travel as far as you can walk/cycle.

Well here you can get locally by public transport, however the roads/busses are generally ridiculously busy. Personally if it's possible to get the train that's what I'd do (if I was unable to travel door to door with my own car).

 

[MartinB1]

Probably was but if you take my post in the context of the post i was quoting then i was being told i should walk to work on a strike day to show solidarity with those on strike.

This is how interpreted it also

 

[hooverboy]

It's certainly a coach service !. As far as I know they will put extras out on key services when there is sufficient demand.

to be honest I'm not at all impressed with national express.I've found them to be most unreliable.
granted they have the lottery of the M25 to contend with,but they are also very inflexible...should you miss a connection,for instance by flight delay, they usually get quite @rsey about not having the correct ticket for the specified service which you missed through no fault of your own.

would also say that gripe extends to the TOC's advance tickets.

 

[Goldfish62]

As I understand it, most of the TOCs allow the managers to claim overtime during the disputes so that ther normal work can still be accommodated.

They clearly treat their managers better than a lot of places, then!

 

[furnessvale]

to be honest I'm not at all impressed with national express.I've found them to be most unreliable.
granted they have the lottery of the M25 to contend with,but they are also very inflexible...should you miss a connection,for instance by flight delay, they usually get quite @rsey about not having the correct ticket for the specified service which you missed through no fault of your own.

would also say that gripe extends to the TOC's advance tickets.

Unless the fault is theirs, why should any transport operator cover such circumstances?
Any joy with Ryanair?

 

[bb21]

They clearly treat their managers better than a lot of places, then!

Very much depends on the grade.

And to answer the question asked upthread by someone, workload gets distributed amongst those still left in the office if possible, and everyone has to work more. If not possible then one'll have to catch up himself, unlike a guard after being absent for a day. Most won't get overtime for the additional hours worked, unlike a guard.

I very much have sympathy for the guards' cause but some of the rhetoric in this thread is not doing the cause any favours.

 

[Andyh82]

Are the "managers" acting as guards, really all managers, or just any office based staff?

I know the RMT likes to use the term "manager" all the time with the associated disgust at such a person who becomes management.

 

[philthetube]

to be honest I'm not at all impressed with national express.I've found them to be most unreliable.
granted they have the lottery of the M25 to contend with,but they are also very inflexible...should you miss a connection,for instance by flight delay, they usually get quite @rsey about not having the correct ticket for the specified service which you missed through no fault of your own.

would also say that gripe extends to the TOC's advance tickets.

If following coaches are, if they exist, full then there is not a lot they can do.

 

[sirjojo]

My opinion has nothing to do with it, and we are talking about wannabe guards breaking strikes, not a guard on a normal day doing his/her normal daily work.

Which raises another question If all these people can be guards on strike days who is doing there job on that day? If no one is doing begs the question as to their own importance in keeping the railway running on a day to day basis. Lets get rid of them as well.

"wannabe guards breaking strikes" i very much doubt they want to be guards, i would assume that management grades are higher paid with more social hours, and i also think they wouldn't have had much choice in covering the 2 days. And they are not on strike, so how could they be breaking one?
the "guards" i encountered over the 2 days were more visible and proactive than what i usually get, the attitude from some guards on here that what they do is so highly skilled and couldn't possibly be done by "low life management who know nothing" is frankly laughable, and the way the trains ran pretty much flawlessly, with as you say minimal training, during the 2 days raises the question, do we actually need guards with all these "competencies"?

 

[PudseyBearHST]

"wannabe guards breaking strikes" i very much doubt they want to be guards, i would assume that management grades are higher paid with more social hours, and i also think they wouldn't have had much choice in covering the 2 days. And they are not on strike, so how could they be breaking one?
the "guards" i encountered over the 2 days were more visible and proactive than what i usually get, the attitude from some guards on here that what they do is so highly skilled and couldn't possibly be done by "low life management who know nothing" is frankly laughable, and the way the trains ran pretty much flawlessly, with as you say minimal training, during the 2 days raises the question, do we actually need guards with all these "competencies"?

Bizarrely, I know of at least one manager at SWR who became a Commercial Guard. Normally to be a Commercial Guard at London Waterloo, you have to become a Guard first even if you are internal but he somehow managed to go straight into a Commercial Guard. Obviously depending on what type/level manager they are will determine the salary but you have to remember that managers don't get over time which is why even though their basic maybe a bit higher, there are plenty of ticket office staff and Commercial Guards who can earn higher after including things like overtime, commission, etc... This particular Manager preferred Commercial Guard as he said that he can get similar, if not more, money and there is less stress as a Guard than a manager. I've also heard managers going to Trainee driver positions too.

Of course, I am not agreeing or suggesting that managers are wannebe guards or drivers as most are happy in management.

 

[tsr]

I’ve known quite a few railway managers (mainly but not always crew-related managers) at various grades of seniority who have left their posts in order to drive trains. As posted above, often it is to reduce stress of HR related activities.

I have, however, as far as I remember, only known about a tiny handful who have gone to any form of conductor/guard grade. Generally, it seems, the job stability isn’t good enough to be appealling nowadays.

As for managers working as guards during strike days - it must be remembered that some managers will have kept their guard/conductor licences after moving on from doing that job full time. Others may be assessors or crew line managers who need the full competencies for their day-to-day roles. But there are obviously going to be less experienced people as well, and it’s only right to scrutinise training on that front. From my observations, back office staff of all sorts have been known to step in, not just “managers” in the traditional sense.

