Hanging out of Windows

[Lee_Again]

In light of the recent threads discussing some of the tragic accidents that have occured recently and particuarly some of the riduculous comments that some have made I am interested if anybody fancies defending the act of hanging out of windows. How would users feel if somebody was seriously hurt, or worse, while participating in this practice?

I have read many threads on this forum where users discuss this activity as if it is the norm and completely safe. For me, hanging out of a window is no different to tresspassing and is equally unsafe. Should the administrators remove membership to those users who are involved?

 

[The Snap]

In light of the recent threads discussing some of the tragic accidents that have occured recently and particuarly some of the riduculous comments that some have made I am interested if anybody fancies defending the act of hanging out of windows. How would users feel if somebody was seriously hurt, or worse, while participating in this practice?

I have read many threads on this forum where users discuss this activity as if it is the norm and completely safe. For me, hanging out of a window is no different to tresspassing and is equally unsafe. Should the administrators remove membership to those users who are involved?

If you mean 'bashing', by having your head out to hear the noise of the locomotive and seeing the passing environment, I see no problem. If you're sensible, and bring your head back into the vestibule when necessary (like when a train is coming from the other direction, when going through tunnels etc), then IMO, it is perfectly safe and poses no real risk to me or anyone else.

If, however, you have everything above your waste-line out of the window, that’s a different, and more serious, matter.

 

[SWT Driver]

Flailing as it's commonly called is dangerous & illegal, it can also be fatal if the individual concerned were to strike a bit of infrastructure or a passing train.

I'd like to see anyone who does it arrested & charged under the railway byelaws, however when it comes to fora this this one, you'd need very strong evidence that it was a certain individual before action could be taken.

Also what would it prove? If an individual is barred, then the individual can just re-apply under a different username & use a googlemail address, which once used can be closed.

I know from past experience that moderators can see everyone's IP addresses, so it wouldn't be difficult to spot a repeat application.

 

[JustinStacey.x]

And an IP address can be changed in a matter of seconds, so that one doesn't really fly either. They'd have to ban that entire range to come close to getting rid of folk and then that makes anyone else on that range unable to get in !

As for sticking your head out of the window I think it's nuts how people can do that but each to their own... I quite value my head being on my shoulders thank you very much.

 

[dan_atki]

Regarding banned members who re-register. We use several methods of finding such occurrences which I won't go into.

As stated in our rules, bans are not normally made against IP addresses but against usernames and all re-registered accounts get banned. If it becomes a bigger problem then other ways to keep such users at bay are discussed and implemented. It's not a big problem - we don't lose sleep over it so neither should you! Many members respect their ban and if any re-registration is to occur it is normally only once.

Regarding whether members discussing potentially unsafe things on here should result in a ban then that depends. Actively promoting dangerous and illegal activities will normally result in posts deleted and a PM sent. Further postings will result in more severe action being taken against the member, which may include banning as a last resort.

Discussing things like this, on the other hand, is not a problem unless flaming starts to occur between members. We also won't ban members based on what they do in their videos on YouTube or say in their posts on another forum.

 

[GB]

All depends which side of the train you stick your head out and how much you stick it out by.

Sticking your head (note, not half your body) out on the Cess side and your unlikely to come to any real harm...though I wouldnt recommend it. Do the same on the other side and there is a real chance of a serious or fatal injury as the clearance is obviously alot smaller.

Its also not always easy to see an on-comming train.

 

[Lee_Again]

If you mean 'bashing', by having your head out to hear the noise of the locomotive and seeing the passing environment, I see no problem. If you're sensible, and bring your head back into the vestibule when necessary (like when a train is coming from the other direction, when going through tunnels etc), then IMO, it is perfectly safe and poses no real risk to me or anyone else.

If, however, you have everything above your waste-line out of the window, that’s a different, and more serious, matter.

I genuinely don't wish to be personal, so sorry Rich, you just happened to be first.

I could change your post to this...

"If you mean 'tresspassing', by walking around yards to see trains up close and seeing the environment, I see no problem. If you're sensible, and watch out for trains when necessary (like when a train is coming in to the yard or going out the yard etc), then IMO, it is perfectly safe and poses no real risk to me or anyone else.

If, however, you don't understand how yards work, that’s a different, and more serious, matter."




