Hanging out of Windows

[87031]

I really wish I could agree with those sentiments, but I just can't. There is never a time and place for it. By taking the risk you are risking not just themselves but others also. And finally, if my life has taught me anything thus far it is that sense is anything but common.

It might be at the person's own risk whether they put their head in the path of a lineside structure or an oncoming train, and that would be fine except for the consequences of getting it wrong. When this happens it unleashes a chain of events that are costly and disruptive to all involved. Effectively what you would end up with is a railway fatality with all the hassle that pertains. People who don't have the sense to stay completely inside the train at all times usually don't have the knowledge or experience to know what is and isn't safe either.

It is a massively risky activity and it only takes a moment of inattention or a poor decision for it all to go horribly wrong.

O L Leigh

try telling that to people on diesel galas its part of the day heads out screaming bellowin flailin, most bashers know the line they do anyway for normal individuals its a huge risk, at high speed its silly but coming into a station or departing its essential for bashers even electric traction, used to love it in the summer windin down into preston after a non stop run on the royal scot from Euston the smell of the class 87 traction motors and the heat pouring out of the vents and the scream of the engine slowin down...its what its all about

 

[dan_atki]

This thread seems to have run its course now, could a mod do the right thing please? It just going around in circles now

Threads aren't locked at request - it's done when we deem it appropriate, normally when things get out of hand. I've seen nothing so far that warrants this thread being locked.

 

[andylloyd]

Threads aren't locked at request - it's done when we deem it appropriate, normally when things get out of hand. I've seen nothing so far that warrants this thread being locked.

With all due respect Dan the same old stuff is being brought up all the time now Maybes I can suggest you read through the 'whole' thread again
It's getting boring and ridiculous now

 

[asylumxl]

I stick my head out the window coming into stations I know.

The only time I can see it being dangerous is when there is another line on the side you're on, and when you're facing the opposite way to direction of travel!

 

[dan_atki]

With all due respect Dan the same old stuff is being brought up all the time now Maybes I can suggest you read through the 'whole' thread again
It's getting boring and ridiculous now

I have read the whole thread thank you - and I don't appreciate being told what to do. Backseat moderating is against our rules, remember .

If it's getting boring and ridiculous* may I kindly suggest you don't open this thread again.

*Bear in mind these two adjectives are highly subjective so your opinion will differ to others'.

 

[ukrob]

I wonder if anyone ever gets eye damage from doing this at high speed? For example grit which in turn causes infections?

 

[Dave R]

you can get eye damage from bashing a steam, if a bit of ash lands in your eye it'll be a hell of a mess.

 

[andylloyd]

I have read the whole thread thank you - and I don't appreciate being told what to do. Backseat moderating is against our rules, remember .

If it's getting boring and ridiculous* may I kindly suggest you don't open this thread again.

*Bear in mind these two adjectives are highly subjective so your opinion will differ to others'.

It's obvious to me that 'freedom of speech' is not permitted on this forum. Please contact me via PM if you have any further issues
Pending your advice I will 'NOT' open this thread anymore.......

I thank you....

 

[generalvegitable]

you can get eye damage from bashing a steam, if a bit of ash lands in your eye it'll be a hell of a mess.

that happened to me when I was about 5, had to wear an eye-patch for week

 

[Daimler]

Hmm...I'm a late arrival to this thread, but I'll post nonetheless!

I'll start by saying that I do stick my head out of train windows. Not at 125mph (or even 75mph), and certianly not more than the bare minimum necessary to see where I'm going. Usually, it's if something is wrong - if we've slowed up, or have suddenly braked, I'll go to see why it's happened - on long journeys, I'll occasionally do it as we come into/are waiting at/are leaving a station - a chance to get some fresh air and stretch my legs.

No, it's not sensible really, and I understand those who say you shouldn't. However, it is fun, and it is kind of exciting - it makes you feel like you're involved with the journey, rather than isolated - perhaps like a convertible car? Let me put it this way - I recently took a friend (who'd never been on a proper train, and is in no way an enthusiast, but loves travelling) on a HST from London to Oxford with weekend first. He loved the FGW first class - he had no idea trains could actually be really nice - but that's by the by. As we pulled into Oxford, I opened the window and stuck my head out. My friend's reaction? 'Oh wow, that's amazing, let me!'*

It's not sensible, but at slow speeds, coming into stations, etc. it isn't terribly dangerous, if you behave responsibly. It is, however, kind of fun - and is, somehow, special - you can only do it on a train, and a proper train at that. Whenever I come into Paddington on a HST, sticking my head out as the train pulls in with my hand on the handle brings a sense of occasion to the arrival - maybe it's because it harks back to the past, I don't know - it's one of the things that makes HSTs enjoyable to travel on.

