GWR Class 800

[Class 33]

I did a journey on a Class 800 on Friday, on the 0930 Bristol Temple Meads-London Paddington service. I booked a seat in Quiet Coach A. Though as usual I didn't sit in the actual seat I was allocated, because A) I booked an airline forward facing seating, and I was allocated a backwards facing seat! and B) because I could see there was another person reserved in the seat next to me. And I prefer to have to have two seats to myself. So I initally sat in one of the unreserved airline forward facing seats. But I decided to then move to a forward facing table seat, as it offers a better view, and I didn't think this service would be very busy at this time of day on a weekday. But it turned out the train was fairly busy which was a surprise, and a guy sat opposite me on the ailse seat. Oh well! Also three or four people were talking on their mobile phones, despite this being a Quiet Coach! One woman rightly got up and told one guy who was having a business conversation on his phone, that this was a Quiet Coach! Good on her. To be fair though, there was hardly any signs in this coach that this was a Quiet Coach, apart from just a small poster on the wall at the end of the carriage, which a lot of people won't notice. GWR needs to put more signs up that this is a Quiet Coach, including vinyl stickers on the top part of the windows and stickers on the backs of seats. The carriages though are nice and airy. Though I think in the mornings and evenings when it's dark outside, the interior lighting would be too bright for me. The seats are a bit hard, but not too bad really, and not as bad as I thought they would be! I like that the seats don't have as high backs as the seats in the current GWR HST's, so I can see down the carriages a bit more and not feel like I'm in a small cubicle! The armrests are a bit narrow though! A nice pleasant journey overall. I enjoyed it. These trains are good worthy successors to the HST's on Great Western mainline services. A MUCH better successor compared to the Voyager's replacing HST's and Class 47's on the Virgin Cross-Country services.

I look forward to getting a nice long(ish) ride on one of these fine trains again sometime early next year. Though I'd like to ideally get a ride on these on one of the services that don't keep stopping at stations every 10-15 minutes!!(apart from the approx 30 minute journey between Reading and London Paddington), for instance services on occasional weekends that are diverted via Newbury and Trowbridge and run non-stop between Reading and Bath Spa, giving a nice long non-stop high speed run. Hopefully soon, more of these trains will be running at weekends, making such journeys possible.

 

[spark001uk]

I rode a few last week between Reading and Paddington. As soon as it gets onto electric it goes like a rocket !

 

[Railperf]

As soon as it gets onto electric it goes like a rocket !

In electric mode, the 800's are definitely quicker than an HST and slightly quicker than a Class 180 Adelante. But the Class 395 ' Javelins seem to accelerate quicker and have a higher top speed.

 

[Railperf]

A MUCH better successor compared to the Voyager's replacing HST's and Class 47's on the Virgin Cross-Country services.

The biggest problem with Voyagers replacing HST's was the fact that a 4 or 5 car voyager had far fewer seats than the HST and therefore suffered overcrowding. Otherwise, i dont find Voyagers a bad train to travel in. You dont hear many complaints about Class 222 Meridians because many of them are at least 7 cars long. Class 800 seems to offer more seats than HST so hopefully overcrowding wont be an issue.

 

[samuelmorris]

In electric mode, the 800's are definitely quicker than an HST and slightly quicker than a Class 180 Adelante. But the Class 395 ' Javelins seem to accelerate quicker and have a higher top speed.

Which makes sense, aren't the traction motors essentially the same? 12 of them for 130m as opposed to 16 for 120m...

 

[YorkshireBear]

Which makes sense, aren't the traction motors essentially the same? 12 of them for 130m as opposed to 16 for 120m...

And the massive diesel engines dont help.

 

[Railperf]

They seem to be pegged back to a Department For Transport specified acceleration rate of 0.7m/s/s to minimise wear on the rails and wheelsets I guess. And possibly to minimise power consumption from the overhead line equipment.

 

[samuelmorris]

They seem to be pegged back to a Department For Transport specified acceleration rate of 0.7m/s/s to minimise wear on the rails and wheelsets I guess. And possibly to minimise power consumption from the overhead line equipment.

Even on electric mode? I didn't know that. Also, if the acceleration rating is only for up to 30mph, it's of almost no relevance. For 125mph stock what will really matter is how many minutes it takes to do the rest, especially if several stops are involved, which is more an issue on the GWML than ECML as far as I can tell.

 

[Railperf]

 

[samuelmorris]

Fair enough, I think I remember that graph from a long time ago now that you mention it. It does seem quite low, though, compared to other contemporary EMUs. Perhaps solely because of the extra weight?

 

[TwistedMentat]

Fair enough, I think I remember that graph from a long time ago now that you mention it. It does seem quite low, though, compared to other contemporary EMUs. Perhaps solely because of the extra weight?

I would think super high acceleration is not viewed as needed as these will be doing longer distances between stations. While more suburban EMUs are doing lots of stops and starts.

The biggest problem with Voyagers replacing HST's was the fact that a 4 or 5 car voyager had far fewer seats than the HST and therefore suffered overcrowding. Otherwise, i dont find Voyagers a bad train to travel in. You dont hear many complaints about Class 222 Meridians because many of them are at least 7 cars long. Class 800 seems to offer more seats than HST so hopefully overcrowding wont be an issue.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-31831603

A nine-carriage Hitachi 800/801 will carry 627 people - 18% more than the InterCity 125.

 

[Railperf]

Good acceleration in the upper range is important when accelerating away from TSR's and signals at caution. No point having a train that cannot get to and maintain linespeed. HST's were designed to spend longer distances than at present at 125mph, therefore acceleration was less of an issue. With more station stops being inserted into the schedule, you need a train that can get back to linespeed quickly enough, otherwise you expend excessive energy.

