GWR Class 800

[TT-ONR-NRN]

Ideally speaking it'd seem logical simply to advertise the number of vehicles in the formation. That'd help with where to stand on the platform, and it'd also give a good indication of what will be forming the service. 4/8/12 can't be an 800, and 5/10 can't be a 387. Determining if it's a Voyager or not should be as simple as looking at the TOC if you had that information.

Yes! That would definitely be useful! Didn’t FCC used to do that? LM do it too don’t they?

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

Determining if it's a Voyager or not should be as simple as looking at the TOC if you had that information.

Nah I mean differentiating between XC HSTs and Voyagers. Z

 

[samuelmorris]

Yes! That would definitely be useful! Didn’t FCC used to do that? LM do it too don’t they?

Lots of TOCs have done it for peak time, no idea about GWR though.

Nah I mean differentiating between XC HSTs and Voyagers. Z

Again, number of vehicles would tell you that would it not?

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

Again, number of vehicles would tell you that would it not?

Yes, but the new timetables don’t have that I don’t think...

 

[Dai Corner]

Nah I mean differentiating between XC HSTs and Voyagers. Z

The average passenger won't care. Those who do care will probably have found forums like this where the diagrams are posted.

 

[Tom Smith]

After a year of chronic disruption, the much vaunted hybrid new express trains are being rolled out on the GWR line. And what a farce. Seats so bum numbingly hard and uncomfortable in standard class I forked out for First on the next journey. No luck there either: First Class is about as luxurious as Russian bus and if I were a First Class season ticket holder I'd be ranting. Refreshments? The buffet car has been replaced by poorly stocked trolleys. And, surprise surprise, on any busy journey (ie until 9 and after 3 every day during the week and all day on weekends) they can't move up and down the carriages: a problem as stupidly obvious as being driven at by a tank. Add to all this the cold, naff, industrial interiors and eye popping strip lighting and you have the starkest step backwards in a customer offering I have ever experienced. How could they get it so stinkingly wrong? How could they ever have thought such a pisspoor customer experience would be acceptable for long distance travel? I'm truly gobsmacked. Add to that a lot of disappointment and even a bit of anger given the months of disruption us poor commuters have faced for so long..... I despair.

 

[gordonthemoron]

that's what you get when the DfT designs the trains

 

[YorkshireBear]

that's what you get when the DfT designs the trains

This is why whenever people go rabbiting on about nationalisation i simply go

Same with the class 700, a poor train i mean no wifi!!! seriously. Another government job.

The hard seats however are a symptom of the industry as opposed to specifically DfT.

 

[wipers]

I've not been on one of the new trains yet but from the pictures I've seen and reviews read, I agree with many of the points raised above. I actually went on one of the Class 395 Javelins (part of the same AT300 family) recently and was very surprised at how poor the interiors were on those - not that old but already looking very dated and in a pretty poor condition, although that may be more to do with the franchisee than the train itself, even if the materials didn't look terribly robust. I also agree completely re the 700 - really, really poor in so many ways.

 

[HowardGWR]

I always get a little suspish when a newcomer just joins and then has a rant. We've had that before. Nevertheless, if Tom (welcome) has had that experience, that's how it is. Trolleys are a feature of my own class 159 service and they work fine with give and take in the aisles and it's the same on an aircraft. Also one usually grabs a bite before boarding and that's for a 3 hour journey. On the proposed 80 minute one from Bristol to Pad, I would have thought a trolley more than adequate.

 

[Minilad]

After a year of chronic disruption, the much vaunted hybrid new express trains are being rolled out on the GWR line. And what a farce. Seats so bum numbingly hard and uncomfortable in standard class I forked out for First on the next journey. No luck there either: First Class is about as luxurious as Russian bus and if I were a First Class season ticket holder I'd be ranting. Refreshments? The buffet car has been replaced by poorly stocked trolleys. And, surprise surprise, on any busy journey (ie until 9 and after 3 every day during the week and all day on weekends) they can't move up and down the carriages: a problem as stupidly obvious as being driven at by a tank. Add to all this the cold, naff, industrial interiors and eye popping strip lighting and you have the starkest step backwards in a customer offering I have ever experienced. How could they get it so stinkingly wrong? How could they ever have thought such a ****poor customer experience would be acceptable for long distance travel? I'm truly gobsmacked. Add to that a lot of disappointment and even a bit of anger given the months of disruption us poor commuters have faced for so long..... I despair.