*Before I'm berated for leading him astray, I was careful enough to make sure that he only stuck the tip of his head out!

 

[theblackwatch]

screaming bellowin flailin

Vegetables on tour? I go to listen to the locos, not to a load of morons screaming at each other while they wet their pants with excitement.

 

[A60K]

It's obvious to me that 'freedom of speech' is not permitted on this forum.

Is it not rather arrogant for you to request a thread be closed unilaterally because you don't like the way it's going, and when you don't get the result you wanted whimper that freedom of speech is not permitted - you wanted to deny everyone else's right - freedom of speech remember - to contribute to the thread...

 

[O L Leigh]

Lee Again

Oh I should just accept it IS safe, after all they speak from years and years of accumulated Railway experience. :roll:

Welcome to RailUK, where the voice of reason and experience is routinely ignored.

We only want to make sure you are all safe. If you really must hear/see/smell a particular train, why not observe it from the lineside or a platform instead? You won't get much closer than that.

O L Leigh

 

[andylloyd]

It's obvious to me that 'freedom of speech' is not permitted on this forum.

Is it not rather arrogant for you to request a thread be closed unilaterally because you don't like the way it's going, and when you don't get the result you wanted whimper that freedom of speech is not permitted - you wanted to deny everyone else's right - freedom of speech remember - to contribute to the thread...

On the subject of the thread, key point is be 'Sensible'

 

[87031]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2DN1yhNz4Rc

wanna see some heads check this lot out...look carefully at 3.12 and spot the leg out the window brilliant!

 

[43050]

I have to disagree with the oridgional poster about banning those people leaning out of windows, as the MODs arnt going to be interested in banning some one that window hangs as that would be childish. They are more interested in what goes on on the forum not anything outside of.
I have been leaning (not half me body though) out of train windows now for ten years, and know how to and where or not to do this and its certainly not trespass. OK its not safe, but let people be they know the risk. Besides i've got some ace pics with ''window hanging'' going over Berwick viaduct heading north.

 

[The Snap]

Lee Again

Oh I should just accept it IS safe, after all they speak from years and years of accumulated Railway experience. :roll:

Just because you have more railway experience doesn't mean your opinions and ideas are more valid than anyone else’s...:roll:

 

[O L Leigh]

Just because you have more railway experience doesn't mean your opinions and ideas are more valid than anyone else’s...:roll:

Ah. The internet equivalent of sticky your fingers in your ears and dancing around shouting "La, la, la, I'm not listening".

If there's one thing that makes me angry about this forum it's how often this particular attitude is trotted out. OK it's all fine and lovely for folk to have an opinion about something, but when it comes down to a matter of FACT there is going to be one right answer and lots of wrong ones. It's not about whether or not a person has an opinion.

Newbie: Do trains have steering wheels?

Driver: No they don't.

Enthusiast: Yes they do.

Driver: What are you jibbering about? I drive trains so I should know.

Enthusiast: Just because you're a driver it doesn't mean your opinion is any more valid.

Crazy, huh...?

In any case, the way that this discussion is being progressed (or not) is on the basis of people's experience. There are lots of young whipper snappers here saying it's safe because they've done it. According to them it's all down to knowing when to put your head out and when to bring it back in again. On the other hand, there is rail staff such as myself who see and know how tight some of these clearances are and how close we've come to catching someone's head as they lean out. Old Timer probably has more experience than most, and therefore I think he has a better understanding of the issue at hand than probably anyone else on this forum.

I really hope no-one here loses their head as a result of leaning out of a window. For all the good it will do I will say it again. It is stupid and dangerous. If you really want to see, hear and smell the traction, watch from the lineside instead.

O L Leigh

 

[The Snap]

Ah. The internet equivalent of sticky your fingers in your ears and dancing around shouting "La, la, la, I'm not listening".

If there's one thing that makes me angry about this forum it's how often this particular attitude is trotted out. OK it's all fine and lovely for folk to have an opinion about something, but when it comes down to a matter of FACT there is going to be one right answer and lots of wrong ones. It's not about whether or not a person has an opinion.

Newbie: Do trains have steering wheels?

