GWR Turbo cascade progress to Bristol region services

[JN114]

So where are the 158s going to be going then...

Cornish Mainline, but that is outwith the scope of this thread.

 

[Siemens Staines]

When the 769 fleet arrives, the very provisional plan is to convert all the Exeter locals to 3 car Turbo (10 diagrams) as well as converting the two “Brighton” diagrams that are currently 158 into Turbos. That leaves some Turbos for service/formation enhancements in the Bristol area as well as some potential 158 service/formation enhancements.

Provisionally it frees up the 2 x 150/0 units and 10 x 150/2 units to go elsewhere. The remaining 10 x 150/2 operate the Cornish branches.

Thank you for providing this interesting information.

As I understand it there are currently 14*166 diagrams for the 17 units in Bristol, with 20*3-car units still at Reading (16*165 + 4*166). Therefore between now and Dec 2019 these 20 units would transition to cover 20 diagrams;

10 Exeter
8 Pompey-Cardiff (as part of 5-car)
2 Brighton (?as part of 5-car or 3-car solo?)

Which is no increase in the number of spare/maintenance units at Bristol than there is now, so do any of the existing 14 Bristol 166 diagrams transition to something else (perhaps GTI hst on Taunton-Cardiff), or is 34 diagrams for 37 units the intention post Dec 2019?

I apologise if I have overlooked something.

 

[Clarence Yard]

I wouldn’t try to reconcile today with what will happen when the 769 enter service - there will be a rebasing of the entire West diagrams (Turbo/158/GTi) in the interim, with additional turbos going west and introduction of the Cornish half hourly. That should happen when Newbury electrification is switched on and working.

For a start, the number of Turbo diagrams now in the West should be 14 x 166 and 4 x 165/1 2 car but with the mods programme being behind and the need to keep Turbos vice 800 sets on the Oxford runs, the West is already short on programme.

 

[Adsy125]

Is there any news on when the 166/165 combinations are going to go into service on Cardiff-Portsmouth services or if they are going to get 2+2 seating or go into service with the entirely inappropriate 3+2 seating they currently have?

 

[Clarence Yard]

The Portsmouth-Cardiff services will go Turbo fully when the Newbury line is electrified and turbos can be released to go west. It was mean’t to be December, then January and now February is mooted.

Before then there may be one or two out and home SPM diagrams that get converted but that depends on how quickly some of the Turbo mods programmes end.

The reseating of the 166 fleet (which wasn’t much anyway) was vetoed by the DfT as they didn’t want to lose the seats. They vetoed the Turbo refurb plans as well, on cost grounds. GWR will have another go when it comes to the forthcoming DA3 negotiations.

 

[cactustwirly]

The Portsmouth-Cardiff services will go Turbo fully when the Newbury line is electrified and turbos can be released to go west. It was mean’t to be December, then January and now February is mooted.

Before then there may be one or two out and home SPM diagrams that get converted but that depends on how quickly some of the Turbo mods programmes end.

The reseating of the 166 fleet (which wasn’t much anyway) was vetoed by the DfT as they didn’t want to lose the seats. They vetoed the Turbo refurb plans as well, on cost grounds. GWR will have another go when it comes to the forthcoming DA3 negotiations.

But the Newbury electrification only releases 2 x 2 car 165s.
So I don't understand where the other turbos are coming from?

 

[ATW158Xpress]

Bedwyn duties are due to move over to 5 car 800/802's once the turnback siding are extended. Also when deliveries start on the 802's in July they will gradely replace some Turbo diagrams on the Oxford fasts.

 

[Charlie M.]

If I'm honest the Class 166s are pretty bad. They look tacky, dirty, air con fails all of the time, can not hear announcements, seating layouts uncomfortable. The benefits are the capacity and the fact that the declassified first class is not too bad for comfort. If you gave me a Class 158 or a 166, a 158 any day.

If they were refurbished, you would need to strip it out fully. New carpets, seat boards, air conditioning improvements and a lot more. All of last month I had to travel 6/7 days a week on a peak time Gloucester-Bristol service and the few days it was a 158 it wasn't that more crowded and was a lot more comfortable.

 

[supervc-10]

Various people have mentioned air conditioning (on the 166s) vs air cooling (on the 165s). What's the difference?

 

[cactustwirly]

Various people have mentioned air conditioning (on the 166s) vs air cooling (on the 165s). What's the difference?

A the 165 air cooling actually works!
B the 165s don't have a dehumidifier

 

[supervc-10]

I thought an air conditioning system works as a dehumidifier anyway? In my car the A/C comes on automatically when turned to demist for this reason.

But certainly good to hear that the cascaded 165s will be getting cold air. Memories of being packed into them on the TVL semi-fasts in summer... unpleasant!

 

[cactustwirly]

I thought an air conditioning system works as a dehumidifier anyway? In my car the A/C comes on automatically when turned to demist for this reason.

But certainly good to hear that the cascaded 165s will be getting cold air. Memories of being packed into them on the TVL semi-fasts in summer... unpleasant!

Exactly, that's why it's called air cooling

 

[supervc-10]

I thought you meant that the 166 system has a separate dehumidifier? I think I'm getting confused!

How does the 165 system work then? I'd have presumed that it was a standard evaporator and condenser circuit like any A/C system.

 

[cactustwirly]

I thought you meant that the 166 system has a separate dehumidifier? I think I'm getting confused!

How does the 165 system work then? I'd have presumed that it was a standard evaporator and condenser circuit like any A/C system.

The 165s only cool the air.
The 166s cool the air and dehumidify it.