Come on now. Get off the fence and tell us what you really think

 

[RichmondCommu]

Oh well it's just a train when all said and done. No need to get worked up over it.

 

[AlterEgo]

Oh well it's just a train when all said and done. No need to get worked up over it.

I vote for this to be the forum strapline!

 

[WelshBluebird]

Trolleys are a feature of my own class 159 service and they work fine with give and take in the aisles and it's the same on an aircraft.

Except on an aircraft you don't have long sections of the journey where people are standing and thus blocking the aisle. On GWR journeys, you do. Infact the use of a trolley is probably my biggest issue with the class 800's.

 

[Noam]

Howard, I suspect your 159s don't get as crowded as FGW's IEPs are going to get, especially as we'll inevitably end up with 5-cars on busy runs. If anyone is undecided about whether trolleys are a good idea, try travelling around on XC Voyagers for a week and report back.

 

[plymothian]

If anyone is undecided about whether trolleys are a good idea, try travelling around on XC Voyagers for a week and report back.

But it's what passengers want!

 

[al78]

Except on an aircraft you don't have long sections of the journey where people are standing and thus blocking the aisle. On GWR journeys, you do. Infact the use of a trolley is probably my biggest issue with the class 800's.

On an aircraft, you will often get served a meal at your seat, even in economy class. You don't on a train.

 

[al78]

Oh well it's just a train when all said and done. No need to get worked up over it.

By that argument no-one should ever challenge things that are sub-optimal, flaky or shoddy? A great advocacy for regression.

 

[Noam]

I'm not convinced it is what passengers want. Yes I can see the benefit of being served at-seat, and I like being able to buy a Doom Bar on a Bournemouth starter after a Sat afternoon on the beach. This is far outweighed however by the disadvantages which include:

- Large numbers of standees resulting from demand far outstripping supply, at all times of the day, seven days a week, not just in the peak
- Luggage in aisles resulting from H&S rules which prevent overhead racks that can take full-size suitcases
- Frequent outages of contactless payment, or even any form of card payment at all
- Inability to serve hot food
- Inability to serve properly cold drinks
- Inability to stock enough food to cope with events like, er mealtimes
- Infrequent passes by the trolley, generally once between BHM and RDG for eg... not much use if it's 5 min before you are going to get off

Sorry to go off into XC territory, but the point I am trying to make is that, whereas a trolley might be adequate on a three-car regional train, it doesn't really work properly on what is [or should be] a long-distance inter-city service. Furthermore XC have been trying for ten years to make it work and haven't been able to. This lesson should have informed the FGW decision, but I fear it did not.

 

[Noam]

Re the hard seats - I have a bad back and hard, supportive seats are much more comfortable for me than soft, wallowy ones. One man's meat etc.

 

[broadgage]

I agree with the negative views of our new member regarding the new DMUs.
For some years I stated that the absence of a buffet was a backward step, supporters of the new units stated that I was being unduly negative and implied that buffets would be supplied. Then when it became clear that this was not the case, supporters pointed out that a trolley is in fact much better and what people want.
I also suggested that it would in fact be a static trolley on many services, as has happened.

And as for the seats, padding is now VERY last year, and springing last century. SMALLER, THINNER, HARDER, is the mantra these days.

The new DMUs are in my opinion not bad suburban units, but inter city ? no way ! a 5 car DMU with no buffet and with underfloor engines simply does not feel like an intercity train. A pair of 5 car units coupled together provides extra capacity but still feels like a suburban train.
The thought of a 5 hour trip to Penzance on one of these is appalling.

 

[Darandio]

There are much more important things in life to rant about than a new train. A sense of perspective here wouldn't be such a bad thing.

I think that entirely depends on how it affects you to be honest. If you are spending £5000 per year on a season ticket and these new trains offer no improvement or even make the service worse, then I don't see an issue with having a rant about it. Alternatively if we talk about an enthusiast who is ranting about it simply because the train is displacing/replacing their beloved HST, then I do agree with you.