Driver: No they don't.

Enthusiast: Yes they do.

Driver: What are you jibbering about? I drive trains so I should know.

Enthusiast: Just because you're a driver it doesn't mean your opinion is any more valid.

Crazy, huh...?

In any case, the way that this discussion is being progressed (or not) is on the basis of people's experience. There are lots of young whipper snappers here saying it's safe because they've done it. According to them it's all down to knowing when to put your head out and when to bring it back in again. On the other hand, there is rail staff such as myself who see and know how tight some of these clearances are and how close we've come to catching someone's head as they lean out. Old Timer probably has more experience than most, and therefore I think he has a better understanding of the issue at hand than probably anyone else on this forum.

I really hope no-one here loses their head as a result of leaning out of a window. For all the good it will do I will say it again. It is stupid and dangerous. If you really want to see, hear and smell the traction, watch from the lineside instead.

O L Leigh

I understand your point completely. Yes, it probably is dangerous, but it could still be seen as "fun" by those who do it.

And yes, yourself and Old Timer probably both have more experience than most on here, my self included. However, it annoys me when peoples' views are blatantly disregarded because they don't match what people with experience feel are right. Just because people have limited or no experience doesn't mean their views and opinions should be branded as incorrect and invalid. Everyone is entitled to an opinion on anything.

Having said that, when we are talking about hard facts, then opinions can be disregarded if they are incorrect, because, well, they are not right!!

This issue, though, is mostly based on opinion, and therefore all should be considered.

 

[Greenback]

It's not based on opinions though is it? I have no reason to doubt what train drivers on this forum have said, ie that they have ALMOST hit someone who has their head out of the window, or know of people who have been killed by hitting lineside structures or equipment. As has been discussed on other threads, it cannot be pleasant to clear up the mess caused by an accident; I can only imagine the feelings of people who have tod eal with someone who has invited decapitation by sticking their head out of a window. You can't deny it has happened, and I'm sure that the victims involved considered they knew what they were doing and that they would be quite safe.

At the end of the day, if anyone wants to carry on with this foolhardy behaviour then go ahead. I can foresee that, following a fatality caused by leanin gout of the window, heritage coaches with droplight windows will be banned unless the windows are sealed shut, and then that will be the end of it anyway!

 

[Old Timer]

I understand your point completely. Yes, it probably is dangerous, but it could still be seen as "fun" by those who do it.

And yes, yourself and Old Timer probably both have more experience than most on here, my self included. However, it annoys me when peoples' views are blatantly disregarded because they don't match what people with experience feel are right. Just because people have limited or no experience doesn't mean their views and opinions should be branded as incorrect and invalid. Everyone is entitled to an opinion on anything.

Having said that, when we are talking about hard facts, then opinions can be disregarded if they are incorrect, because, well, they are not right!!

This issue, though, is mostly based on opinion, and therefore all should be considered.

O L Leigh, SWT Driver, and myself all have experience of either dealing with fatalities to people who have put their heads out of trains, or have been driving trains which have nearly hit someone.

Having an opinion is not the issue here. What IS the issue is people who argue that it is not dangerous based upon their own limited experience.

Your post implies that the views and opinions of people with no experience are as valid as those of us with experience and thus we are trying to prevent them voicing such.

That is not correct. What we have tried to do is to demonstrate that hanging out of the window of a moving train is inherently dangerous for the various reasons that have been propounded.

If it was not dangerous then there would not be a sticker by the window instructing that passengers should not lean out of the window.

It is well accepted that simply sticking one's head out of a window will not result in instant death, and indeed one can travel long distances with one's head out of the window and suffer little or no ill effects. That does not mean to say that the activity is without risk, which is what has been stated.

In relation to the tresspass issue, a relatively recent Court case has entered into Case Law, the fact that a person who places any part of their body over a platform edge is technically and legally tresspassing. If you wish to check then this by a relevant Google search. The point here is to extrapolate platform to train window.

In the case in question an injured person was suing for Compensation.

At the end of the day the bigger question is this...Is the view of an experienced Railwayman more valid than that of an enthusiast when it comes to safety and operations ? or do opinions from non-Railwaymen carry more weight where there is a disagreement over fact ?

 

[The Snap]

At the end of the day the bigger question is this...Is the view of an experienced Railwayman more valid than that of an enthusiast when it comes to safety and operations ? or do opinions from non-Railwaymen carry more weight where there is a disagreement over fact ?

