1. This is the last week to take part in the survey commissioned by Network Rail in conjunction with Middlesex University on the subject of suicide prevention on the railways - and as it's such an important topic (and a very well constructed survey) we wanted to give this particular survey a bit more visibility. You can find out more and take part in the survey if you wish by taking a look at this thread - deadline is 16th September.

Had problems taking pictures of the railways?

Discussion in 'Photography Advice & Discussion' started by Snapper, 1 Apr 2008.

  1. jon0844

    jon0844 Veteran Member

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    There don't seem to be many obvious pedestrian routes to the hotels, presumably to get you using the expensive taxis.
     
  2. Aictos

    Aictos On Moderation

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    exactly, it was my first time there and I was confused to where I had to go :(
     
  3. 158747

    158747 Member

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    Sounds like a case of someone making the rules up as they go along, how can photographing aircraft from the station platform be a security risk when it is ok to photograph them at the airport?
     
  4. TheJRB

    TheJRB Established Member

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    I was once told off for taking photos at Orpington because "the Olympic rules" were still in place in November 2012 and that it's because it's a big station! So take it with a pinch of salt is my advice until you hear something official.

    However if it is true, that would be quite a shame. I like going to Gatwick to photograph the trains and planes. Perhaps Clapham Junction will have to do for planes on final approach into Heathrow instead!
     
  5. GatwickDepress

    GatwickDepress Established Member

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    At Bedford in June, a member of staff made it clear I was allowed to take pictures as long as infrastructure wasn't in shot...
     
  6. 455driver

    455driver Veteran Member

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    The few times when I have been confronted with somebody spouting 'elf & saifty' I ask them which rule I am breaking and can they show it too me please, if they persist I then pull a bloomin great book out of my bag (with a very rough "Health and safety at Work 1998, undated 2012" front cover on it and go to hand it to them, invariably they leg it within seconds! :lol:
     
  7. Aictos

    Aictos On Moderation

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    I was told this first by a Gatwick Express liviered Dispatcher then their manager confirmed it BUT I am still waiting on the airport to confirm if their "ban" actually exists or not - sorely tempted to head to airport this week and ask to speak to a senior manager to explain how it's a security risk when like you have said it's fine to take photos at the airport itself.

    What I don't understand and what I will use to prove my point is the same distance I was at Gatwick is the same distance from the viewing area that Heathrow have provided and also my second point I will bring up is the fact that I can stand at Hatton Cross at the bus stops and photo the aircraft coming in to land and if it's such a security risk at the airport at Gatwick then surely as Heathrow is a far bigger target then Gatwick then Heathrow would have placed a ban on such photography.

    The manager not sure what their actual job role was went on to say because the airport has a ban in place and because the concourse goes over the platforms, the platforms are covered by same ban.

    Also said because of the increased security risk you may not be able to photo trains there too which is in direct confliction with Southern's policy >

    Photography at Southern stations

    As a general rule members of the public are free to take photos of our trains and the stations we manage and are welcome to do so. If any of our employees are likely to feature in your pictures we'd appreciate you asking for their permission whenever possible.

    We ask that photographers only go onto areas that are open to the general public and don't cause an obstruction to passengers or staff. And ideally we ask that photographers taking more than just a few 'snapshots' seek permission from us prior to taking photos, however we realise this is not always possible in practice.

    We must also stress that flash photography must not to be used as this can be a distraction for train drivers.

    Our local station staff occasionally may ask photographers not to take pictures and move to another part of the station or leave the station. We'll always explain why this is necessary. And if this does happen please understand that our staff have many things to consider including safety and security of all passengers and so will use their judgement in this regard.

    Permission should be sought for any photographs taken of our trains and property for publication purposes. Enthusiast photographers can take photographs at stations for private purposes, provided they are not sold except to enthusiast magazines.

    Finally along with all operators Southern supports the Guidelines for Rail Enthusiasts which help remind enthusiasts of their responsibilities when visiting stations.


    Quite clearly says I am perfectly allowed to take photos of 442s for example, still once I hear from the airport I will of course update all here but my view is it's a load of tosh.
     
  8. Peter Mugridge

    Peter Mugridge Established Member

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    Gatwick is a Network Rail managed station now isn't it? Not a Southern one?
     
  9. GatwickDepress

    GatwickDepress Established Member

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    It was managed by Network Rail until 2012 when it passed to Southern. I don't think it's passed back since.
     
  10. Peter Mugridge

    Peter Mugridge Established Member

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    Ah, I had thought it was the other way round!
     
  11. 455driver

    455driver Veteran Member

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    I notice it says-

    It doesnt say you are permitted to take pictures of the planes!
     
  12. Aictos

    Aictos On Moderation

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    Smart Alec ;) I liked Gatwick as I could get decent photos of the Class 442 fleet plus get some mileage in at same time, the fact I could also get photos of the aircraft is a bonus :D

    My point however is it is a Southern managed station yet was told by some manager that I couldn't take photos of the trains as that too was considered a security risk because of the "ban" in place by the airport.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: 3 Nov 2014
  13. 455driver

    455driver Veteran Member

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    Ask them to show you evidence of the ban?
     
