GWR Bristol Temple Meads to Weymouth - what a joke...

[SpacePhoenix]

Yes and it would take a lot of the Dorchester to Weymouth trade. I live in Dorchester, and would never consider travelling to Weymouth on GWR as a result of their infrequency, persistent lateness, overcrowding (especially during summer) and often the substantial worse quality of trains (SWR use 444's).

Don't forget that it's possible that SWR could use 450s on the Weymouth-Portsmouth route when that starts

 

[Dougal2345]

Don't forget that it's possible that SWR could use 450s on the Weymouth-Portsmouth route when that starts

I think most people would say that a 150 is also substantially worse than a 450 in every respect, so the point still stands

 

[randyrippley]

If you blow it up a bit more, you will also see a north to east chord, GW to LSWR, and also a north to west chord direct to the south side of the junction station! The latter was to give transfer trip possibility from the GWR to the Goods yard which is now a preserved railway depot................

to be pedantic, that north-east chord was the original route the LSWR trains took to Yeovil Town Station. It wasn't a GW-LSWR connection. It was taken out when the LSWR main line was switched to go via the Junction, but restored for a while during both World Wars - mainly to give diversion access to the Yeovil-Taunton route, but also to give better access for Westland Aircraft
Always struck me as strange that the link was taken out: it meant that passengers between London and Yeovil had to change at the Junction, yet traffic between Yeovil and Exeter could go direct from the Town Station. Always seemed to be the wrong set of priorities

 

[jamesr]

I used this line pretty much every day for a spell in the mid 90s. The service is virtually unchanged since then. The biggest challenge is has is that it serves three quite different markets - the commuter service north of Frome (any further south of that and it's woefully slow compared to driving), a rural public service south of there, and then, only on school holiday dates when the sun shines, a day trip to the beach service.

The service north of Frome requires more than two coaches, but there is nowhere convenient to split the service. The service south of Frome has long three hour gaps in the middle of the day and is frequently very late, making it unattractive for rural shopping trips. And the beach day trips completely overwhelm a couple of trains each day in each direction, and it is difficult to see how the modern railway could accommodate it.

In a perfect world, I would make it clockface two hourly, with two additional "beach" trains 7 days a week during school holidays using stock that probably doesn't exist.

In a slightly more imaginative world, I wonder if there's a market for trains to run to Taunton. Yeovil is more connected to Taunton than towns on the route. Dorchester and Weymouth connections to the midlands will run through Bournemouth and Basingstoke so the connectivity of the route pointing west may open up more opportunities. I'm rambling, and I suspect reversing at Castle Cary is operationally impossible.

 

[Envoy]

In a perfect world, I would make it clockface two hourly, with two additional "beach" trains 7 days a week during school holidays using stock that probably doesn't exist.

In a slightly more imaginative world, I wonder if there's a market for trains to run to Taunton. Yeovil is more connected to Taunton than towns on the route. Dorchester and Weymouth connections to the midlands will run through Bournemouth and Basingstoke so the connectivity of the route pointing west may open up more opportunities. I'm rambling, and I suspect reversing at Castle Cary is operationally impossible.

Even if through trains ran between Yeovil and Taunton via Castle Cary, I can’t see it being viable as it is a much longer journey than the road route between these towns.

I presume that GWR will soon introduce 165/6’s on the route which will hopefully address the capacity issues. By using these better trains and getting rid of overcrowding, it could well lead to more people using the line.
Lets us not forget that as well as people from the Bristol to Frome area wishing to travel to Weymouth for a day out in summer, that those in Weymouth and Dorchester would also no doubt like to travel to Bath & Bristol for a day out.

 

[yorksrob]

Is the route currently laid out for a simple two-hourly service ? If not, is there somewhere a loop could be installed to make this possible ?

It strikes me as a reasonable aspiration.

 

[70014IronDuke]

Is the route currently laid out for a simple two-hourly service ? If not, is there somewhere a loop could be installed to make this possible ?

It strikes me as a reasonable aspiration.

I'm sure timetabling experts can answer this better than I can, but I have a feeling there is a real need for a loop at Yetminster even with today's service if anything like a robust service is to be maintained.

One too between PEn Mill and Castle Cary would be useful, for sure.

 

[70014IronDuke]

I used this line pretty much every day for a spell in the mid 90s. The service is virtually unchanged since then.