 

[supervc-10]

Yeah, I get that, but how? Standard A/C systems dehumidify the air not with a separate dehumidifier but by water condensing out of the air as it is chilled- cold air cannot hold as much air as warm air. This is why your freezer fills with frost if you leave the door ajar- the warm, wet air of your kitchen flows into the freezer, the water condenses out of the air, and forms frost. This is also why A/C systems in cars need periodic cleaning if they're not regularly used- the moisture left behind after being run forms a lovely environment for things to grow unless it's regularly cooled and allowed to drain.

Do trains normally have a dehumidifier in addition to the the cooling circuit? Which the 165 lacks?

 

[superalbs]

166212 seen in photos at Exeter St Davids in P2.

I am not sure, but given that this service is booked as a turbo:
http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/C40825/2018/07/01/advanced

And it ended on the same platform at Bristol Temple Meads that formed the service to Exeter St Davids:
http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/C46663/2018/07/01/advanced

Which happens to end in P2, where the photo was taken, I think this could possibly be the first passenger service for a turbo to Exeter St Davids?

 

[SWTrainspottin]

^ Next working is 2D02 0600 Exeter St Davids - Filton Abbey Wood tomorrow morning.

Also 165132 in service tonight, working 2E48 2041 Bristol Temple Meads - Cheltenham Spa.

 

[Charlie M.]

The turbo is alright but the interior is a massive downgrade. I was on 166205 and it was decent. If they raised the seats, added a couple of tables and restriped the interior it would be an improvement from the 150 and an slightly upgraded 158. I was always told on their cascade that the interior was going to be refurbished..

 

[D2007wsm]

The turbo is alright but the interior is a massive downgrade. I was on 166205 and it was decent. If they raised the seats, added a couple of tables and restriped the interior it would be an improvement from the 150 and an slightly upgraded 158. I was always told on their cascade that the interior was going to be refurbished..

Some of the interiors on the 166s are tatty compared to the 150/2s and refurbished 158s. But for comfort sit in the declassified First Class section at either end of the train. A lot of the time these seats are overlooked by passengers as they think they are still First Class. Especially the solitary 166 which as been refurbished to GWR interiors with the declassified First Class section having leather seats.

What they NEED to sort out on the 166s and I deed the 158s is the abismal aircon and if they can't, fit more lockable hopper windows which can be opened when required or make sure guards do actually open these if the aircon has gone bang.

 

[TJDevon]

Could someone provide an update on the 165/166 situation.

1) Are any 166s left at Reading?
2) How many 165s are now at Bristol?

A note of which ones in both categories would be helpful and appreciated.

 

[reddragon]

Ride Height Mod 165(2 car) are the 4 that have transferred West so:

165119, 129, 131 & 132 (These should all be GWR green)

For completeness:

166: All bar 201, 217, 218 & 221 are RHM (although 218 should head to SPM this Saturday)
165 (3car): No RHM yet.

https://www.railforums.co.uk/forums/traction-rolling-stock.46/ #3265 onwards

 

[FGW_DID]

Today there was a move from RG to SPM:

3C91 Reading TCD - St Phillips Marsh

165118, 165123 & 166218.

166218 has gone for C4 work, don’t know if it’s planned to come back.

118 & 123 have gone to SPM to assist with Driver Training, due to return to RG in two weeks.

 

[PHILIPE]

Today there was a move from RG to SPM:

3C91 Reading TCD - St Phillips Marsh

165118, 165123 & 166218.

166218 has gone for C4 work, don’t know if it’s planned to come back.

118 & 123 have gone to SPM to assist with Driver Training, due to return to RG in two weeks.

166218 should be at PM but has been delayed. Unless it is for training drivers on Turbos from scratch, it has been answered on another Forum that if passed on 166s, then passed on 165s. PM should have received 4 x 165s as from a week ago but only have 129 and 132 so far

 

[FGW_DID]

That is the case but 118 & 123 have still gone for Driver Training.
165119 & 131 returned to SPM from Long Marston yesterday so now they have their four RHM sets.

 

[fgwrich]

On one of the Henley shuttles this afternoon, I noticed something new noticed on board 165126. Presumably in part readiness for a transfer down to Bristol, the DMS car has now received not one but two rather large luggage racks. Immediately behind the cab you now have this large cycle area, while further down in same vehicle you also now have a large 166 style luggage rack as well. Looking at that space I do feel the cycle provision has been a little bit overdone on these.

Sadly the Air Cooling wasnt up to much by the afternoon either, with more water spilling out of its vents and down the side again.

 

[TEW]

Assuming 126 is like 165129, the ex-First Class area now has standard 3+2 seating fitted too.

 

[Non Multi]

A massive improvement on 0 cycle spaces (in the 165s). Much better than wedging a bike within one side of a vestibule or/and getting in everyone's way.

 

[fgwrich]

Assuming 126 is like 165129, the ex-First Class area now has standard 3+2 seating fitted too.

Unfortunately I didn't get the chance to look, but I'll have to keep an eye out for that. A bit of a shame that it's gone but understandable. Have they replaced the frankly disgusting carpet with FGW Lino?

I'll agree that it's an improvement for cycle spaces in these units, but I do wonder whether the additional 166 Style luggage rack is a bit of an overkill (taking up 1 entire window bay) given the huge space provided by this thing - certainly for a 2 car unit anyway.

 

[railfan26]

That is the case but 118 & 123 have still gone for Driver Training.
165119 & 131 returned to SPM from Long Marston yesterday so now they have their four RHM sets.

any idea what they have been diagramed to work?

 

[Apedlar12]

any idea what they have been diagramed to work?

My guess would be a pair on a Weymouth diagram and singulars on the Cheltenham <> Swindon