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Had problems taking pictures of the railways?

curly42

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As the person who took the picture of the guy stood lineside - he may well be "in a position of safety" but surely the purpose of a public foot crossing is for the public to cross the line,not loiter inside the fence for the purpose of getting pictures/film ? This guy was hanging around in this position for over an hour. Another view of the crossing,from the side on which he was stood,is here -

http://www.railpictures.net/viewphoto.php?id=302635

The smaller sign above the large one reads " warning - do not trespass on the railway. Penalty £1000".

I guess the question is "does this qualify as trespass" ?
 
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GB

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mark 500 (25 hours ago | reply)

Hello everyone firstly its a public foot crossing so i'm not tresspassing on the line. I'm also not close to the train either and drivers are always suppose to blow the horn when approaching foot crossings hence why there are boards by foot crossings with a w on them. That day Network Rail did visit the crossing while i was there and never said a word about my presence there infact they were friendly and wished me a good day. Does it count then you climbing on the fence to get your **** pictures? I've seen people there when theres steam stood alot closer than that so up yours. You better stay away from me in future otherwise your in for it!!!!!!

Prize prick comes to mined :roll:
 

HawkeyeTheNoo

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The only trouble taking pics in a station was at Union Station in Washington D.C. I was approached and manhandled by Amtrak police who demanded my camera's memory card. I was trying to take a picture of the lovely ceiling in the foyer (you can't get near the trains unless you are travelling) I was very polite and showed them that I actually hadn't taken anything yet after which they calmed down a little. I was still escorted from the building though! :(
 

GB

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I have just joined WNXX (not sure why) and have read Curly's thread on there. Do I get the feeling that forum is completely full of real spotter type people???
 

43167

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The only trouble taking pics in a station was at Union Station in Washington D.C. I was approached and manhandled by Amtrak police who demanded my camera's memory card. I was trying to take a picture of the lovely ceiling in the foyer (you can't get near the trains unless you are travelling) I was very polite and showed them that I actually hadn't taken anything yet after which they calmed down a little. I was still escorted from the building though! :(

So much for land of the free then.
 

ralphchadkirk

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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9Nffv_Gqv6g&feature=channel_video_title

Not me but one of my friends getting threatned by a jobsworth metro driver.

Nexus realy needs to remove its policy on photography.
I don't think your friend is blameless, I've just seen one of his comments:
Thanks for the comment Caleb, It is annoying as quite a few Metro Staff are like this person here. I will be showing this video to the bosses in Metro Control and if the driver is not disciplined, I dont get a personal sorry from the driver and something from the comapny to show the are sorry...this video will be made public and I will share it accross Facebook and many Rail Forums.
So your friend is demanding the driver be disciplined, a personal apology from the driver AND something from the company then he'll run to the press. Very civilised. :roll:
 

ralphchadkirk

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Well who wouldnt demand him to be sacked because of that. These kind of folk need to be removed from the railways.

Get real! Someone who asks a trainspotter to stop filming (mistakenly) deserves to be sacked and be removed from the railways? :roll: I don't think so! If the driver was in the wrong, a quiet word confidentially with his manager is appropriate. Not a sacking! And employment tribunals wouldn't agree with you either...
 

alexdodds

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Get real! Someone who asks a trainspotter to stop filming (mistakenly) deserves to be sacked and be removed from the railways? :roll: I don't think so! If the driver was in the wrong, a quiet word confidentially with his manager is appropriate. Not a sacking! And employment tribunals wouldn't agree with you either...

Well no they shoudnt be sacked just for asking someone to stop filming that would be a bit unfair.

Only if they speak to the enthusiast in an unacceptable way like this should they be sacked. Afterall enthusiasts are customers and staff are ment to be loyal to their customers and not threaten them.

I am not trying to get in a argument. I dont like to get in one of those.
 

ralphchadkirk

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Speaking to a customer rudely is not a sackable offence. It will probably warrant a please explain, and if very serious, go on record. Any more than that would be not be proportionate.
 

Peter Mugridge

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Bear in mind also that the T&W Metro does not use ATOC rules on photography but does in fact require arrangement in advance. If Huw from the Metro is still a member on here and is reading this he could probably explain how to make such arrangements.
 

alexdodds

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Bear in mind also that the T&W Metro does not use ATOC rules on photography but does in fact require arrangement in advance. If Huw from the Metro is still a member on here and is reading this he could probably explain how to make such arrangements.

I know what the rules are but i ignore them. My friend Alex seen in the video happerns to have some sort of special permission to video.

I have videoed on the metro 10 times and only once have I had a problem and it occured in February last year.