I have seen somewhere at least one wise commentator remark that the service is virtually unchanged since DMUs were first introduced in the early 1960s.

The biggest challenge is has is that it serves three quite different markets - the commuter service north of Frome (any further south of that and it's woefully slow compared to driving), a rural public service south of there, and then, only on school holiday dates when the sun shines, a day trip to the beach service.

I think this is a very important observation.

In a slightly more imaginative world, I wonder if there's a market for trains to run to Taunton. Yeovil is more connected to Taunton than towns on the route. Dorchester and Weymouth connections to the midlands will run through Bournemouth and Basingstoke so the connectivity of the route pointing west may open up more opportunities. I'm rambling, and I suspect reversing at Castle Cary is operationally impossible.

I don't know f it is operationally possible in any realistic day-to-day operation, but I have no doubt that if there were more connecting trains at Castle Cary for Taunton and points west [plus a better services from Weymouth, of course] more people would use the service from Weymouth and Bournemouth - despite the changes and slowish services. Not huge, perhaps, but people do it today wth what is a very skeletal service.

 

[yorksrob]

I'm sure timetabling experts can answer this better than I can, but I have a feeling there is a real need for a loop at Yetminster even with today's service if anything like a robust service is to be maintained.

One too between PEn Mill and Castle Cary would be useful, for sure.

Those certainly sound like the sort of improvements we should be aiming for on the network. If they could be packaged together with a new chord at Yeovil Junction it could represent a big improvement for a limited capital cost.

 

[Taunton]

I have known this line for a long time, although it used to be a challenge to get to in the days before any Paddington to Taunton services stopped at Castle Cary; you had to double back at Westbury.

In the 1960s-70s-80s it is true that the general frequency was not far away from today's service. However the railway was able to both anticipate and provide for fluctuations in load. In the winter trains were sparsely filled indeed, especially south of Westbury, but there is a longstanding summer peak flow of day trippers from Bristol to Weymouth, and to a lesser extent from Trowbridge and Westbury. Bath is far too snooty to go to the plebeian beach at Weymouth. It's a longstanding day out trip for mum and the kids from Bristol who don't have a car available. Anyway, relevant services were straightforwardly upgraded from the normal 3-car Cross Country set to 6-car, one of which was easily left at Weymouth during the day for the evening return. There's as much such traffic on a hot August weekday as there is at weekends. When things got anticipated as really hectic, Bristol Control had paid close attention to the weather forecast, a Hymek (I'm showing my age here) and eight would be rolled out for the key service each way. I think hauled summer services continued pretty much to about 1990.

Trains used to stop in those times at Maiden Newton for the branch connection to Bridport, and I seem to recall never seeing a single passenger get off for the latter, although traincrew in uniform would do, as the branch was actually run out of Westbury depot, and travelling to/from Maiden Newton seemed to take up half their shift.

 

[jimm]

Population of Truro 18,766.
Population of Falmouth 21,797

Population of Weymouth 52,323
Population of Dorchester 19,060
Population of Yeovil 45000

So just looking at the southern part of the Bristol - Weymouth line it connects far larger population centres than does Truro to Falmouth.

Yes and it would take a lot of the Dorchester to Weymouth trade. I live in Dorchester, and would never consider travelling to Weymouth on GWR as a result of their infrequency, persistent lateness, overcrowding (especially during summer) and often the substantial worse quality of trains (SWR use 444's).

Size isn't everything - what matters is where people want to travel to.

In the case of Truro and Falmouth, there are clear and obvious concentrated year-round flows of students, commuters and people from Falmouth visiting the main regional centre - Truro - for various reasons (and connecting to long-distance trains) which the railway is well-placed to serve.

Between Weymouth and Dorchester there are already 2tph provided by SWT, with the GWR service, whatever its quality, or lack thereof, being something of a detail in the scheme of things - using a different station in Dorchester just to add to the fun and often running a matter of minutes before or after an SWT service in both directions.

Are people in Weymouth and Dorchester desperate to travel up and down to Yeovil and Bristol or vice versa all the time? No, they're not, because, as I said, they are going to Bournemouth and Southampton.

You could spend a ton of money on extra infrastructure and running lots of extra trains up and down between Bristol and Weymouth - but you can't force people to travel on a route if it doesn't go where they want to go.

