GWR Bristol Temple Meads to Weymouth - what a joke...

[brad465]

When I travelled from Bath to Weymouth in early July the 2+2 150 formation was supposed to divide at Westbury, but it all went the whole way in the end. Just as well given a primary school group boarded at Frome and it was 28 degrees out, so beach traffic was full flow. :roll:

 

[PHILIPE]

Would it improve the service if it was cut back to start at Bristol Temple Meads and route clear for 165/166s, I'm sure the Severn Beach branch could easily cope with a Sprinter.

The plan is for Turbos at a future date when enough available from London area.

 

[PHILIPE]

There is horrific overcrowding during the summer months too. I was recently left behind by a Bristol Temple Meads to Weymouth service - there was simply no way I could possibly fit onto the train, and a number of other passengers were left behind too. I eventiually travelled via Salisbury instead (which costs much more) and was more than 2 hours late.

Have read reports that the trains can fill up at Bristol TM with passengers only travelling as far as Bath leaving longer distance ones behind.

 

[zn1]

some people like to moan for the sake of it...NO WIFI installed - bleh bleh bleh, use your own mobile network...or ..Read a book, newspaper or listen to ya walkman.

the stock is rubbish, the BTM-WEY has been sprinters or Express sprinters for years, before that Flying Meccano....

its better than getting the bus from Bristol..

just sit down and stop moaning, or Use ya car

failing that, make the case, obtain some vehicles and offer an alternative to the plebs

 

[Harbouring]

When I last travelled on this line I had no phone network Westbury-Yeovil and then again south to Dorchester anyway. Wouldn't wifi access the same signal and thus be patchy/useless at needed capacity?

 

[Andy2308]

Might be a rose tinted glasses moment but, even though there were some entertaining journeys back in the final days of the 1st gen dmu's, I actually thought the old class 155s did a fairly decent job on Weymouth - Bristol, quieter and more comfortable than the 150s we got once they were carted off for chopping up into 153s.

Having travelled on 165/6 units they'd be a major step up.

Andy

 

[iantherev]

Thanks everyone for the replies. Maybe the original post was out of frustration, but when you have to see 70+ year olds standing for over an hour on old non-air conditioned trains it does make you wonder why they do not invest more time/money into this line, especially when it has been so busy over the summer.

GWR have had around half a dozen until off for most of the summer for various ROSCO related work or stopped awaiting parts which are taking longer to arrive than usual. This has led to trains being shortformed across the network and also units in traffic being more liable to fail because they're having to plug gaps.

 

[Envoy]

The Cardiff to Weymouth fare is set by Arriva Trains Wales.
Cardiff to Bristol and Bristol to Weymouth is set by GWR. So it seems the fares GWR set are more reasonable.

Why on Earth are ATW setting a fare for a route where their trains do not run? Does ATW get the money instead of GWR? Very odd.

I don’t see why there should be a price differential between a day return and a return at a later date. Surely, what counts is supply of seats v demand at any given time. Anyway, what with overcrowding, no air con, the possibility of not getting on-board, I will stick to the car - even though the roads to Weymouth are pretty poor.

 

[HowardGWR]

I think the shortcomings of this service will be very well known to Mr Mark Hopwood and being a Community line, there is an active user group. Funnily enough, some of the keenest members are users from the halts some here would like to see closed.

A service that runs every two hours and tries to be a commuter / shopping local service as well as an inter-city one will always fall between two stools.

Inter-city? Well, someone mentioned the real service that was left when the S and D closed, which was (Bristol) -Bath - Bournemouth. Some pax are routed from the last, at present, via Dorchester (walk between South and West) or even change at Upwey!

I am certain that, if the Yeovil to Dorchester stretch was redoubled and an hourly service could reverse at Dorchester or Weymouth for Poole and Bournemouth, then this fast service (with a local one in between from Westbury to Weymouth ) would find demand very readily.

Meanwhile, the newer 16x units coming on stream will be appreciated.

 

[Dougal2345]

From a personal point of view, I like the Weymouth route. Yes, the timetable is far from perfect with large gaps throughout the day. However the line does have some very interesting features as well. The wooden station and train shed at Frome, a country junction station at Castle Cary, semaphores at Yeovil Pen Mill, the signalbox with Tom the resident cat patrolling his patch, the No Signaller token operation between Yeovil and Maiden Newton, rural halts that dodged the bullet in the 1960s and some lovely countryside.

It is a lovely route. It's rather like a ride on a heritage railway - unfortunately, it's a heritage railway that has a captive market, so it uses rolling stock that no-one would even consider riding in for pleasure...

 

[HowardGWR]

It is a lovely route. It's rather like a ride on a heritage railway - unfortunately, it's a heritage railway that has a captive market, so it uses rolling stock that no-one would even consider riding in for pleasure...

