GWR Intercity Express Train (IEP) initial diagrams & allocations

[II]

The goods shed siding was rarely used by passenger stock and generally only in emergencies, like terminating an ailing dmu that was blocking the line with another service stuck behind it. I think a 180 ended up there in disgrace after overheating and triggering the fire suppression system near Charlbury in the middle of the last decade, but that was probably the last time. Normally it was the domain of track machines.

Certainly that was the case since the turn of the century up until its removal (as was the case with the up refuse siding you mentioned earlier), but IIRC it was regularly used up until the mid to late 90s to layover the daily Turbo that formed the 'Halts' train which in those days terminated at Moreton-In-Marsh, had a layover of around 30-35 minutes to let the first of the Hereford HSTs through, and then restarted as a service from Moreton to either Worcester or Malvern.

 

[jimm]

Certainly that was the case since the turn of the century up until its removal (as was the case with the up refuse siding you mentioned earlier), but IIRC it was regularly used up until the mid to late 90s to layover the daily Turbo that formed the 'Halts' train which in those days terminated at Moreton-In-Marsh, had a layover of around 30-35 minutes to let the first of the Hereford HSTs through, and then restarted as a service from Moreton to either Worcester or Malvern.

Gap in my local residency at that time, so I must have missed out on that peculiarity, but do remember the siding being full of vans bringing in fertiliser in the 1970s. I suppose that way of operating the Turbo provided a connection from London, of sorts, for Honeybourne and Pershore (which the HST sped through non-stop).

It does make you realise how patchy the Cotswold Line service was not all that long ago, compared with what is coming from December (if we set aside, for a moment, the removal of most afternoon peak calls at Reading by down trains) and the difference in quality and consistency of the service, with an almost 100 per cent IET operation, rather than a pretty random mix of 165s, 166s and the odd HST and the gaps in services at various points in the day.

 

[Kite159]

All IETs except for one of the late evening ones I believe.

And, from December, the evening 'all shacks' service is also a Turbo - running as far as Moreton-In-Marsh, before returning to Oxford at 19:10.

So a 2-coach Turbo working as the 17:23 service from Oxford towards Moreton...

...Will it be a case of how many commuters for Hanborough/Charlbury can squeeze onto a Turbo challenge?

 

[II]

It certainly won’t be empty but with the 16:44 before and 17:45 following it, the latter in effect an additional train, and only going as far as Moreton, I doubt it’ll be too packed.

A little like the opposite Turbo arrival in the morning which usually has a few seats free.

 

[jimm]

It certainly won’t be empty but with the 16:44 before and 17:45 following it, the latter in effect an additional train, and only going as far as Moreton, I doubt it’ll be too packed.

A little like the opposite Turbo arrival in the morning which usually has a few seats free.

If someone finishes work at 5pm in central Oxford, then they are not able to get the 16.44 and won't want to wait for the 17.45, so they will continue to do what they do now and get on the 17.2x departure.

As far as I can see, GWR's attitude is that even though the two-car Turbo is odds-on to be full and standing on departure from Oxford, given the growth in custom at Hanborough in particular, 50 or 60 people will get off there 10 minutes later, so that will somehow 'fix' the problem. And they are not going to provide a three-car 165, even though they now have a solution available to the old issue of Turbos not having selective door controls, which made operating the afternoon halts service so troublesome for so many years.

This despite the fact that anyone can see the sheer number of people on the platform at Oxford waiting to board the the current 17.25 departure (precious few of whom are going to stations beyond Moreton-in-Marsh, so removal of Worcestershire passengers from this service won't make much difference to numbers). And there will inevitably be people who continue to want a 16.20ish departure off Paddington (or have an off-peak ticket) and will be changing at Oxford for the halts train, rather than rushing for the 15.50, or delaying their departure until 16.58 - which is a peak train for ticketing purposes out of Paddington.

It also remains to be seen what people will make of the morning hals service running about 15 minutes later than it has for many years, to even out the intervals between trains heading to Oxford. Some people who start work in Oxford at 8.30 must be hoping they have understanding employers, as an 8.25 arrival removes their current walking time to places in the heart of the city.