I am not saying there aren't things that could be better about the service - GWR would probably agree, but they have to work with the resources they are allowed by the DfT - but in the current climate, this route is way down the queue for investment, with the extra capacity provided by Turbos in place of 15Xs being about the only change envisaged in the near future.

 

[randyrippley]

.......... Anyway, relevant services were straightforwardly upgraded from the normal 3-car Cross Country set to 6-car, one of which was easily left at Weymouth during the day for the evening return. There's as much such traffic on a hot August weekday as there is at weekends. When things got anticipated as really hectic, Bristol Control had paid close attention to the weather forecast, a Hymek (I'm showing my age here) and eight would be rolled out for the key service each way........

You're forgetting their habit in the early 60's of attaching a couple of non-corridor loco-hauled coaches behind a 6-car cross country set. Used to go up through Bincliffe tunnel at walking speed

 

[nw1]

Trains used to stop in those times at Maiden Newton for the branch connection to Bridport, and I seem to recall never seeing a single passenger get off for the latter, although traincrew in uniform would do, as the branch was actually run out of Westbury depot, and travelling to/from Maiden Newton seemed to take up half their shift.

I do remember seeing a Bridport line timetable from the 1960s and was surprised that the trains started at Maiden Newton rather than Weymouth; thus necessitating _two_ changes (perhaps with poor connections) coming from the Bournemouth direction.

One wonders whether the Bridport line would be still open if it had been operated as a Weymouth-Bridport service (perhaps regular interval two-hourly?), connecting at Weymouth (or Upwey?) into London services. The line survived very late (1975) compared to Beeching lines so must have had something going for it to keep it open that late.

 

[randyrippley]

I do remember seeing a Bridport line timetable from the 1960s and was surprised that the trains started at Maiden Newton rather than Weymouth; thus necessitating _two_ changes (perhaps with poor connections) coming from the Bournemouth direction.

One wonders whether the Bridport line would be still open if it had been operated as a Weymouth-Bridport service (perhaps regular interval two-hourly?), connecting at Weymouth (or Upwey?) into London services. The line survived very late (1975) compared to Beeching lines so must have had something going for it to keep it open that late.

The County Council lobbied for it to be kept open because of the awful state of the roads in South Dorset at the time. They were so bad nobody wanted to run a replacement bus service.
The line had no traffic - it was handled by a single bubble car pottering along, and the line had been cut back from its holidaymaker terminus of West Bay years before. As Taunton said before, the train always stopped, nobody got on or off. I have a half memory of the bubble car carrying churns of milk, which were transferred at Maiden Newton..........if that's a real memory the milk was probably more valuable than the passengers

 

[PHILIPE]

I do remember seeing a Bridport line timetable from the 1960s and was surprised that the trains started at Maiden Newton rather than Weymouth; thus necessitating _two_ changes (perhaps with poor connections) coming from the Bournemouth direction.

One wonders whether the Bridport line would be still open if it had been operated as a Weymouth-Bridport service (perhaps regular interval two-hourly?), connecting at Weymouth (or Upwey?) into London services. The line survived very late (1975) compared to Beeching lines so must have had something going for it to keep it open that late.

The same unit shuttled up and down the branch all day. If it had gone to/from Weymouth trips on the Branch itself would have been lost.

 

[nw1]

The same unit shuttled up and down the branch all day. If it had gone to/from Weymouth trips on the Branch itself would have been lost.

... though the timing Weymouth to Bridport appears to be about 45 minutes so it would be possible to run a two-hourly service still with one unit; I would have expected the big convenience gain to passengers of running the branch train to a sizeable town and interchange station such as Weymouth (with the added effect of serving the county town of Dorchester) would have made the line much more well-used. Maiden Newton seems a very arbitrary terminus given the "main" line there itself has/had an erratic service.

 

[HowardGWR]

... though the timing Weymouth to Bridport appears to be about 45 minutes so it would be possible to run a two-hourly service still with one unit; I would have expected the big convenience gain to passengers of running the branch train to a sizeable town and interchange station such as Weymouth (with the added effect of serving the county town of Dorchester) would have made the line much more well-used. Maiden Newton seems a very arbitrary terminus given the "main" line there itself has/had an erratic service.