I suspect that if we were just talking about comparison shoppers travelling from (say) Trowbridge to Bath, or (say) a family visit from Maiden Newton to Bruton, then I don't think folk will be too fussed, as the fares are cheap. It's if you are travelling from Weymouth to Bristol that makes it all so tedious and wearing.

 

[StarCrossing]

Have read reports that the trains can fill up at Bristol TM with passengers only travelling as far as Bath leaving longer distance ones behind.

In my experience, the guards encourage people to use the HSTs to travel to Bath, but most passengers prefer to stand on the 150s, moaning that the train company should put on more carriages.:roll:

However, the trains can still be very full after Bath.

 

[All Line Rover]

Ever tried to travel from Crewe (let alone Chester) to Nottingham?

Crewe to Derby is a fine comparision with Bristol to Weymouth. Both are as bad as each other!

Nothing wrong with Crewe to Chester, though. A frequent and reliable service, and the fact that half the services operate with old-fashioned rolling stock isn't a problem when the journey time is only 20 minutes.

 

[yorksrob]

The route strikes me as being one which might be suitable for Great Western's GTI HST's.

 

[Schweir]

In my experience, the guards encourage people to use the HSTs to travel to Bath, but most passengers prefer to stand on the 150s, moaning that the train company should put on more carriages.:roll:

However, the trains can still be very full after Bath.

They are often more full after Bath in my experience (during the rush hour departures from Bath/Bristol) than between Bath and Bristol.

A lot of people get off at Trowbridge, Bradford On Avon & Frome

 

[WelshBluebird]

In my experience, the guards encourage people to use the HSTs to travel to Bath, but most passengers prefer to stand on the 150s, moaning that the train company should put on more carriages.:roll:

However, the trains can still be very full after Bath.

To be fair, some of the timetabling is to blame there with a stopping service leaving just before a HST (for example: the 17.49 stopping leaving just before the 18.00 HST).

 

[AndrewE]

Crewe to Derby is a fine comparision with Bristol to Weymouth. Both are as bad as each other!

Nothing wrong with Crewe to Chester, though. A frequent and reliable service, and the fact that half the services operate with old-fashioned rolling stock isn't a problem when the journey time is only 20 minutes.

I meant Chester to Derby - one change and often a 150 followed by a single 153 - is crap. (or even Chester to Nottingham - 2 changes.) Crewe to Chester is just abut OK - except that my train seems to be cancelled every time I try to use it. I've noticed them cancelled quite frequently when I have been travelling elsewhere too.

Agree 20 mins Crewe to Chester in a 150 isn't too bad, especially when compared with an hour or more in a rail-replacement bus!

 

[PHILIPE]

To be fair, some of the timetabling is to blame there with a stopping service leaving just before a HST (for example: the 17.49 stopping leaving just before the 18.00 HST).

It happens on every hour where there is a Weymouth service. The 1800 to Paddington has been calling at Keynsham quite frequently recently, as has been mentioned earlier, because the 1749 has been short formed (should be 4 Car x 150 as far as Westbury) with only 2 and passengers have been left behind.

 

[A0wen]

I am certain that, if the Yeovil to Dorchester stretch was redoubled and an hourly service could reverse at Dorchester or Weymouth for Poole and Bournemouth, then this fast service (with a local one in between from Westbury to Weymouth ) would find demand very readily.

Meanwhile, the newer 16x units coming on stream will be appreciated.

The problem is the journey time of doing Bournemouth to Bath is uncompetitive via Weymouth - and short of spending huge sums on the Yeovil - Weymouth line, that's not going to improve - e.g.

From National Rail - to travel today from Bournemouth - Bath, the quickest journey I could see was 2h 17m changing at Southampton with a 10 min change.

You're then looking at 2h 45m changing at Reading with a c25 min wait at Reading.

The quickest I could see via Weymouth was 3h 05m with a 6 minute wait at Weymouth.

Dorchester is c 10 mins from Weymouth, so a 'reversal' at Dorchester (even if it were possible) would only save 10/15 mins - and I'm not sure there's anywhere convenient to reverse in any case.

This is not dissimilar to the debate on the S&D not so long ago around here, where again, even if it were reinstated (for which I believe Hades will freeze over first) then its journey times will simply never be competitive with the existing routes.

Between Yeovil (popn 45,000) and Weymouth (popn 52,000) the line serves only one place of any size - Dorchester (popn 20,000) - frankly that's not enough to justify redoubling and certainly not when there are other schemes far more deserving of such improvements.

 

[Envoy]

Surely, what would make investment in the section from Yeovil to Dorchester more worthwhile would be a way of connecting Bournemouth with Exeter without going all the way east to Southampton? The key to this is at Yeovil Junction where either a through train could switch routes or easy connections be made.

