GwR HSTs to be stood down

[JonathanH]

Where is the best place to catch as many as possible in a day ?

Patchway to Weston-super-Mare on a Freedom Travelpass - https://travelwest.info/tickets-travelcards/freedom-travelpass-bus-rail-passes

Tiverton Parkway to Plymouth on a Devon Day Ranger

Plymouth to Penzance on a Cornwall Day Ranger https://www.gwr.com/your-tickets/choosing-your-ticket/rangers-and-rovers

 

[Horizon22]

There's seriously that many 80x to fix? Good gravy!

As for the GTi HSTs, it really will be a shame to see them go. The end of the class that got me onto the scene in the first place, it will be a sad day. It's not the same these days, granted. I'll certainly be making a few more trips to the South West in the coming months by the looks of it!

Well yes, pretty much all of them.

 

[Trainbike46]

All this talk about 80x replacing the HSTs, does that mean that the rumours about the cornwall mainline going hourly were incorrect?

 

[HamworthyGoods]

All this talk about 80x replacing the HSTs, does that mean that the rumours about the cornwall mainline going hourly were incorrect?

They were just that, rumours.

 

[Trainbike46]

thank god

 

[Techniquest]

Well yes, pretty much all of them.

Obviously I'm not following the cracking drama, I was to begin with but I was perhaps naively assuming a decent number of the 80x would have been done by now. Clearly I was wrong, but I'll leave it at that to avoid any more off-topicness

If they're running on Sunday, I might have to pop out and do some of the GTi HSTs on Sunday in combination with a cycle ride. Unlike the Sunday just gone, I hope to actually make it to Gloucester this time (don't ask me about how frustrated I was after a road in Ledbury stopped that plan)!

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

I wonder if a farewell event will happen? Personally I'd consider it to be pointless, as all of that hoo-ha already happened in 2019, to appease the HST fans back when they worked their final services as the Intercity train they were notorious for being. I wouldn't say there's anything notable about their short career as little Regional things shuffling up and down at sub 90mph

 

[HamworthyGoods]

I wonder if a farewell event will happen? Personally I'd consider it to be pointless, as all of that hoo-ha already happened in 2019, to appease the HST fans back when they worked their final services as the Intercity train they were notorious for being. I wouldn't say there's anything notable about their short career as little Regional things shuffling up and down at sub 90mph

Oooh, you’ll get the HST froth going

 

[TrainTrackJack]

I wonder if a farewell event will happen? Personally I'd consider it to be pointless, as all of that hoo-ha already happened in 2019, to appease the HST fans back when they worked their final services as the Intercity train they were notorious for being. I wouldn't say there's anything notable about their short career as little Regional things shuffling up and down at sub 90mph

No reason to not though - let's not forget, even the FGW 142s had a Farewell tour in the early part of the last decade. Even better if a charitable cause benefits from it - and I'm sure there will be plenty of people willing to go on one.

That's just my view of course, and you're perfectly entitled to yours

As for Laira, will it reach a stage fairly soon where all heavy maintenance ceases? And then those requiring it are withdrawn, and the others who only need minor attention escape the cull until its the end?

 

[43096]

As for Laira, will it reach a stage fairly soon where all heavy maintenance ceases? And then those requiring it are withdrawn, and the others who only need minor attention escape the cull until its the end?

There will be a rundown plan that will take into account things like mileage to next major exam (E/F/G exam) and hours to next engine change (ie engine due QL3 or QL4).

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

Even better if a charitable cause benefits from it - and I'm sure there will be plenty of people willing to go on one.

That's a nice point admittedly.

 

[davetheguard]

but it will be bye bye to Cornish half hourly. A regressive step in my opinion, I only hope it turns out not to be true.

All this talk about 80x replacing the HSTs, does that mean that the rumours about the cornwall mainline going hourly were incorrect?

They were just that, rumours.

Cornwall retains its two train an hour on the main line. This is truly excellent news!

 

[Pete_uk]

Would this be why the drivers at Par are to get IET training, as I saw on these messages boards a short while ago?

 

[Mike Machin]

If "them" is the Castle HSTs, then I quite agree. Give me a 158 any day. As a Cardiff resident I'll certainly appreciate taking an IET to Bristol or beyond instead. They're exceptionally lucky to have lasted as long as they have. 1976 - 2023 (would be 2024 if they lasted a month longer) is not bad at all.