Was filming on the train from Chichester to South Shields and when i got off at Shields 2 Chinese people you can see them in the video came up to me and accused me of filming them which i wasnt of couse. Filmed the train departing Shields and then caught up with them while walking down King Street towards the ferry, showed them the footage, they said sorry and walked away.

Other than that no trouble from staff yet.
 

ralphchadkirk

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That was NOT me in the video.

Even so, it is very hypocritical to ask for staff members to be sacked for enforcing the rules when you yourself knowingly ingore them. I bet if something similar happened to you, you would run on here demanding action, yet it would be your fault.
Other than that no trouble from staff yet
And I hope you get some, considering you deliberately ignore the rules.
 

jon0844

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How's this for irony?

This morning I was chatting with someone at Potters Bar, while waiting for my train to London, as there was a steam train coming that was going to York.

I took some photos of some spotters who should have known better, like the following:

IMG034.jpg

Before the train arrived, a long announcement was given to welcome (on behalf of FCC and Network Rail) enthusiasts to the station, and ask that people remained behind the yellow line, didn't use flash photography or go in areas that are out of bounds.

However, I'm sure that advice was being ignored by people desperate to get the perfect shot or video - going by every trains going through on platforms 2 and 3 giving the horns to warn the idiots (see above) facing the WRONG way on the up fast.

I left before the train arrived, but when I got to Finsbury Park, I decided to take a couple of photos of the new gates - which went/are going live today - before changing to get my train to Old Street.

Next thing I know, the station manager comes up to me and asks what I'm doing. I said I was taking some photos, as that's what I was doing (I suspect he knew that too). He said I wasn't allowed to take photos, so I said 'But what about the posters that welcome enthusiasts?' - even if I'm actually a mug commuter paying £3,500 a year and only changing trains.

The advice then changed to 'You have to make yourself known to staff'.

Now, until today I've never seen the station manager at Finsbury Park. I still don't know where he 'hides' and he was only out because of the fact the gate lines switch on today, and there were probably around 15 people being briefed, from high-up FCC staff to revenue staff and BTP/PCSOs.

I wanted to clarify things, so I asked if the bit about making yourself known was a law or guideline. I was told I had to do it because of the 'heightened security risk'. I asked what this new risk was (I'd like to know as that potentially puts ME at risk) and he didn't say anything so I asked if he meant the Royal Wedding.

I joked 'they're not coming through here are they?' sarcastically, purely because 'heightened security risk' seems to be the line I see mentioned everywhere people moan about the way they're spoken to by rail staff. And now I'd heard it said to me too.

He now seemed flustered and said I should make myself known out of courtesy and politeness and said there was no point in talking to me anymore, and walked back to the rest of the staff.

I bit my lip as I wanted to say "And why the f**k should I come and find you when I'm waiting to change train, so I can take a photo of a platform and a gateline that is visible to everyone who comes to the station. People who are going to be seriously disrupted by you having just five gates for one of the busiest stations on the line. I'm going to be here for all of five minutes, so why don't you perhaps concentrate on checking why your train dispatchers can't be bothered to check the train doors are safely shut and clear to prevent another Huntingdon, instead of showing your power to someone you look at with contempt."

If I'd said that, I'd have been no better than him. No doubt he felt big having done what he'd done in front of his bosses, but sadly they hadn't taken any notice of what happened at all.

I then spoke to one of the senior revenue inspectors (who I have spoken to before) about the gates, wondering what will happen during football matches and they said they had no choice but to keep them open. He then admitted they'd probably be open a lot of the time, like at WGC, and FCC was concerned with the safe operation of the side barriers to relieve pressure if (or more likely when) it goes tits up (not his exact words I hasten to add). I noticed that the one by platform 2 opens quite easily, the one on platform 1 doesn't! Serco engineers seemed to be looking on to see how they might fix things.

I mentioned the telling off for taking some pics of the gates/platform and he said 'it's an ancient byelaw - you can't take photos on railway property, so it's true' and joked that earlier all of the spotters for the very same steam train I'd seen approaching Potters Bar had been made to sign-in.

He said that if people were sad enough to want to look at trains all day, they should take the time to make themselves known. His colleague then added that they'll also make them buy a platform ticket from now on. Perhaps that's why I was picked on, as I was wearing a green rain jacket that probably made me look like a spotter.

I've attached some photos below. I wasn't asked to delete them, and once the station manager clearly knew I was there, I guess I was free to take photos as normal. I haven't posted the ones that show the other FCC staff, including the revenue officers.

Perhaps every morning when I go to FPK to get to work, I'll make myself known just in case I opt to take a photo, with my cameraphone. I really do hope that everyone else on the station does so too - as it is illegal to take photos on railway property, based on those ancient byelaws.