Click this link and you will see both the Waterloo to Exeter main line and the south-north Weymouth to Bristol line. Look carefully, and you will see where the chord linked the 2 lines at Yeovil Junction - only the north link remains.https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@50.9290995,-2.6132674,3017m/data=!3m1!1e3!5m1!1e1

 

[Andy2308]

Surely, what would make investment in the section from Yeovil to Dorchester more worthwhile would be a way of connecting Bournemouth with Exeter without going all the way east to Southampton? The key to this is at Yeovil Junction where either a through train could switch routes or easy connections be made.

Click this link and you will see both the Waterloo to Exeter main line and the south-north Weymouth to Bristol line. Look carefully, and you will see where the chord linked the 2 lines at Yeovil Junction - only the north link remains.https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@50.9290995,-2.6132674,3017m/data=!3m1!1e3!5m1!1e1

I'm happy to be corrected but the southern link, apart from the earthworks I don't think ever saw any track?

Andy

 

[A0wen]

Surely, what would make investment in the section from Yeovil to Dorchester more worthwhile would be a way of connecting Bournemouth with Exeter without going all the way east to Southampton? The key to this is at Yeovil Junction where either a through train could switch routes or easy connections be made.

Click this link and you will see both the Waterloo to Exeter main line and the south-north Weymouth to Bristol line. Look carefully, and you will see where the chord linked the 2 lines at Yeovil Junction - only the north link remains.https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@50.9290995,-2.6132674,3017m/data=!3m1!1e3!5m1!1e1

Two words - Business case.

Sorry - but there simply isn't the demand for a direct Bournemouth - Exeter service and certainly not enough to justify the improvements you suggest.

Currently Exeter - Yeovil takes approx 1h 15m. Yeovil - Weymouth 50m and Weymouth - Bournemouth 50m - all in just shy of 3 hours.

The average journey going via Southampton and Sailsbury is 3h 20m.

Even if you improved Yeovil - Weymouth - doubling etc - you'd struggle to save more than 15 mins.

So you're suggesting a massive improvement, for a 30 minute saving to provide a service between two medium sized places. The only places of size served en route would be Poole, Weymouth and Yeovil- that's it.

Weymouth - Yeovil is circa 30 miles - even on a *very* conservative £ 5m a mile to upgrade (bearing in mind signalling etc would need changing) you'd be looking at £ 150m.

Sorry - but it just doesn't stack up.

 

[SpacePhoenix]

Surely, what would make investment in the section from Yeovil to Dorchester more worthwhile would be a way of connecting Bournemouth with Exeter without going all the way east to Southampton? The key to this is at Yeovil Junction where either a through train could switch routes or easy connections be made.

Click this link and you will see both the Waterloo to Exeter main line and the south-north Weymouth to Bristol line. Look carefully, and you will see where the chord linked the 2 lines at Yeovil Junction - only the north link remains.https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@50.9290995,-2.6132674,3017m/data=!3m1!1e3!5m1!1e1

Was there ever a south-east chord at that junction?

 

[randyrippley]

Was there ever a south-east chord at that junction?

There was never a south-east curve
There was an aborted attempt at building a south-west curve, but that was abandoned after just the embankment had been built. Never had any track, and would probably have clashed with the Clifton Maybank goods shed link

 

[70014IronDuke]

It seems a lot of the overcrowding is local traffic on the Bristol-Bath and maybe Trowbridge sections.

I assume it is pretty busy in summer, but how busy is the 'core' bit of the Heart of Wessex - I mean Westbury - Weymouth - in winter?

 

[HowardGWR]

Surely, what would make investment in the section from Yeovil to Dorchester more worthwhile would be a way of connecting Bournemouth with Exeter without going all the way east to Southampton? The key to this is at Yeovil Junction where either a through train could switch routes or easy connections be made.

Click this link and you will see both the Waterloo to Exeter main line and the south-north Weymouth to Bristol line. Look carefully, and you will see where the chord linked the 2 lines at Yeovil Junction - only the north link remains.https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@50.9290995,-2.6132674,3017m/data=!3m1!1e3!5m1!1e1

If you blow it up a bit more, you will also see a north to east chord, GW to LSWR, and also a north to west chord direct to the south side of the junction station! The latter was to give transfer trip possibility from the GWR to the Goods yard which is now a preserved railway depot.

I agree with AOWen that the economics look dodgy, but you have to know our area intimately to see the possibilities. South coast traffic is heavy and is forced to road. The latter is confined by running through AONBs, to single carriage way, and further bypasses are ruled out of order under today's planning rules. So there is a strong environmental and social case for improvements to rail, mainly re-instatement.

The fact is that if the structures had not been rationalised, they now would not be. It's reinstatement (against other current priorities) that is the hurdle.

