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Hanging out of Windows

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Kneedown

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oh and for the record yes ive done heads out! and ive even flailed! ive done heads out at 125mph!

as long as you can see whats coming your fine!

Never heard such a ridiculous statement in all my life!

Thats tantamount to saying it's perfectly safe to play on the tracks as long as you can see whats coming, but how many t**t's get killed doing that?
One of my ex Toton colleagues transferred down to St Blazey a few years back. He was moving loco's around the depot at low speed and had his head out as part of his duties. He got it knocked clean off by a lineside structure!
If a pro can get caught like that then anyone can! <(
 
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Dennis

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Illegal, Dangerous, Irresponsible & Downright Stupid.

Like a lot of enjoyable things then.

I thoroughly enjoy external observations although with the demise of decent traction, it is not something I do much anymore.
 

37401

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You can't stick your whole head out at 125, it's impossible due to wind resistance. Having enough out to see/hear is a bit different as your whole head isn't out. Indeed it is possible to have your head within the 'kinetic envelope' (thanks to a guard who said that to 1D53 for the idea!) of the train so it is right on the edge of being out, but NOT actually out, to experience virtually the same thrill as if your head was out, and this is what I often do. There's nothing wrong with that at all.

Yup thats what I did when we were at 125 :D
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Illegal, Dangerous, Irresponsible & Downright Stupid.

Stop trying to condone an activity that can not only cause a fatality or at least serious injury, but serious delays & inconvenience to hundreds of people. <(

Im not condoning it and for the record I only do it at low speeds theses days, i.e departing a station then I get my head in!!

I ONCE had my head sorta out at 125mph
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Where on earth did this ridiculous 'heads out' phrase come from which has only appeared in the past couple of years

Im guessing its the same place as "T" key :lol:
 

Old Timer

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There are an awful lot of ill-informed comments on here, and a minority who try to argue with Railways staff, such as SWT Driver, that sticking your head out of the window is not dangerous.

A number of us professional Railwaymen on here will have dealt with fatalities caused by people sticking their heads out of windows.

One example immediately springs to mind of a Regional Railways Railway Manager who put his head out of a Stourbridge bound train one night and was struck by struck a bridge, causng death. This occurred in the late 80s.

The North London Line for example still has limited clearance alongside the train, which was the reason why the NLL 501s all had bars across the door droplight windows.

A few other facts about which people may wish to be aware, before they take advice from other people.

1) Objects from the track/trackside can and do get swept up by the windstream of the train and strike anyone who has gotten their head out the window.

2) Network Rail's cutbacks mean that at many locations, trees and bushes now intrude over the cess and close to the sides of trains. The growth will stop about the kinematic envelope, your head will pentrate outside of that and into the vegetation.

3) Temporary structures, such as scaffolding, workplatforms, OHL screening, etc may be installed and can come out to or intrude into the Structure Gauge.

4) Certain lines such as the WCML former London Division and the former GW broad gauge areas which have been four-tracked, have substandard six-foot and 10-foot clearances. A number of other lines, such as the NLL mentioned above, have minimal-clearance lineside structures.

It is therefore NOT perfectly safe to put your head out of the window as has been suggested, and doing so can result in Prosecution.
 

Dave R

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this was always going to be a controversial topic and I know my views will not be accepted by some.

personally i love sticking my head out the window, plymouth-penzance on a sunny day is brilliant, I know that when I can start to feel the effects of the wind on my eyes its time to bring my head in but i still stay in the vestibule with the window open, anyway you won't be able to do it for much longer so i relish the few opportunities I get and I think you should too, I know what I'm doing and where the limit is so make sure you know what you're doing if/when you do it
 

Moodster020

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alot of things these days that are now illegal under health and safety are perfectly safe if you are careful, flailing is safe if you are careful, as is sticking your head out of the window, and walking round working depots for example. its just this nanny state going mad that is saying that everything is dangerous, and yes it is, but for most things you are safe if you are careful. soon if it keeps going you won't be able to leave your house incase you get ill or fall over


You should try doing the ton (100mph+) on a motorbike (On Elvington dragstrip note, for lawfull purposes ;)). <D One false move and...:shock:

i've been there regular & got back in one piece ;)

Health & safety are in fits at what we bikers get upto & are trying every which way they can to ban the motorbike.