The railway does not always run swimmingly when contingency staff are running the show. When they do make errors, or if there is an incident out of their control, the system can quickly collapse - I’ve seen it happen - and there may also be a distinct lack of spare crew to fall back on, to run the rest of the service.

 

[WessexCS]

As I understand it, most of the TOCs allow the managers to claim overtime during the disputes so that ther normal work can still be accommodated.

From personal experience, I can confirm that is not the case. During this week's dispute with the RMT, a lot of managers (many who earn a lot less than full-time guards) put their day job on hold to do what we who work in the railway are for; to deliver a train service for our customers. I know many of the SWR managers who will be catching up on work this weekend after being away from their desks on Wednesday and Thursday - I think they did a sterling job and those customers who could still get to work etc; I imagine feel the same

 

[pompeyfan]

From what I understand, commercial guards get a better basic salary at SWR than their managers, but in general managers have a better social life except for when they’re on call.

It’s worth pointing out to a lot of people two things;

A) on revenue routes its much easier to get through a train and be proactive without doing revenue duties, so it will appear that these people used as guards (PUGs) are much more visible, when in actual fact that’s probably not the case.

B) office based staff probably haven’t worked many trains, it’s novel to them to be intergrating with the traveling public, they’re nervous, excited, the whole experience is brand new to them. They’re going to want to go the extra mile because they’re eager. Normal guards don’t have that novelty, they do it day in and day out, they develop routines of how to work certain services groups with certain formations. Some are better than others and that goes across all depots. In an ideal world all guards would be running up and down a train like it was their 2nd week on the job. Sadly there is too much of a culture of doing just enough to keep their heads below managements watch rather. Anyone who actively patrols their trains regularly gets labelled as a ticket monster, it’s seen as uncool to make a difference to the passengers, whether that’s meeting them, making their day better, or relieving them of a couple of £££....

There are, however, some very good guards, who are diligent in what they do, and make an effort, sadly their efforts are often overlooked. I’ve noticed as well that sadly, the most vocal on the union front (save the guard etc) seem the be the more lazy ones.....

I appreciate that my comments above may draw flak from traincrew, but deep down, a lot will know it to be true.

 

[father_jack]

they’re nervous, excited, the whole experience is brand new to them.

And they open doors on the wrong side (Redhill) and despatch against red and don't tell the signaller (Wimbledon)....

 

[pemma]

And they open doors on the wrong side (Redhill)

Wasn't that the one there were conflicting reports about, with some saying the RMT used an incident one of their own members was guilty of the day before?

 

[pemma]

Are the "managers" acting as guards, really all managers, or just any office based staff?

I know the RMT likes to use the term "manager" all the time with the associated disgust at such a person who becomes management.

One observation related to that - you can have an Account Manager or a Website Manager who isn't really a manager at all and I imagine there's lots of other job titles where it applies.

 

[Dieseldriver]

From what I understand, commercial guards get a better basic salary at SWR than their managers, but in general managers have a better social life except for when they’re on call.

It’s worth pointing out to a lot of people two things;

A) on revenue routes its much easier to get through a train and be proactive without doing revenue duties, so it will appear that these people used as guards (PUGs) are much more visible, when in actual fact that’s probably not the case.

B) office based staff probably haven’t worked many trains, it’s novel to them to be intergrating with the traveling public, they’re nervous, excited, the whole experience is brand new to them. They’re going to want to go the extra mile because they’re eager. Normal guards don’t have that novelty, they do it day in and day out, they develop routines of how to work certain services groups with certain formations. Some are better than others and that goes across all depots. In an ideal world all guards would be running up and down a train like it was their 2nd week on the job. Sadly there is too much of a culture of doing just enough to keep their heads below managements watch rather. Anyone who actively patrols their trains regularly gets labelled as a ticket monster, it’s seen as uncool to make a difference to the passengers, whether that’s meeting them, making their day better, or relieving them of a couple of £££....

There are, however, some very good guards, who are diligent in what they do, and make an effort, sadly their efforts are often overlooked. I’ve noticed as well that sadly, the most vocal on the union front (save the guard etc) seem the be the more lazy ones.....

I appreciate that my comments above may draw flak from traincrew, but deep down, a lot will know it to be true.

I'm Traincrew, I agree with every single thing in this post. I have worked with some fantastic Guards who do their job properly, are compassionate and caring towards our passengers, are reliable and helpful to me as a Driver for operational assistance, it is a joy to work with these Guards.
On the other side of the coin there are some bad Guards out there who really let their decent colleagues down and to be quite frank, I wish these Guards were dealt with much more thoroughly by management. Complete disdain towards passengers, no effort to maintain their operational knowledge or assist the Driver in operational matters. These Guards are most commonly found sat in the back cab playing on their phone or in the mess room loudly stating their views that they are grossly underpaid. Those Guards, I wish they would leave the railway because they are of little/no help to me or the travelling public and to be honest, I think they have partly contributed to the mess we are in now.
Please do not take this post as me knocking the Guards grade, I actually think the bad minority do a disservice to proper, professional Guards and it's why they anger me so much.
A decent Guard is needed on all passenger trains, in an ideal world they would be replacing the crap ones.