 

[bb21]

Howard, I suspect your 159s don't get as crowded as FGW's IEPs are going to get, especially as we'll inevitably end up with 5-cars on busy runs. If anyone is undecided about whether trolleys are a good idea, try travelling around on XC Voyagers for a week and report back.

Some of the 159s can be much much worse than the IEPs. Both have extremely busy sections on some services.

 

[cactustwirly]

From my observations onboard EMT, I see a lot more people buying from the trolley than the buffet.

 

[HowardGWR]

I presume GWR will be monitoring pax reaction and will be able to propose changes to seating if it is as negative as Tom's. If you look at all the posts on 800s, that has not been the case and there was not a syllable about the trolley service that I remember, nor in the press.

Noam, believe me, it can get very cosy indeed on a class 159!

 

[AM9]

I always get a little suspish when a newcomer just joins and then has a rant. We've had that before. Nevertheless, if Tom (welcome) has had that experience, that's how it is. Trolleys are a feature of my own class 159 service and they work fine with give and take in the aisles and it's the same on an aircraft. Also one usually grabs a bite before boarding and that's for a 3 hour journey. On the proposed 80 minute one from Bristol to Pad, I would have thought a trolley more than adequate.

Precisely, it's the duration of the journey that matters, the distance is irrelevant. There are plenty of commuters travelling every day for longer that 80 mins on trains that don't even have a trolley service.

 

[AM9]

I presume GWR will be monitoring pax reaction and will be able to propose changes to seating if it is as negative as Tom's. If you look at all the posts on 800s, that has not been the case and there was not a syllable about the trolley service that I remember, nor in the press.

Noam, believe me, it can get very cosy indeed on a class 159!

Apart from a few disgruntled ex-HST warriors, I doubt that passenger levels will be affected adversely by the design of the class 800s.
Just see how many cram onto them from next year and be assured that unlike the thread title the are anything but useless.

 

[Noam]

Apart from the lack of buffet, the unit that I have been on was very nice inside. In the main they are a vast improvement on the high-density HSTs they are replacing. It's just the lack of buffet which is disappointing. Imagine a 5-hr run to Penzance when the trolley doesn't get to you until Newton Abbott because of standees as far as Plymouth.

 

[robbeech]

After a year of chronic disruption, the much vaunted hybrid new express trains are being rolled out on the GWR line. And what a farce. Seats so bum numbingly hard and uncomfortable in standard class I forked out for First on the next journey. No luck there either: First Class is about as luxurious as Russian bus and if I were a First Class season ticket holder I'd be ranting. Refreshments? The buffet car has been replaced by poorly stocked trolleys. And, surprise surprise, on any busy journey (ie until 9 and after 3 every day during the week and all day on weekends) they can't move up and down the carriages: a problem as stupidly obvious as being driven at by a tank. Add to all this the cold, naff, industrial interiors and eye popping strip lighting and you have the starkest step backwards in a customer offering I have ever experienced. How could they get it so stinkingly wrong? How could they ever have thought such a ****poor customer experience would be acceptable for long distance travel? I'm truly gobsmacked. Add to that a lot of disappointment and even a bit of anger given the months of disruption us poor commuters have faced for so long..... I despair.

But other than that they're pretty good yeah?

 

[CosherB]

After a year of chronic disruption, the much vaunted hybrid new express trains are being rolled out on the GWR line. And what a farce. Seats so bum numbingly hard and uncomfortable in standard class I forked out for First on the next journey. No luck there either: First Class is about as luxurious as Russian bus and if I were a First Class season ticket holder I'd be ranting. Refreshments? The buffet car has been replaced by poorly stocked trolleys. And, surprise surprise, on any busy journey (ie until 9 and after 3 every day during the week and all day on weekends) they can't move up and down the carriages: a problem as stupidly obvious as being driven at by a tank. Add to all this the cold, naff, industrial interiors and eye popping strip lighting and you have the starkest step backwards in a customer offering I have ever experienced. How could they get it so stinkingly wrong? How could they ever have thought such a ****poor customer experience would be acceptable for long distance travel? I'm truly gobsmacked. Add to that a lot of disappointment and even a bit of anger given the months of disruption us poor commuters have faced for so long..... I despair.

Have you travelled on Russian buses?