 

[II]

You might be right, jimm - we'll find out in a couple of months. I know the current halts train is a little early for some who work in Oxford, who will appreciate the extra 20 or so minutes to get to the station for this new 17:45 train, especially with the halts train moving back another two minutes to 17:23. Currently they are faced with a wait of 50 minutes for the next one so rely on understanding employers and their fitness.

Perhaps over time and with a few tweaks here and there (finding a set to cover the 18:0x to Paddington being the main one), the 16:20 IET from Paddington can be extended through to Moreton instead?

I would expect the 17:23 to be the first train to be culled if there are any issues along the Cotswold Line with the 17:45 picking up the extra stops, as that is some very tight scheduling. The 17:45 has a two minute pathing allowance anyway at Ascott for the halts train to clear the section through to Moreton-In-Marsh, so expect a clear run through Ascott to be a rare thing with that one.

 

[Kite159]

It's a bit of a shame they didn't decide to give Ascott/Shipton a decent level of service (i.e. alternate calls hourly), as out of the 4 halts those two are located in the villages so probably have untapped demand.

 

[jimm]

It's a bit of a shame they didn't decide to give Ascott/Shipton a decent level of service (i.e. alternate calls hourly), as out of the 4 halts those two are located in the villages so probably have untapped demand.

While you could probably justify a more frequent service at Shipton, Ascott ia s small village with a small population and there are only so many of them who are going to want to get the train to Oxford or anywhere else.

As we are drifting way off thread, perhaps we'd best leave it at that as this discussion has been had elsewhere previously.

 

[Mark62]

I've looked at the so called new tt with faster journey times and timing are still significantly slower than 30 years ago.

 

[JonathanH]

I've looked at the so called new tt with faster journey times and timing are still significantly slower than 30 years ago.

Yes, but there are a lot more of them than 30 years ago. Having headline fast trains isn't always better than having a comprehensive timetable with more intermediate journey possibilities.

 

[cactustwirly]

I've looked at the so called new tt with faster journey times and timing are still significantly slower than 30 years ago.

This has been explained many times before.
The GWML is much more congested than it was 30 years ago, plus with more restrictive speed limits on the approach to Paddington. Those times are simply unachievable now

 

[jimm]

I've looked at the so called new tt with faster journey times and timing are still significantly slower than 30 years ago.

There is a thread about the timetable change here
https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/gwr-dec-19-timetable.180888/page-20#post-4258000

 

[sprinterguy]

800001 has this morning reportedly become the last of GWR's 93 class 800/802 trains to enter service: The whole fleet is now available for passenger use!

 

[JonathanH]

800001 has this morning reportedly become the last of GWR's 93 class 800/802 trains to enter service: The whole fleet is now available for passenger use!

Is 800305 back to full operation?

 

[jimm]

800001 has this morning reportedly become the last of GWR's 93 class 800/802 trains to enter service: The whole fleet is now available for passenger use!

Posts elsewhere say this the diagram it is working - paired with 800010.

- 1B27 1115 Paddington - Cardiff Central
- 1L65 1356 Cardiff Central - Paddington
- 1C22 1630 Paddington - Taunton

With the empty stock then running to Stoke Gifford depot - leaves Taunton at 20.04.

 

[Clarence Yard]

Is 800305 back to full operation?

No. It is due to be out at the end of the month but that may change.

 

[83G/84D]

GWR 802010 involved in a buffer stop collision at the depot at Penzance last night.

 

[MarlowDonkey]

Would I be right in thinking that the 5 car sets follow the convention that first class is at the London end? Also when a 10 car is formed heading from the West Country to Paddington, the rear 5 carriages will have been the ones that came from Penzance.

 

[CC 72100]

Correct.

 

[7001SirJames]

Post 15th December 2019 GWR IET Diagrams - 802 Class
Not sure if this is still the correct place to post this - Moderators please correct me if not?

Having pieced together 17 802x5 car and 5 802x9 car diagrams, can anyone please confirm that the 5 cars working 2M68 1939 SX EXD to BRI goes onto Stoke Gifford to next work 1K71 0510 BRI to PAD via Westbury? Appreciate the actual sets can switch within the depot, it's the planned diagram I am asking about.
Thanks in anticipation.