  14. Aictos

    Aictos On Moderation

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    I've got in touch with Southern and Gatwick Airport via emails so currently waiting on them to show me the evidence.
     
  15. trentside

    trentside Established Member Senior Fares Advisor

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    I took several pictures inside the North Terminal at Gatwick the other day and had no problems at all - this included airside pictures from the terminal building. Sounds like the issue is with the station staff getting their knickers in a twist...
     
  16. Aictos

    Aictos On Moderation

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    In that case, a visit to airport management seems to be in order....
     
  17. jon0844

    jon0844 Veteran Member

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    Will the airport do anything? I say this as threads on here suggest the airport doesn't get too involved with other issues relating to the railway station.
     
  18. Aictos

    Aictos On Moderation

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    Seems Southern are at fault here as it is a training issue with their staff there misunderstanding the guidelines :roll:

    Official reply from the Airport confirms NO such ban is in place and you ARE welcome to photo trains or aircraft from the platforms provided you first advise the Duty Manager or the Duty Customer Experience Manager.

    It also says photography is NOT allowed within the airport terminals without express permission of Gatwick Airport Limited for which they issue a media pass and a escort from the press team.

    Also mentions the popular Aviation Enthusiast ID scheme too.

    As result have kindly suggested to Southern via Twitter that they ensure their staff are briefed accordly ;)
     
  19. GatwickDepress

    GatwickDepress Established Member

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    Perhaps there should be a Railway Enthusiast ID scheme in co-operation with the British Transport Police... might help alleviate those security concerns some very civic-minded staff seem to have.
     
  20. AM9

    AM9 Established Member

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    I often wonder if these officials know why they can ask/demand that photography/video be stopped, whether they misguidedly think that they should do it or whether they just feel the uniform gives their ego some sort of authority to boss the public around.
     
  21. jon0844

    jon0844 Veteran Member

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    I have a press card that is registered with the police. My details can be checked by the cops and I have a password for further verification. The card also contains a chip with encrypted data (not sure what it contains, but if like a passport then presumably it has my photo and details).

    But...

    ...that's the problem ultimately. Even if I produce a press pass to a police officer, it doesn't (or hasn't) stopped some from still coming up with nonsense about the legality of taking photos in some places. Some will still try and make your life difficult, especially if they're proved wrong after doing some checks. Sometimes you'll get 'let off this time' when clearly you'll be let off EVERY time.

    Some people do like to show off their power. That includes rail staff, the police, bouncers and all sorts of other people. The worst, in my experience, at community support officers. They have little understanding of the law, but still think they do and therefore make things up because they assume they can bluff their way through the job.

    Naturally, when any of these people encounter someone that doesn't just say 'sorry, sir' and takes things further, they end up looking very stupid and it must really hurt their ego too. After all, they wanted to abuse their power so it obviously meant a lot to them.
     
  22. AM9

    AM9 Established Member

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    Ah, the 'plastic police'. What everybody should know is that PCSOs do not have the power of arrest, above that of a citizen, so if you know that you are in the right and they just won't climb down, you can just walk away. They can, of course call a real PC, which should be encouraged, because if they do it too often, they will be taken aside and 'seriously educated'.
     
  23. ralphchadkirk

    ralphchadkirk Established Member

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    They can detain you though for up to a certain amount of time.


    Sent from my iPhone 4 using Tapatalk
     
  24. jon0844

    jon0844 Veteran Member

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    That's exactly what happened with me. A PCSO was having a go at me, and eventually a 'real' police officer came over to see what was going on, and initially (as you might expect) assumed the PCSO was being harassed - but it didn't take long for the PCSO to be told (via a whisper in the ear) to go off and do something else, and I was then left alone.

    But sadly I've had bother from other police officers, so there was always the chance that it could have still resulted in me getting hassle. However, for some reason, as soon as a press card is presented they seem to suddenly change their approach.

    In other words, they're now worried things could get taken further and they've lost their ability to bully me and send me on my way, or fearing the possibility of arrest. Arresting a journalist taking photos in a public place is not going to go well for the officer concerned, as every force has made it quite clear that it's acceptable (and legal). Obviously for everyone, but these people always assume most people don't know their rights.

    This clarification has unfortunately only come about after a number of people have been arrested and even had photos and video deleted without a court order, and my union having had to work incredibly hard to get police forces to 'educate' their officers. And I am sure the problem still exists if you ever tried to take a photo of any incident involving the police, especially where a photo or video might get an officer in trouble.
     
    Last edited: 6 Nov 2014
  25. alexdodds

    alexdodds Member

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    Well for the first time since May 2009 I got jobsworthed at a station with one of my friends and it was at Birmingham Snow Hill Tuesday last week. My fault at first I forgot to ask supervisor. I was videoing shots at waistline level which caused concern for a few staff. I only did this cos it was raining. So one person who I knew before hand was gonna jobsworth me because of the way he looked at me then another 2 came along and read the riot act out to me then the supervisor came along and he was much better he did remind me to let him know next time and he was happy for us to carry on I did say sorry as well. Well I suppose we all must have a jobsworth one day
     

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