 

[joncombe]

I do echo the sentiments of the original poster that the service on this line is poor. If you see what SWT did with the West of England line which had a similarly sparse service post privitisation but now seems to be thriving with an hourly service then I think if the service was improved demand would significantly increase to match.

I can remember how bad the service was under Wales and West, services on most branch lines cut. Then we had Wessex Trains who I really felt made an effort. They boosted frequency on many of these rural lines and did a nice refurbishment of many of the trains, the 150s in particularly. Whilst I'm no fan of 150s their refurbishment made them much more pleasant to travel on. They also seemed to make an effort on this line introducting the Class 31 loco-hauled sets on the busier trains and seemed to make more of an effort to promote the line. I can also recall the Truro to Falmouth line was very run down and with infrequent services. Now it runs every 30 minutes and the trains are often over-crowded. It shows that if a decent service is provided the public will use it.

And then in came First and it seemed they swapped all the nicely refurbished Wessex 150s for the tattiest cast offs they could find from other operators (and all the 158s went from Devon and Cornwall and 150s replaced by Pacers) and it certainly feels to me they have litle interest in the line. As I say I feel that SWT made a good effort on improving their services in Wessex whilst First have largely just stuck with running the same services to the same timetable.

 

[jimm]

I do echo the sentiments of the original poster that the service on this line is poor. If you see what SWT did with the West of England line which had a similarly sparse service post privitisation but now seems to be thriving with an hourly service then I think if the service was improved demand would significantly increase to match.

How can you try to compare the main line with the Weymouth route? Different kettles of fish entirely - one goes to London, the other doesn't.

I can remember how bad the service was under Wales and West, services on most branch lines cut. Then we had Wessex Trains who I really felt made an effort. They boosted frequency on many of these rural lines and did a nice refurbishment of many of the trains, the 150s in particularly. Whilst I'm no fan of 150s their refurbishment made them much more pleasant to travel on. They also seemed to make an effort on this line introducting the Class 31 loco-hauled sets on the busier trains and seemed to make more of an effort to promote the line. I can also recall the Truro to Falmouth line was very run down and with infrequent services. Now it runs every 30 minutes and the trains are often over-crowded. It shows that if a decent service is provided the public will use it.

Again, how can you compare Truro-Falmouth with the Weymouth route? One is a short branch line linking two of the largest towns in Cornwall and providing a vital transport link for students who study at the university sites in Falmouth but live in Truro. The other runs for much of its route through sparsely-populated countryside on an axis that means it is not going to generate anything like that volume of traffic. People in Weymouth are far more likely to go to Bournemouth and Southampton for work, education and leisure reasons than will ever head to Yeovil, Bath or Bristol. PS: The 30-minute Falmouth frequency happened under FGW, long after the demise of Wessex Trains.

The Class 31s were used mainly because there were no spare dmus available, same as GWR uses HSTs on summer Saturdays now.

And then in came First and it seemed they swapped all the nicely refurbished Wessex 150s for the tattiest cast offs they could find from other operators (and all the 158s went from Devon and Cornwall and 150s replaced by Pacers) and it certainly feels to me they have litle interest in the line. As I say I feel that SWT made a good effort on improving their services in Wessex whilst First have largely just stuck with running the same services to the same timetable.

And then in came First, who were stripped of a chunk of the Wessex Trains dmus fleet because someone at the DfT decided that this rolling stock would not be needed by the Greater Western franchise when it started in 2006, saddling First with a problem that has persisted to this day, despite subsequent additions to the fleet but which haven't been enough to keep up with growth, particularly around Bristol.

 

[joncombe]

Again, how can you compare Truro-Falmouth with the Weymouth route? One is a short branch line linking two of the largest towns in Cornwall and providing a vital transport link for students who study at the university sites in Falmouth but live in Truro. The other runs for much of its route through sparsely-populated countryside on an axis that means it is not going to generate anything like that volume of traffic.

Population of Truro 18,766.
Population of Falmouth 21,797

Population of Weymouth 52,323
Population of Dorchester 19,060
Population of Yeovil 45000

So just looking at the southern part of the Bristol - Weymouth line it connects far larger population centres than does Truro to Falmouth.

 

[Schweir]

Population of Truro 18,766.
Population of Falmouth 21,797

Population of Weymouth 52,323
Population of Dorchester 19,060
Population of Yeovil 45000

So just looking at the southern part of the Bristol - Weymouth line it connects far larger population centres than does Truro to Falmouth.

Yes and it would take a lot of the Dorchester to Weymouth trade. I live in Dorchester, and would never consider travelling to Weymouth on GWR as a result of their infrequency, persistent lateness, overcrowding (especially during summer) and often the substantial worse quality of trains (SWR use 444's).