IMG036.jpg IMG037.jpg IMG038.jpg IMG039.jpg IMG040.jpg IMG041.jpg
 
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Huw Lewis of Nexus writes: As owner of the Tyne and Wear Metro, I am happy to clarify our position on photography and filming.
We are happy to accommodate enthusiasts who wish to take pictures on Metro. We ask that they contact the Metro Customer Relations team in advance on 0191 203 3199 to seek permission and advise where they will be. Staff will challenge photographers they see around the system and check they have permission. I recognise a couple of names on this forum as people who have done this in the past without problem.

Filming presents a greater risk because people making films are more likely to move around as they film, and may not be fully aware of their surroundings and other passengers near to them. It is worth bearing in mind that our platforms are narrower and busier than many national rail stations, increasing the risk. For this reason Metro normally requires filmakers to be accompanied, but again you can call the number above to discuss what you want to do.

The young man whose video appears on this thread has been filming on Metro for some years and wants to do so on a fairly continual basis. Metro has tried as far as possible to accommodate him, with staff going out to train him in safe working practices with a view to allowing unescorted filming, and going on to offer work experience etc. I think this shows a willingness to meet the needs of an enthusiast. Unfortunately Metro feels that he has not been conducting himself safely or responsibly, and as such has withdrawn the permission it had granted in this case, a fact that has been discussed with his father.

Metro would not be a responsible railway operator if it failed to act where it felt that the behaviour of a legal minor on its property was capable of putting both that individual and others at risk.

In terms of the specific incident recorded, this will be dealt with in line with Metro's normal procedures and it would be wrong of me to comment further.
 

Peter Mugridge

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Hello Huw, just had a thought - what's the Metro's view on pictures done from outside Metro property, eg from bridges / nearby streets?

I seem to remember there is one station where the platforms are narrower than most and permission is never granted for that station; am I right in thinking it's the one where the control room is built onto part of the platform, hence the restricted width at that location?
 

alexdodds

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Huw Lewis of Nexus writes: As owner of the Tyne and Wear Metro, I am happy to clarify our position on photography and filming.
We are happy to accommodate enthusiasts who wish to take pictures on Metro. We ask that they contact the Metro Customer Relations team in advance on 0191 203 3199 to seek permission and advise where they will be. Staff will challenge photographers they see around the system and check they have permission. I recognise a couple of names on this forum as people who have done this in the past without problem.

Filming presents a greater risk because people making films are more likely to move around as they film, and may not be fully aware of their surroundings and other passengers near to them. It is worth bearing in mind that our platforms are narrower and busier than many national rail stations, increasing the risk. For this reason Metro normally requires filmakers to be accompanied, but again you can call the number above to discuss what you want to do.

The young man whose video appears on this thread has been filming on Metro for some years and wants to do so on a fairly continual basis. Metro has tried as far as possible to accommodate him, with staff going out to train him in safe working practices with a view to allowing unescorted filming, and going on to offer work experience etc. I think this shows a willingness to meet the needs of an enthusiast. Unfortunately Metro feels that he has not been conducting himself safely or responsibly, and as such has withdrawn the permission it had granted in this case, a fact that has been discussed with his father.

Metro would not be a responsible railway operator if it failed to act where it felt that the behaviour of a legal minor on its property was capable of putting both that individual and others at risk.

In terms of the specific incident recorded, this will be dealt with in line with Metro's normal procedures and it would be wrong of me to comment further.

yeah he did tell me he got into a bit of trouble so something was bound to happern.

Of course I am sure you will agree Huw its not bad news for enthusiasts because theres always the view from central station main line platform 8, the northern rail platforms at Heworth and of course Sunderland main station.

At Sunderland enthusiasts just need to get permission from the station supervisor to photo/video and as long as they dont use a tripod and flash then its ok.
 
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We would not prevent photography from outside Metro property. I am aware that in the past police officers have approached photographers to ask them what they are doing in such circumstances, from a safety and security concern.

South Gosforth Platform 2 is very narrow (and busy, as a junction station) but Metro does not specifically prevent photography there. Its stations like South Gosforth where we would be concerned about the use of tripods, for example, where they might create a trip hazard.

As suggested above, Sunderland is staffed by Northern throughout the day and as such is a good place to take pictures with staff permission, particularly since Nexus has just refurbished it, and there is a mix of Metro, Northern, Grand Central and freight traffic passing through. I would also suggest Pelaw is a good location with Metro permission, as the island platform is very spacious and there is a mix of different companies operating on the various lines.
 