If you could get a time machine & fastforward couple of hundred years, mankind will be extinct, as H&S will ban anyone being born as its too dangerous.:lol:

I Jest & digress though!

On a serious note H&S is initially a good idea, but in all honesty it needs not applying to every petty thing, a balance is needed. People need to take responsibility for their own actions...
 

heart-of-wessex

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I have done HO for the past 5 years, and at 125mph (once which was York - KX non stop HO to clear it for HO in the atlas). I go on the 6 foot side rather than the cess to avoid trees ect. If I see a yellow front in the distance, head is straight back in until its past.

If I see a corner ahead that faces away from the line out of sight, or any curves that are not in sight then my head is back in the window. Before i stick my head out the whole droplight i check if there's anything ahead by going as far as my eyes out the window
 

TrainBrain185

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Permanant Way activity comes with strict Byelaws, hence people who work on or near the trackside require a PTS. Whatever anyone wants to term "sticking your head out of windows" are being wreckless and technically braking the railway p-way byelaw.
For instance, how many people who partake in this dangerous act can observe "Limited Clearence" signs whilst sticking their heads out at between 75-125mph?? Answer, none! How many people know all their P-Way clearence dimensions? If not Railway trained, I would say not many.
Rules are to be observed and observed they must.
I await the first plonker to get decapitated and their family try to take the TOC or Network Rail into account for a compen claim! Will they receive anything for their loss? Hell, no!
 

Crossover

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I personally haven't done this - the closest I have been is on a HST while moving is having my head as far as the window (open but not protruding beyond the side of the train/actually outside of the window) - other than that you can see enough out of the train anyway. I have done it on arriving into stations when almost stopped ready to open the door, but I guess most people do that - I usually am on Pendos and Voyagers anyway so HSTs are few and far between.

On one of the XC HSTs I have been on recently I found that by looking between the seats I could see quite a distance anyway - quite nice as it was on the line between Teignmouth and Exeter :)

I did see a guard once stick his head out if the window on the approach to Manchester Piccadilly - he was on a Northern 323 and we were alongside in a Voyager each waiting for clearance into a platform. The 323 guard stuck his head out to see what was going on then after a short while went back into the cab pretty quick - after which a Pendo came out of the station and was naturally doing a fair rate at this point.

I know from seeing trains before too is the speed can be deceiving. I have been at stations before where a train is approaching where it looks like it is barely moving. By the time it gets to the end of the platform - it is pretty evident it is actually doing 100+ mph!
 

SWT Driver

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Permanant Way activity comes with strict Byelaws, hence people who work on or near the trackside require a PTS. Whatever anyone wants to term "sticking your head out of windows" are being wreckless and technically braking the railway p-way byelaw.
For instance, how many people who partake in this dangerous act can observe "Limited Clearence" signs whilst sticking their heads out at between 75-125mph?? Answer, none! How many people know all their P-Way clearence dimensions? If not Railway trained, I would say not many.
Rules are to be observed and observed they must.
I await the first plonker to get decapitated and their family try to take the TOC or Network Rail into account for a compen claim! Will they receive anything for their loss? Hell, no!

One idiotic family tried that some years ago, they tried to sue for damages when their son stuck his head out of a window near Witley in Surrey & his head hit the mouth of the tunnel, it didn't kill him amazingly, but it turned out that he was mucking about.

He was in a deep coma for months.

The end result?

He's, severely disabled, mentally & physically & wheelchair bound and will stay that way until he dies, his life expectancy has dropped from the normal 70's to mid 40's.

Shame he was in his last year at Uni before going to Medical School to start training to be a Doctor! Ironic.
 