 

[samuelmorris]

I would think super high acceleration is not viewed as needed as these will be doing longer distances between stations. While more suburban EMUs are doing lots of stops and starts.

Agreed but it still makes a difference. I will be interested to see how the 801s compare with the reduced weight, in particular against the 91s. The ECML is more familiar to me as I used to travel on it regularly. While I'm sure the longer distance services won't see much benefit, the stopping services terminating at York will probably shave a fair few minutes off as a result.

 

[Railperf]

My take on the specification is that the focus was on more seats, improved reliability, reduce maintenance and day-to-day running costs with emphasis on efficiency, increased health and safety and compliance with the latest accessibility standards

 

[Dai Corner]

My take on the specification is that the focus was on more seats, improved reliability, reduce maintenance and day-to-day running costs with emphasis on efficiency, increased health and safety and compliance with the latest accessibility standards

That's probably true. Shorter journey times will be offered to longer distance passengers by running additional trains with fewer stops and there is no particular need for higher performance on diesel, particularly once the wires are up to Cardiff and Thingley Jn

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

When are the First Class seat cushions going Green? I was told on here that they would.

GWRs Instagram said there would be a full interior change is this still happening?

 

[SaveECRewards]

Is anyone else disappointed that Geoff and Vicki (@allthestations) did a promotional piece for VTEC saying the Azuma is inspiring a new generation. Most of the 800's people see (and share on Twitter to VTEC as Azumas) are ones going to GWR (except for the one in VTEC livery).

When VTEC finally get the Azuma in service it will have been over a year in service with GWR but I'm sure the mainstream press will lap up the VTEC press releases claiming it's something new, I wish people who knew better wouldn't encourage their spin machine.

The video was shared on various social channels, here's a link to it on Twitter: https://twitter.com/virgin_trainsec/status/930052675756060677

 

[samuelmorris]

Virgin have always been very good at promoting brand image though, that's hardly surprising. The people tweeting about the units to VTEC are presumably those who will benefit from them running VTEC services over GWR services so although it may be factually questionable I don't really see what difference it makes.

 

[SaveECRewards]

Virgin have always been very good at promoting brand image though, that's hardly surprising. The people tweeting about the units to VTEC are presumably those who will benefit from them running VTEC services over GWR services so although it may be factually questionable I don't really see what difference it makes.

What's annoying about it is there's been a drop in quality over the year on VTEC services, also morale has dropped among their great staff (I was told voluntary redundancy was oversubscribed and they had to turn people down), we're in a worse state than we were last year but are paying more for the privilege. So it does annoy me when VTEC claim credit for things they have nothing to do with. Thanks to GWR when the Azuma does launch on the ECML most of the teething issues will already be resolved.

To put it into context, think back to 2012 when VTWC lost their franchise. So many of the public believed if First got the franchise the Pendolinos would vanish and be replaced with old trains. If the public knew that Virgin didn't own the trains and received massive subsidies in the early years I think fewer people would have signed the petition.

 

[aar0]

When are the First Class seat cushions going Green? I was told on here that they would.

GWRs Instagram said there would be a full interior change is this still happening?

I said that; GWR PR told me but didn't give a timescale, although I got the impression they wanted to do it sooner rather than later.

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

How are these going to be shown in the timetables? Will they have a “H” above them like they do with the HSTs? They are High Speed Services after all.

 

[Wilts Wanderer]

There will be no distinction in the pocket timetables between 800 and HST.

On a side note - it sounds like the first weekend diagram will be this Saturday, one pair of 800s only, coming off North Pole. No idea which diagram but hopefully RTT might indicate based on ECS moves?

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

There will be no distinction in the pocket timetables between 800 and HST.

On a side note - it sounds like the first weekend diagram will be this Saturday, one pair of 800s only, coming off North Pole. No idea which diagram but hopefully RTT might indicate based on ECS moves?

So when the HSTs are gone the IETs will continue to be shown under the H symbol?

And the only reason there is not distinction at the moment is because they have been around since May (the timetables) and the IETs have only done workings since October.

 

[Wilts Wanderer]

No - the H symbol disappears from the upcoming timetable change. I believe there will just be a letter/symbol indicating first class, catering (of some form) and the need to reserve bicycles.

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

No - the H symbol disappears from the upcoming timetable change. I believe there will just be a letter/symbol indicating first class, catering (of some form) and the need to reserve bicycles.

Gasp! Wow, how did you manage to see the timetables?! I’ve been dying for those to come out!

 

[Wilts Wanderer]

That is for you to ask, and for me to know!

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

That is for you to ask, and for me to know!

Exactly! That’s why I asked!

PS: I think the expression is “for me to know and you to find out,”

If you meant that - well, that’s me told!

 

[Wilts Wanderer]

Yes but that implies that I want you to find out, which is very much not going to happen!

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

Yes but that implies that I want you to find out, which is very much not going to happen!

Of course not - confidentiality should remain confidential. I respect that, man, whatever -
cool. I’m not going to force anything out of you! Although it is gonna happen actually when the timetables come out. Which I wish they’d hurry up and do!! But a discussion on timetables has no place in this thread so I shall move on from that. (Although if they’re gonna show what is an Electrostar service they ought to indicate what is a High Speed service too!)

Wonder if they’ll cease indicating the stock for XC too then. That’s tough chiz if so,
I prey on that for finding out which of their trains are HSTs.

Anyway, thanks for answering my initial question! Z.

 

[samuelmorris]

Ideally speaking it'd seem logical simply to advertise the number of vehicles in the formation. That'd help with where to stand on the platform, and it'd also give a good indication of what will be forming the service. 4/8/12 can't be an 800, and 5/10 can't be a 387. Determining if it's a Voyager or not should be as simple as looking at the TOC if you had that information.