I suppose, when you put it like that, the view of an experienced Railwayman is more valid, or more reliable (which I prefer), when it comes to safety and operations.

I think there has been a mis-interpretation of the word 'valid' here; my perception of the word (which has come from A Level History analysis) is that it should be used to describe whether or not a statement or source is acceptable as a piece of evidence based upon how true-to-fact it is.
‘Reliable’, as a word, has a slightly different meaning; provenance, timing and bias sholuld all be considered.

The provenance of your statements is obviously a long Railway background. Hence, your statement would be considered reliable. However, if it was merely your opinion (which I’m not suggesting) and not true-to-fact, it wouldn’t necessarily be a valid source of evidence.

I hope you see what I'm getting at. And, for the record, I'm not for one minute trying to suggest your statements are invalid!

 

[MCR247]

Actually, this is to do with having an opinion. I dont do heads out myself. If this is about fact, then people shouldnt ride motorbikes or pushbikes, as motorists could say, I've almost hit someone on a motorbike.

 

[ukrob]

Actually, this is to do with having an opinion. I dont do heads out myself. If this is about fact, then people shouldnt ride motorbikes or pushbikes, as motorists could say, I've almost hit someone on a motorbike.

Motorcycles are specifically allowed though, sticking your head out is warned against.

 

[MCR247]

Good point

 

[Kneedown]

The only time I can see it being dangerous is when there is another line on the side you're on, and when you're facing the opposite way to direction of travel!

So that bush thats growing by the lineside is never going to be overlooked by the P'way staff and grow out further?
The train isn't going to hit a pigeon or pheasant which will fly back and have your eye out quicker than you can say "Ouch, that really smarts!"?
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

I wonder if anyone ever gets eye damage from doing this at high speed? For example grit which in turn causes infections?

When i was at Toton i was on the North yard shunt one morning on an 09. It is a requirement that you have your head out of the window to maintain good observation when shunting. A flurry of wind blew a cloud of dust and grit into my right eye. I ended up in the Queens Medical centre with the side of my face painted orange, watching a doctor poking a needle towards my eye in an attempt to remove all the grit. I was off work for a week wearing an eyepatch.
I can tell you it hurt like h*ll, and that was when i was only doing 5mph in a siding!
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Just because you have more railway experience doesn't mean your opinions and ideas are more valid than anyone else’s...:roll:

I've been a Driver for 20years, and OT has probably forgotten more than i'll ever know.
You may ignore me, being a self confessed "hang-em, flog-em, send-em back, serves-em bl**dy well right right winger", thats fine by me and that is your choice, but all you window leaners, treat what OT says with respect, and please heed.

 

[amn140174]

Cant really say I've any interest in sticking any part of my body out of a train window at 1mph or 125mph, main reason for this is I just dont fancy anything however small coming into contact with whatever bit I have stuck out the window. Maybe its right what they say, the older you get the wiser you get.

Going back over the years I remember being on a 101 on the Tyne Valley and seeing another enthusiast stick his head out, to be honest I found it funny seeing his glasses fly past the window I was sitting at. Not sure how I would have found it if they where still on his head when they went past though.

Also remember once at Chester-le-Street station and seeing a nice cannon camera bouncing along the platform and hearing the word "b*****d" from the dark shaddow leaning out of a HST window.

Out of interest if you did lose your head at 125mph hit by a train also travelling at 125mph and the emergency cord was pulled within a few seconds what would the distance be between your head and body.

 

[37401]

If you really want to see, hear and smell the traction, watch from the lineside instead.
O L Leigh

can be just as dangerous, your very close to speeding trains, whats going to hurt more, a branch off a tree at 70mph or a Train?
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Out of interest if you did lose your head at 125mph hit by a train also travelling at 125mph and the emergency cord was pulled within a few seconds what would the distance be between your head and body.

far very very far

 

[Aussie_Rail]

Sticking ones head out the window is dangerous and should be a decision the person makes before doing so when they acknowledge all the risks. However.

Some rail trips are known for doing just that, which probably doesn't help teach kids about the real risks involved on main lines.

See here: This is the Puffing Bill Railway in Victoria.

 

[37401]

ive never seen anyone with their head out far enugh to have it hit by another train or the OHLE, signals, tunnels bridges ect, maybe a few branches but they have their head in if they see it.

at the end of the day, its dangerous and could kill you but its up to the person doing it and if he/she wants to put their head out then thats their choice