O L Leigh

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What a lot of froth. Do trains with droplight windows no longer have stickers warning people "Do not lean out of the window"...?

how is window hanging trespassing? Firstly staff do it and secondly you are on the train so how the hell are you trespassing?

OK, so I'm not sure where this "trespass" angle came from but it is an utter red herring. I don't even understand by what logic folk are making this claim (and nor do I want to, before you all reach for the "Reply" button).

Yes, staff do occassionally have to lean out of a window as part of their duties. I have to at certain stations for DOO despatch. However, glancing back to check your doors is not the same thing as the flies-in-the-teeth experience that some of you confess to enjoying. The two are just not comparable.

For all the good it will do, I am adding my own voice as yet another rail worker trying to get it into your thick heads that leaning out of windows is dangerous. We're not just talking about theoretical deaths here; people really have been killed as a result of leaning out of a droplight window and will continue to die for as long as this childish activity remains possible. I can't tell you how often I've nearly taken the head off some eejit leaning out of a mainline set on Bethnal Green Bank. The look of surprise is priceless, but one day I'll get one who is looking the wrong way and take his ruddy head off.

O L Leigh
 

87031

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theres a time and a place for it, people who heads out at 125mph are stupid but when your coming into a station dont see the problem, 37 bashers would see this as part of the fun of bashin its at there own risk if they choose to do it, i i used to like to heads out at station stops to hear the traction motors windin down dont see a problem in that. also on departure to hear the loco windin up is fine but its about using your common sense really.
 

Kneedown

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I think a prosecution for trespass wouldn't get very far (unless the decapitated head landed on the track like Vivian in "The Young Ones!)
but there is the offence of "Wilfully, maliciously or negligently endangering safety of persons on the railway" for which i believe, although i stand to be corrected, carries a penalty of up to 10years imprisonment.
If you stick your head out of the window you are endangering not only yourself, but the Driver of any oncoming train, who may have to make an emergency brake application thus endangering the safety of any standing, elderly or infirm passengers on his/her train.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
its at there own risk if they choose to do it

And when they get themselves killed there are those of us here who get slated by the sympathy junkies for not shedding bucketloads of tears!
 

O L Leigh

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theres a time and a place for it

its at there own risk if they choose to do it

its about using your common sense really.

I really wish I could agree with those sentiments, but I just can't. There is never a time and place for it. By taking the risk you are risking not just themselves but others also. And finally, if my life has taught me anything thus far it is that sense is anything but common.

It might be at the person's own risk whether they put their head in the path of a lineside structure or an oncoming train, and that would be fine except for the consequences of getting it wrong. When this happens it unleashes a chain of events that are costly and disruptive to all involved. Effectively what you would end up with is a railway fatality with all the hassle that pertains. People who don't have the sense to stay completely inside the train at all times usually don't have the knowledge or experience to know what is and isn't safe either.

It is a massively risky activity and it only takes a moment of inattention or a poor decision for it all to go horribly wrong.

O L Leigh
 

37401

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OK, so I'm not sure where this "trespass" angle came from but it is an utter red herring. I don't even understand by what logic folk are making this claim (and nor do I want to, before you all reach for the "Reply" button).

I miss read the OP
 

ukrob

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To those of you who enjoy this past time, could you explain why?

I'm not saying why you shouldn't enjoy it, but I just don't 'get it' ?
 
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I know from seeing trains before too is the speed can be deceiving. I have been at stations before where a train is approaching where it looks like it is barely moving. By the time it gets to the end of the platform - it is pretty evident it is actually doing 100+ mph!

Quite funny how they do that. They crawl up to the station (seemingly) but before you know it they're ontop of you and then away into the distance again. Not too far from me there's a fantastic stretch of track at Hillington West where you can see right up the tracks two stations to the east - allows you to get the camera ready but its deceptive how quickly they come nonetheless, especially when they aren't stopping at those stations and the driver's got the hammer right down!
 

The Snap

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To those of you who enjoy this past time, could you explain why?

I'm not saying why you shouldn't enjoy it, but I just don't 'get it' ?