 

[HowardGWR]

There was a time when some sets could only operate on diesel and then not all of the engines, which must have affected which diagrams they could be used for. Is that period now a memory, or are there still problems?

 

[irish_rail]

There was a time when some sets could only operate on diesel and then not all of the engines, which must have affected which diagrams they could be used for. Is that period now a memory, or are there still problems?

Diesel only sets tend to be very rare now, maybe one in traffic a day max. Engines out of use is still relatively common however..

 

[HowardGWR]

Diesel only sets tend to be very rare now, maybe one in traffic a day max. Engines out of use is still .relatively common however.

Those facts highlighted don't sound very rare to me, downright disastrous from a diagramming standpoint. The depots must be involved in a daily juggling act.

 

[Clarence Yard]

The depots don’t allocate- it’s done centrally by Hitachi.

Just having one engine out doesn’t affect the diagram they allocate to, that is a very normal occurrence with about a dozen to a dozen and a half units running around with one out at any one time. A diesel only coming off depot can be more troublesome but as they are mainly due to arriving at a depot that can’t do any 25kv testing, it’s usually get them back towards a London on the slowest working or one that could drop at North Pole during the day.

If an 802 has a DO restriction, it can run for quite a time before it sees a 25kv depot but with the restricted amount of 25kv timings on the west of England services, it’s less of an issue.

 

[FGW_DID]

Post 15th December 2019 GWR IET Diagrams - 802 Class
Not sure if this is still the correct place to post this - Moderators please correct me if not?

Having pieced together 17 802x5 car and 5 802x9 car diagrams, can anyone please confirm that the 5 cars working 2M68 1939 SX EXD to BRI goes onto Stoke Gifford to next work 1K71 0510 BRI to PAD via Westbury? Appreciate the actual sets can switch within the depot, it's the planned diagram I am asking about.
Thanks in anticipation.

5M68 is the last working of the diagram, the next days follow on diagram has 5K71 / 1K71 as it’s first working (in conjunction with another 5 car diagram).

As you said, the unit working M68 may not necessarily be the same unit that works K71. As CY has stated, all the daily allocations are made by Hitachi’s Central Planning Cell.

 

[Wilts Wanderer]

Those facts highlighted don't sound very rare to me, downright disastrous from a diagramming standpoint. The depots must be involved in a daily juggling act.

Doesn’t the engine management software on an IET beef up the power output from the remaining engines if an engine is out, so in theory it can still meet the diesel performance spec without losing time? Does this tally with the experience of any GWR drivers on the forum.

 

[II]

Doesn’t the engine management software on an IET beef up the power output from the remaining engines if an engine is out, so in theory it can still meet the diesel performance spec without losing time? Does this tally with the experience of any GWR drivers on the forum.

Yes. There's a drop-off, but not enough for it to be much of an issue unless you lose more than one, even two GU's out on a 9-car doesn't affect it too much. Timings are still pretty generous as some impressive runs under the tighter schedules have proved.

 

[55003]

Does anybody have a listing of the South Wales diagrams? Most of my recent travel on this route should have been two five cars but often it has been downgraded to only one..

 

[ValleyLines142]

Does anybody have a listing of the South Wales diagrams? Most of my recent travel on this route should have been two five cars but often it has been downgraded to only one..

The 0951 from Cardiff is regularly a single unit, or so it has been having caught it three times in the last two weeks. Not sure if it's just pure coincidence that it's a single however the guard on board every time mentions that seat reservations aren't in operation due to the train being short formed. Is that a cover up for the fact that it is a permanent 5 car formation?

 

[FGW_DID]

The 0951 from Cardiff is regularly a single unit, or so it has been having caught it three times in the last two weeks. Not sure if it's just pure coincidence that it's a single however the guard on board every time mentions that seat reservations aren't in operation due to the train being short formed. Is that a cover up for the fact that it is a permanent 5 car formation?

(LTP) The 09.51 from Cardiff is booked for a single 5 car 800, the diagram’s first passenger working is a run from Cheltenham to Paddington, then a couple of runs to Cardiff & back (as a 5) then joins with another diagram at Paddington for a peak period 10 car back to Cardiff.
I’ve only had a quick browse through but I think that’s the only diagram that has 5 car workings to/from S.Wales, all the rest are either 9/10 car.