ChrisCooper

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Does anyone else find South Eastern to be bad for photography issues? I've been in London for a few days and have taken loads of photographs of trains at various stations (including a few on the Underground). At all times I was on a valid ticket (well Oyster) and was photographing whilst waiting for a train (many times it was the train I'd just got off or was about to get on). The one time anyone said anything was at Woolwich Arsenal. I was slightly in the wrong as I'd gone past a "passengers must not pass this point" sign without realising (it is one of those that is before the end of the platform and with no ovious reason for being where it is), and he pointed the sign out and said I shouldn't go past it. I apologised and said I hadn't seen the sign or else I would not have past it, and expected that was the end of it. He then though says "you're not allowed to take photographs of trains on this station anyway", and then before I could argue the point walked off. I was only photographing the train I'd got off, before heading to get the DLR anyway, so carried on with what I was doing. Perhaps it was the same person but I had someone tell me I couldn't photograph at Woolwich Arsenal last year too, and have also had the same from SET staff at Bromley South and the through platforms at London Bridge in the past.
 

TheJRB

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Does anyone else find South Eastern to be bad for photography issues?

I've certainly not found this to be the case at Ashford International or Tonbridge. At those two they seem to be very good about it. At Redhill (Southern, but still Govia) a member of staff asked politely if we would tell the station supervisor that we were there taking photos, but was almost apologetic about it!

Regarding Bromley South, can anyone give any more information about what it's like taking photos there?
 

jon0844

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There are many places where the sign is nowhere near where the 'point' would logically be, but it's simply as there's a post there. Technically you're in the wrong, but I am sure that they probably need some sort of 'order' to have signs up and if you could access plans, it would show the restricted area not actually where the sign is.

Finsbury Park has the signs to say you must not cross the line, and they've painted a rather awkward line to suggest that line isn't the railway line, but a faded yellow strip before the end of the platform! What's more, there are two signs on different posts (one old, one new) when there's a post RIGHT BY the section where the platform goes down to track level - and so would have been ideal for a sign to say not pass this point!

Then there would be no need to have a fake line.

Besides the station manager that moaned at me for taking a photo of the new gates at Finsbury Park (due to the heightened security risk, ahead of the royal wedding and Osama bin Laden being found - I swear this staff member must have been pre-briefed), the only other problem has been from PCSOs and a foreign cleaner at Paddington, who thought my press badge saying 'PRESS' read 'POLICE' and then assumed I was a police officer!

As for telling staff you are there; isn't it that enthusiasts are asked to sign in simply for being there? Now it seems the station staff are happy to let you be there, but take out a camera and they're on to you. If you were a security risk, you could quite easily scope a place with your EYES and make notes on paper (or even later, from memory). It's odd that now it's only about taking pictures, or videos, even when it's quite clear you're aiming the camera at a train - not wandering around going in and out of the 'staff only' areas or jumping down onto the track and going up the line.
 

curly42

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I seem to have more hassle with Southern staff than with any other operators. I was at Havant station one day last week,changing trains. I had a ten minute wait,so I decided to take a few pictures of the various units.
As soon as the camera appeared,a member of staff approached me,and,very politely,told me that it was illegal to take pictures without the station managers permission. Having had enough of this nonsense lately,I replied ( in a very civil voice ) -
"You are either mistaken or a liar.I'm going to assume that it is the former,and that being the case,this conversation is now over".
He walked away,I caught my train - incident over with.
I have now decided that in future I'll ask the member of staff to fetch the B.T.P. to sort it out.
 

alexdodds

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I seem to have more hassle with Southern staff than with any other operators. I was at Havant station one day last week,changing trains. I had a ten minute wait,so I decided to take a few pictures of the various units.
As soon as the camera appeared,a member of staff approached me,and,very politely,told me that it was illegal to take pictures without the station managers permission. Having had enough of this nonsense lately,I replied ( in a very civil voice ) -
"You are either mistaken or a liar.I'm going to assume that it is the former,and that being the case,this conversation is now over".
He walked away,I caught my train - incident over with.
I have now decided that in future I'll ask the member of staff to fetch the B.T.P. to sort it out.

Nice one. Now that is what i call fighting back.
 

jon0844

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I do wonder what the policy is for people merely waiting for a train (or changing train). The 'rules' (aka advice) is for enthusiasts to make themselves known.

There is no actual guidance for a passenger/commuter to sign in at every station they visit, and given it's not illegal to take photos for non-commercial use (well, not even for - it would be a civil case taken against you) then I am not sure what they would say you need to do.
 

HST Power

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I live in Letchworth, so if I decide to go spotting on the Great Northern route, I always ask the staff at my home station if I am allowed to spot at say Stevenage. They always call ahead to make sure, rather kindly. There's no point dropping ten pounds on a ticket if you get there and can't even photograph, so I always make sure just in case. I've never had a problem on the Great Northern, but if I'm anywhere else I'll ask first. Better safe than sorry.
 

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