The rush of wind against your face
The smell of freshly burnt diesel
The sound of the locomotovies
The feeling of fun

I genuinely don't wish to be personal, so sorry Rich, you just happened to be first.

I could change your post to this...

"If you mean 'tresspassing', by walking around yards to see trains up close and seeing the environment, I see no problem. If you're sensible, and watch out for trains when necessary (like when a train is coming in to the yard or going out the yard etc), then IMO, it is perfectly safe and poses no real risk to me or anyone else.

If, however, you don't understand how yards work, that’s a different, and more serious, matter."




I really don't see any difference in your post and my re-wording. This is typical of the "I know what I'm doing" attitude that is often spoken when people try and justify their own daft adventures.

I'm not sure I want to turn this in to a 'yes you can', 'no you can't' debate about baning people from the forum. That was said as a delibrate poke to generate a response.

My point is that Bashing, Tresspassing or similar are all very dangerous and should not be encouraged in any way; especially on this forum. You are 5 seconds from death with all these activities. For some users to villify tresspassing but at the same time condone Bashing is amazing.


Although I can fully appreciate what you have done with my post and what you are trying to get at, IMHO the risks with having your head out are less than walking around a working railway yard. Yes, there are risks to having your head out of the window, however if people feel they are in control of the situation and are fully alert at all time, I see no problem with doing it.

Yards, on the other hand, and are a lot less predictable, and you would need to be aware of ALL movements in the yard and what was going to occur if you went to a certain part of it. With your head out of a train, all you need to be aware of is spotting a train or bridge.

Alas, I feel I'll loose this argument, and probably won't have the energy to carry it on if you reply! :lol:

Still, I can fully appreciate the points you are making. You have your opinions, and I have mine. They probably match somewhere along the line (what a shocking pun?!)
 

tony_mac

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http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2000/jul/22/transport.world

The court heard that Mr Brown, 35, from Weavering Street, near Maidstone, Kent, was killed after he leaned out of the window at Denmark Hill, south London, and was hit by the scaffolding.

Yes, there are risks to having your head out of the window, however if people feel they are in control of the situation and are fully alert at all time, I see no problem with doing it.
I wonder how many speeding motorcyclists would have said the same thing.
 
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I concur that. I have a colleague who regularly boasts that he does 150+ on his motorbike and that it's 'perfectly safe'. I was in awe and exclaimed, he gave me this BS about having shorter stopping distances and being more in control, and so I said, okay, what if your tire was to suddenly go out or something? The response was 'well it shouldn't do that' - I am waiting for the day he no longer comes into the office.
 

Lee_Again

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The rush of wind against your face
The smell of freshly burnt diesel
The sound of the locomotovies
The feeling of fun


Could not have said it any better myself :D

Fine, but what if...

A bird hits you
strong winds blow branches against your face
somebody throws something at the train
another 'hanger outer' drops something out of the window - straight in to your face

These are just a few of the many things that you just can not plan for or deal with if they occur. All that talk of being alert is total nonsense. And if the worst did happen, who has to deal with it? Family, friends and not to mention the poor sods who have to clean it all up. What about innocent passengers on the train who witness the consequences, or passengers waiting at stations.

For those that have posted that no harm can come of it really should consider their thoughts again.
 

andylloyd

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Fine, but what if...

A bird hits you
strong winds blow branches against your face
somebody throws something at the train
another 'hanger outer' drops something out of the window - straight in to your face

These are just a few of the many things that you just can not plan for or deal with if they occur. All that talk of being alert is total nonsense. And if the worst did happen, who has to deal with it? Family, friends and not to mention the poor sods who have to clean it all up. What about innocent passengers on the train who witness the consequences, or passengers waiting at stations.

For those that have posted that no harm can come of it really should consider their thoughts again.
At the end of the day its down to the individual involved...
There are numerous what if's or but what happens, the list is endless ;)

At the end of the day if you are 'sensible' and not plain stupid then you will be fine.....

This thread seems to have run its course now, could a mod do the right thing please? It just going around in circles now ;)
 
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