The branch was chiefly used to get you northwards, not southwards. I am not saying that is how it would still be, but the bus services from Bridport, thanks to John Prescott and the Rural Bus Grant, improved the services to Dorchester and to Weymouth (via Abbotsbury, another closed branch) so much, that they now run hourly without subsidy. They run half hourly between Axminster station, Lyme Regis and Bridport, one going to Weymouth and the other to Dorchester.

It is not true that people on this coast mainly want to go to Bournemouth and Southampton. The eastern psychological border for West Dorset residents is still Poole and family ties to west country destinations, including Yeovil, yes and Bath and Bristol, are still strong. Bournemouth and Christchurch are still considered to be in Hampshire, even if Ted Heath and co thought otherwise.

 

[joncombe]

Size isn't everything - what matters is where people want to travel to.

In the case of Truro and Falmouth, there are clear and obvious concentrated year-round flows of students, commuters and people from Falmouth visiting the main regional centre - Truro - for various reasons (and connecting to long-distance trains) which the railway is well-placed to serve.

Between Weymouth and Dorchester there are already 2tph provided by SWT, with the GWR service, whatever its quality, or lack thereof, being something of a detail in the scheme of things - using a different station in Dorchester just to add to the fun and often running a matter of minutes before or after an SWT service in both directions.

Are people in Weymouth and Dorchester desperate to travel up and down to Yeovil and Bristol or vice versa all the time? No, they're not, because, as I said, they are going to Bournemouth and Southampton.

I agree that people are more likely to go to Bournemouth or Southampton but how much of that is simply because that is where the transport links are better? I doubt many people living in Dorchester would take a job in Yeovil if they relied on a train service as infrequent as the one on this line is to get them there, compared to the route to Bournemouth. However if there was a reliable and frequent train service I suspect that would be different.

As I said previously there are several examples of rail routes in the region where an infrequent service running at seemingly random times has been improved to provide a frequent and reliable service, and when that happens a large growth in usage is seen. I think the same could happen on this line, if an operator was willing to improve the service.

I am not saying there aren't things that could be better about the service - GWR would probably agree, but they have to work with the resources they are allowed by the DfT - but in the current climate, this route is way down the queue for investment, with the extra capacity provided by Turbos in place of 15Xs being about the only change envisaged in the near future.

Yes I do at least hope the Turbos will bring some improvements. I also think if they could provide a good conection with most trains on this line to trains to London at Castle Cary or Westbury it would get a lot more people using the service too, but the London - Taunton route is another where most of the stations get an infrequent and irregular service, so it suffers to some degree with the same problems as the Heart of Wessex line.

 

[Taunton]

family ties to west country destinations, including Yeovil, yes and Bath and Bristol, are still strong.

True. I reckon more of the retirees in Weymouth are from Bristol than anywhere else. Likewise the day trippers, not all of whom do it just to pop in to granny for a cup of tea.

It was always a shame that in BR days the service was not diverted through a reversal at Yeovil Junction, with a couple of curves for which the earthworks pretty much exist. The local ganger could have probably knocked it up, with some discussion with his mate at the S&T (likely his cousin) over a few weekends. Nowadays it requires a huge project, millions of cost bounced between budgets, MPs involvements, every layer of management well removed from the actual works getting their overbearing photos in Modern Railways, work crews sent down from Barnsley while the local guys stand idle, and goodness knows what else.

 

[30907]

... though the timing Weymouth to Bridport appears to be about 45 minutes so it would be possible to run a two-hourly service still with one unit; I would have expected the big convenience gain to passengers of running the branch train to a sizeable town and interchange station such as Weymouth (with the added effect of serving the county town of Dorchester) would have made the line much more well-used. Maiden Newton seems a very arbitrary terminus given the "main" line there itself has/had an erratic service.

Pre rationalisation the main line had a reasonably frequent service, so connections weren't really an issue (and IIRC they weren't too bad after). The layout didnt allow through running from Weymouth to Bridport, only the reverse (it was altered at rationalisation so the connection faced Westbury).

 

[HowardGWR]

If we agree that the issue for this line is chiefly inadequate infrastructure, (loops, turnbacks and chords) then perhaps the discussion is more appropriate in that forum?

I'll open a thread, if agreed. Title 'Wessex infrastructure improvements needed?' or suggest a better one.

 

[Schweir]

If we agree that the issue for this line is chiefly inadequate infrastructure, (loops, turnbacks and chords) then perhaps the discussion is more appropriate in that forum?