I hardly think that's a major concern in the grand scheme of things.

They’ve certainly had a good innings - had the Kings remained in service a similar length of time they would have still been in service in 1974, or Canton’s Britannia’s would still have been romping up to Paddington in 1998!

 

[IKB]

Would this be why the drivers at Par are to get IET training, as I saw on these messages boards a short while ago?

I expect so, as they are diagrammed to drive the PZ-Cardiff trains.

 

[snakeydave24]

As for Laira, will it reach a stage fairly soon where all heavy maintenance ceases? And then those requiring it are withdrawn, and the others who only need minor attention escape the cull until its the end?

I doubt it, they still have the Cross Country stuff and I’m sure other things will
make their way down there. All will come out in due course

 

[Bikeman78]

Lets hope the lucky souls actually get a chance to drive them or perhaps they should stop the course and reset it to an IET one.

As a comparison, I saw trainees on 317s up until a few weeks before the end. If they stop training too early then you end up with some drivers who only sign the new trains and others that haven't converted to the new ones yet. Very messy to roster, I'd imagine, and that's before on the day set swaps happen.

 

[irish_rail]

As a comparison, I saw trainees on 317s up until a few weeks before the end. If they stop training too early then you end up with some drivers who only sign the new trains and others that haven't converted to the new ones yet. Very messy to roster, I'd imagine, and that's before on the day set swaps happen.

GwR already looks very much like that at the moment anyway at none HSS depots!

 

[Bikeman78]

GwR already looks very much like that at the moment anyway at none HSS depots!

Fair enough. Foolishly, I thought that everyone down west would sign everything but that's clearly not the case. Must be challenging for people in resources.

 

[Annetts key]

I wonder if a farewell event will happen? Personally I'd consider it to be pointless, as all of that hoo-ha already happened in 2019, to appease the HST fans back when they worked their final services as the Intercity train they were notorious for being. I wouldn't say there's anything notable about their short career as little Regional things shuffling up and down at sub 90mph

[pedantic mode]
They are timed at 110mph on lines that do have a line speed of 110mph (or more), and yes, that includes part of the main line between Bristol Temple Meads and Penzance. Although I don’t know how fast drivers are permitted to drive them at.

For the record:

• South Liberty (near Parson Street station) to Uphill Junction (near Weston-super-Mare) is all 100mph.
• Uphill Junction to Huntspill (near Highbridge & Burnham station) is all 110mph.
• Huntspill to Cowley Bridge Junction (near Exeter St. Davids station) is all 100mph.

Granted, the rest of the line to Penzance is never going to trouble a Castle (or indeed any 125mph train such as an 80X) in terms of speed.
[/pedantic mode]

I too will be very sorry to see the Castle class HSTs go. I travel on them quite a lot. I don’t care what anyone else says, since the MK2 carriages and heritage DMUs were withdrawn, they have (by a long way) by far the best seats, ride quality, and apart from the occasional noise from the air conditioning, have nice quiet carriages. And they have nice big windows.

In comparison, the 150 class sprinters, 158’s, Turbos, Voyagers and 80X trains are absolutely rubbish.

Worse, it appears that the Castle class HSTs are being withdrawn without any new trains/stock to replace them. So this is pure cuts under the government’s cost cutting programme.

If they were being withdrawn and replaced with new, comfortable trains, it would be good news.

As others have said, there are likely to be cuts and withdrawals elsewhere as this Conservative government scrambles to cut whatever it thinks it can get away with.

 

[TurboMan]

No it’s a minority who drives HSTs and are also trained on IETs. Big changes for conductors / train managers too.

There’s a lot of staff to train, hence the phased replacement.

I might have misunderstood your point but there are ~450 drivers who sign 255, ~300 of which also sign 80x, so it's the majority rather than a minority.

 

[170UTD]

Following the timetable change, are we likely to see any 43s (and coaches) go for storage or are GWR keeping them all for the time being?

 

[Wyrleybart]

Worse, it appears that the Castle class HSTs are being withdrawn without any new trains/stock to replace them. So this is pure cuts under the government’s cost cutting programme.

If they were being withdrawn and replaced with new, comfortable trains, it would be good news.

As others have said, there are likely to be cuts and withdrawals elsewhere as this Conservative government scrambles to cut whatever it thinks it can get away with.

Sadly that is the case. All the money spent on the power doors at Doncaster doesn't seem to be being recouped.