I'll open a thread, if agreed. Title 'Wessex infrastructure improvements needed?' or suggest a better one.

Feel free to. I think this thread has run its course.

 

[jimm]

It is not true that people on this coast mainly want to go to Bournemouth and Southampton. The eastern psychological border for West Dorset residents is still Poole and family ties to west country destinations, including Yeovil, yes and Bath and Bristol, are still strong. Bournemouth and Christchurch are still considered to be in Hampshire, even if Ted Heath and co thought otherwise.

Really. So why aren't the existing Bristol-Weymouth services running packed to the doors, day in, day out, all year round, which would surely be the case if there was so much demand for travel on this axis, whatever the supposed inadequacies of the timetable are? And the A37 would presumably have been turned into a dual carriageway long ago.

I agree that people are more likely to go to Bournemouth or Southampton but how much of that is simply because that is where the transport links are better? I doubt many people living in Dorchester would take a job in Yeovil if they relied on a train service as infrequent as the one on this line is to get them there, compared to the route to Bournemouth. However if there was a reliable and frequent train service I suspect that would be different.

Fine town though Yeovil may be, it isn't a big draw set against what Bournemouth and Southampton have to offer, whatever the state of transport links - and Yeovil Pen Mill isn't exactly well located when it comes to serving the town centre, never mind Junction, which would be as near as any Weymouth-Exeter service would ever get to Yeovil proper.

As I said previously there are several examples of rail routes in the region where an infrequent service running at seemingly random times has been improved to provide a frequent and reliable service, and when that happens a large growth in usage is seen. I think the same could happen on this line, if an operator was willing to improve the service.

If there was more traffic to be had, someone at GWR would probably have noticed by now and done something about trying to provide for it. They have seen opportunities elsewhere and capitalised on them - not just in the South West but much closer to London, where extra miles have been wrung out of existing rolling stock to do things like offer more trains on the Cotswold Line.

That they have not done anything much on the Weymouth route suggests they don't think it is worth the effort required. Nor does the DfT, judging by the 'steady as she goes' requirements laid down for the December 2018 timetable in the service level commitment.

Yes I do at least hope the Turbos will bring some improvements. I also think if they could provide a good conection with most trains on this line to trains to London at Castle Cary or Westbury it would get a lot more people using the service too, but the London - Taunton route is another where most of the stations get an infrequent and irregular service, so it suffers to some degree with the same problems as the Heart of Wessex line.

Once the 802s are in service there will be an improved semi-fast service on the Berks & Hants route to Taunton and Exeter, but I have my doubts about how many people you could ever persuade to change trains at Castle Cary for zero time advantage compared with the fastest direct services to and from Waterloo.

 

[yorksrob]

Really. So why aren't the existing Bristol-Weymouth services running packed to the doors, day in, day out, all year round, which would surely be the case if there was so much demand for travel on this axis, whatever the supposed inadequacies of the timetable are? And the A37 would presumably have been turned into a dual carriageway long ago.

That's a preposterous assertion to make.

Even very busy commuter routes in the South East aren't "packed to the doors, day in, day out, all year round". Infact, with the exception perhaps of trains wholly within London every line, however busy has its quieter periods.

This is a route where where a few modest infrastructure improvements could make a major improvement for passengers.

 

[jimm]

That's a preposterous assertion to make.

Even very busy commuter routes in the South East aren't "packed to the doors, day in, day out, all year round". Infact, with the exception perhaps of trains wholly within London every line, however busy has its quieter periods.

This is a route where where a few modest infrastructure improvements could make a major improvement for passengers.

Slight degree of sarcasm in my comment, in case you hadn't noticed...

The first post in this thread actually appears to be calling for actions to be taken over calls/request stops at a series of stations that would result in a worsening of the service for passengers at those places.

Much of what had followed has been assorted 'it would be nice if's with precious little by way of concrete evidence that there is a compelling case for, including chords and new lines that even the Victorians at the height of the railway mania couldn't actually justify building, though plenty of other posts indicate I am far from being the only sceptic about the supposed pot of gold the railway is missing out on here.

Like I said, GWR is pretty good at spotting and exploiting genuine opportunities to generate extra revenue but it doesn't appear to see much here, beyond catering for the summer Saturday traffic and adjusting the service on those days accordingly.

GWR could run more trains year-round on the existing infrastructure but doesn't (which has allowed SWT/SWR to run its services via Yeovil Pen Mill), nor is the DfT demanding that they do so in future. Why might that be?

 

[Taunton]

This is a route where where a few modest infrastructure improvements could make a major improvement for passengers.

But the real Achilles heel is its poor siting of stations and routing.

Bristol to Frome is a decidedly long way round, and the long-gone line through Radstock was about 15 miles shorter. If the junction at Frome had faced the other way it might have formed an effective alternative. However it was steeply graded, the advantage of the line round by Trowbridge was being pretty level and suiting the days when there was much heavy freight from South Wales to southern England sent this way.

But the siting of the stations ...

Trowbridge is actually on the main street. But the only one like this on the line.

Westbury is well out of town, to such an extent that when the avoiding line was built in the 1930s, significantly passing the junction station, it actually passed between the station and the town.

Frome station is by the last houses on the Warminster road before it heads out into the country.

Bruton is likewise on the periphery.

Castle Cary station is in the middle of nowhere. The line actually performs an arc around the town at a radius of over a mile. The so-called Station Road, the B3152, has little or no pavement or street lighting through the fields, so you could never send schoolchildren along it.

Yeovil has the ridiculous situation of being served by two stations on two unconnected routes, both of which are beyond walking distance from the town. It used to have a third, Yeovil Town, centrally situated, also the start of the old Taunton line, when there were shuttle trains to both. Incidentally, you can actually see the Weymouth trains passing, at speed, from the east end of the Junction platforms. But just try getting to them.

Thornford has to be the remotest of all, just surrounded by fields.

Yetminster is, for once, well-sited.

Chetnole is a repeat of Thornford.

Maiden Newton is OK.

Dorchester West is actually sited better than Dorchester South relative to the centre of town, but having such an irregular service to Weymouth in comparison, nobody would go there for heading south.

chords and new lines that even the Victorians at the height of the railway mania couldn't actually justify building

I think the only serious one is the two chords into Yeovil Junction. Which the Victorians did build, as far as the earthworks go, which can still be readily seen on Google Earth. It was just that GWR-LSWR rivalry prevented them being used.

 

[yorksrob]

Slight degree of sarcasm in my comment, in case you hadn't noticed...

The first post in this thread actually appears to be calling for actions to be taken over calls/request stops at a series of stations that would result in a worsening of the service for passengers at those places.

Much of what had followed has been assorted 'it would be nice if's with precious little by way of concrete evidence that there is a compelling case for, including chords and new lines that even the Victorians at the height of the railway mania couldn't actually justify building, though plenty of other posts indicate I am far from being the only sceptic about the supposed pot of gold the railway is missing out on here.

Like I said, GWR is pretty good at spotting and exploiting genuine opportunities to generate extra revenue but it doesn't appear to see much here, beyond catering for the summer Saturday traffic and adjusting the service on those days accordingly.

GWR could run more trains year-round on the existing infrastructure but doesn't (which has allowed SWT/SWR to run its services via Yeovil Pen Mill), nor is the DfT demanding that they do so in future. Why might that be?

Your comment would only have been sarcasm had you made it whilst making the opposing argument.

In terms of your arguments, many of us on here who have used the line have found services to be well used, or even overcrowded with the present timetable. It is a well known railway phenomenon that if you go from an infrequent, irregular service to a more frequent service at a regular interval, it will attract more people. You might have had a point if people were arguing for ten minute frequencies, however all people are calling for is a regular two hour interval service with capacity to match demand. This is something that a busy cross country link can easily support.

Also, it is a well known fact that travel westwards from the Dorset coast by rail is unnecessarily awkward. If that weren't the case, how come BR were looking into inserting such a chord at Yeovil Junction when passenger numbers were much lower than today.

A two hourly service connecting with the East West line at Yeovil Junction is an entirely sensible idea whose time has come.

 

[jimm]

Your comment would only have been sarcasm had you made it whilst making the opposing argument.

Whatever you say... obviously I was being entirely serious about the 22.23 from Yeovil's eastern outskirts to Weymouth being packed to the doors on a wet Tuesday night in January.