On the other hand I hear a rumour XC03 is still at Doncaster on it's delayed overhaul because Wabtec cannot get the replacement parts they need

 

[HamworthyGoods]

Sadly that is the case. All the money spent on the power doors at Doncaster doesn't seem to be being recouped.

On the other hand I hear a rumour XC03 is still at Doncaster on it's delayed overhaul because Wabtec cannot get the replacement parts they need

Indeed another reason behind stepping down the HSTs is obtaining parts is becoming increasingly difficult and more costly, which obviously is incompatible with a real term reduction in budget.

 

[brad465]

RAIL have this story as the latest headline cover, beating strike action interestingly.

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

RAIL have this story as the latest headline cover, beating strike action interestingly.

You say interestingly, but more additions to the series of strike periods that have happened this year aren't exactly surprising stories anymore. I rather like the tactic of headlining a story that may not be what everyone is talking about, but has more chance of attracting attention rather than someone thinking "oh, not more about the strikes" and declining buying the magazine as it's talking about what's available for free in the METRO or online



I wonder how the first day of IET takeover on Regionals went, and whether many passengers noticed - and if there was any hoo-ha over first class.

 

[Annetts key]

I wonder how the first day of IET takeover on Regionals went, and whether many passengers noticed - and if there was any hoo-ha over first class.

Given that to most passengers, it’s a bit random on what actually turns up, I’m not sure that it made any significant difference.

IETs already ran between Bristol Temple Meads and Penzance anyway. And sometimes in the past an IET has ran in place of a 2+4 Castle Class HST. Or a Turbo has ran in place of one.

Plus Turbos run on this route anyway.

The biggest issue with first class, is that it means that the first class area will be just carting ‘fresh’ air around. While GWR mix and match between 2+4 Castle Class HST (only standard class available) and five car 80X IETs, they can’t really sell first class tickets.

It also means, like last week on one I traveled on, it’s a longer walk to board the train at Bristol, because first class happened to be at the London end. So all the passengers had to walk past it to board the standard class section. This was 2C07 before the timetable change.

The following day, for this particular service (2C07), it was back to a 2+4 Castle Class HST again!

Whichever way you look at it, from the passenger point of view, it’s not very consistent.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I wonder how the first day of IET takeover on Regionals went

I reckon most people who notice will have seen it as an upgrade - "ooh, a nice new train, not that old tat London didn't want any more". The Castles really have an old, unloved feel to them, with scruffy interiors, few tables etc. Very much different from the ScotRail ones, and more like the way BR might have chucked some old Mk2s and an ancient loco on it.

and whether many passengers noticed - and if there was any hoo-ha over first class.

I doubt it given that the London service which provides half the Cornwall regional service has 1st so they already know not to sit there.

Whichever way you look at it, from the passenger point of view, it’s not very consistent.

Welcome to being like Northern, where the random unit generator is king!

 

[Annetts key]

I reckon most people who notice will have seen it as an upgrade - "ooh, a nice new train, not that old tat London didn't want any more". The Castles really have an old, unloved feel to them, with scruffy interiors, few tables etc. Very much different from the ScotRail ones, and more like the way BR might have chucked some old Mk2s and an ancient loco on it.

Don’t joke about that! In the past, back when Bath Road Diesel Depot existed, for local/regional services, when they ran short on DMUs, they did couple class 47 locos to whatever motley collection of MK2 coaches they could find! Although, some did have some nice seats, it was not unknown for most of them to be brake second opens, so carting an amount of ‘fresh’ air around.

Welcome to being like Northern, where the random unit generator is king!

Oh! It’s historical to have random stock in this area too! This is certainly not something new. Just disappointing that it keeps happening again, and again.

Obviously the 800 and 802 are new. Just so disappointing that they are so rubbish. The 2+4 Castle Class HST may be the oldest on the network. But at least they have the very comfortable Grammer seats and the interior has been tarted up relatively nicely (unlike the Turbos in this area).

 

[D6130]

You say interestingly, but more additions to the series of strike periods that have happened this year aren't exactly surprising stories anymore. I rather like the tactic of headlining a story that may not be what everyone is talking about, but has more chance of attracting attention rather than someone thinking "oh, not more about the strikes" and declining buying the magazine as it's talking about what's available for free in the METRO or online

I find myself agreeing with you here for once. If we're not careful, this could become habit-forming!