In terms of your arguments, many of us on here who have used the line have found services to be well used, or even overcrowded with the present timetable. It is a well known railway phenomenon that if you go from an infrequent, irregular service to a more frequent service at a regular interval, it will attract more people. You might have had a point if people were arguing for ten minute frequencies, however all people are calling for is a regular two hour interval service with capacity to match demand. This is something that a busy cross country link can easily support.

Also, it is a well known fact that travel westwards from the Dorset coast by rail is unnecessarily awkward. If that weren't the case, how come BR were looking into inserting such a chord at Yeovil Junction when passenger numbers were much lower than today.

A two hourly service connecting with the East West line at Yeovil Junction is an entirely sensible idea whose time has come.

Well maybe someone living locally can keep us informed of how the now year-round Sunday services get on over coming months. If they do well, then they could help make the case for improvements the rest of the week. In case anyone thinks this is a reversal of a cost-cutting measure from recent times, the Sunday service outside the summer in the mid-60s consisted of one out-and-back dmu working from Westbury to Weymouth.

If the time for a chord at Yeovil Junction has come, where's the Grip study?

Even Dorset County Council, which calls for a Weymouth-Exeter service in its LTP, wants it to run to Pen Mill and reverse there. If there was a chord and stopping in the fields outside Yeovil was deemed acceptable, the running time of such a train would still not be competitive with driving to Devon outside the summer months.

 

[yorksrob]

Whatever you say... obviously I was being entirely serious about the 22.23 from Yeovil's eastern outskirts to Weymouth being packed to the doors on a wet Tuesday night in January.

If you're arguing that trains need to be busier to justify investment, why would you self-satirise that by making an over-exaggerated argument ?

Well maybe someone living locally can keep us informed of how the now year-round Sunday services get on over coming months. If they do well, then they could help make the case for improvements the rest of the week. In case anyone thinks this is a reversal of a cost-cutting measure from recent times, the Sunday service outside the summer in the mid-60s consisted of one out-and-back dmu working from Westbury to Weymouth.

If the time for a chord at Yeovil Junction has come, where's the Grip study?

Even Dorset County Council, which calls for a Weymouth-Exeter service in its LTP, wants it to run to Pen Mill and reverse there. If there was a chord and stopping in the fields outside Yeovil was deemed acceptable, the running time of such a train would still not be competitive with driving to Devon outside the summer months.

A decent Sunday service is an important part of any passenger route, and we are finding all over the country that routes that have traditionally had very poor Sunday services have found their Sunday services thriving recently. Indeed, a large number routes are having their Sunday services augmented or restored.

In terms of reversing back from Yeovil PM, that is actually quite a distance from Junction and the return trip there would add an unnecessary time delay to the journey, compared to a simple reversal en route.

Yeovil Junction might be "in a field" but it is also the main interchange point with East-West services. Stopping there would enable people to travel from South to West easily.

Finally, when are people on here going to learn that the railway is not solely full of motorists who are only travelling because they can shave five minutes off of their car journey. A lot of passengers don't drive for all manor of reasons including, not owning a car, owning a car, but not finding it convenient to drive on those occasions, not liking driving long distances etc.

 

[70014IronDuke]

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In terms of reversing back from Yeovil PM, that is actually quite a distance from Junction and the return trip there would add an unnecessary time delay to the journey, compared to a simple reversal en route.
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It is unnecessary compared to a chord enabling direct access from Weymouth into Yeovil Junction. But installing that would - is going to - cost £££m

As a first move, I would support the introduction of an experimental service from Bournemouth (ideally) or Weymouth (the more likely) to Exeter service - even if only two each way per day, reversing at Pen Mill.

This would test the waters and cost what, about 8 minutes extra per train compared to having the chord installed. (And, it would add an extra service to Pen Mill, which is still more conveninent for Yeovil than Jcn, ie it would not be a 'total loss' of a journey.)

In fact, I'd say a new loop at Yetminster would be a better use of any investment monies than a south-west chord at Jcn.

Honestly, under current conditions, with such demands on investment, I can't see any chord being installed without a very clear proven need. It is far from ideal, but if it can't be shown that direct [Bournemouth-Poole]-Weymouth-Exeter traffic does exist, nobody is going to risk all that dosh installing the chord.

I think small, incremental improvements stand far more chance of implementation than any 'big bang' plan: a couple of Weymouth - Exeter workings would be a small step in the right direction. I assume, of course, that there is capacity between Junction and Exeter for a couple of such trains.