I really don't see any difference in your post and my re-wording. This is typical of the "I know what I'm doing" attitude that is often spoken when people try and justify their own daft adventures.

I'm not sure I want to turn this in to a 'yes you can', 'no you can't' debate about baning people from the forum. That was said as a delibrate poke to generate a response.

My point is that Bashing, Tresspassing or similar are all very dangerous and should not be encouraged in any way; especially on this forum. You are 5 seconds from death with all these activities. For some users to villify tresspassing but at the same time condone Bashing is amazing.

 

[reacher]

I noticed someone with there head out the window on my train once from a few coaches away shouting at people in the street below us as we were going over a bridge. To my shock when I got to where the person was it turned out to be a young girl balanced on a suit case with almost half her body out the window!
Even more shocking was the fact that her parents were stood in the vestibule next to her and couldn't care less... Then gave me shrugs and dirty looks for pointing out the dangers to them! Unbelievable.:roll:

 

[Lampshade]

I was on a HST a few weeks ago and suddenly an announcement "can the numpty hanging out of the window please stop and close the window, I don't want to have to go through court proceedings again". The train was going near enough full speed, certainly felt pretty quick and I just thought to myself - are some people really this stupid?

 

[GB]

Heres some numpties:roll:

The line curves round to the left there, so there is little or no chance in seeing an on comming train in time.

 

[williamn]

I'd only do it on heritage lines when speeds are pretty low, think its safe enough there and part of the fun of a trip on a preserved line - smuts in the eye and all.

 

[GospelOak117]

The old South Central slammers were fitted with window bars or partially opening windows. This reduced the risk of people being stupid and at the same time allowed for a pleasureable experience by just standing by the door and watching, hearing and smelling the world go by. Perhaps HST's should be so fitted, but in such an image conscious age window bars would make a train look too dated and unappealing. I personally prefer the rugged look so wouldnt mind.

 

[HSTfan!!!]

Quite happy to stand up close to the open window but wouldn't really stick my head out these days tbh

 

[rick9525]

Not so many trains you can do this on now but on a recent trip only did it when stopped at stations and there was no line next to the train.

Agreed you should not do it when the trains are moving as it only takes a split second to be hit by somthing and death may well result.

 

[CCF23]

On the whole I agree with Rich if people like myself are confident enough of their safety and pull in their heads when another train, bridge, tunnel are coming or a bend that you can't see around. It is a great thrill when the train is traveling fast and it will not be happening for much longer on the main line (once Mark 3 carriages are taken out in a couple of years).

As for banning people people should be banned for their behavior wholly on the forum or in person in the presence or to a moderator in my opinion this shouldn't be for things off of the forum. If someone doesn't like another person's opinion (an example for me being a member who recently got banned.He laughed and said 'natural selection' when an old lady got killed on a level crossing on the Cambrian Line this made me confused an somewhat angry although i thought this is only a internet forum) i think they should remember that this is only a online forum and you don't have to meet or hear the person's views in person.

Sorry for going of the point slightly

Chris

 

[theblackwatch]

My point is that Bashing, Tresspassing or similar are all very dangerous and should not be encouraged in any way; especially on this forum. You are 5 seconds from death with all these activities. For some users to villify tresspassing but at the same time condone Bashing is amazing.

Bashing is not a dangerous activity - today I bashed a 180 and an HST on Grand Central. If it was dangerous, then surely all the passengers (and staff) on the train I travelled on today were at much as risk as me as they were travelling just like me and doing nothing differently. It was more risky crossing the road going to the station to join the train, should that be banned too?

 

[generalvegitable]

alot of things these days that are now illegal under health and safety are perfectly safe if you are careful, flailing is safe if you are careful, as is sticking your head out of the window, and walking round working depots for example. its just this nanny state going mad that is saying that everything is dangerous, and yes it is, but for most things you are safe if you are careful. soon if it keeps going you won't be able to leave your house incase you get ill or fall over

 

[37401]

hanging out of a window is no different to tresspassing and is equally unsafe. Should the administrators remove membership to those users who are involved?

how is window hanging trespassing? Firstly staff do it and secondly you are on the train so how the hell are you trespassing?

as for you second remark :roll:

Trespass (properly to go beyond, from Lat. trans, "across" + passus, "act of going from place to place"; French outrepasser is from Latin ultra = "beyond" + passus) is a legal concept, which refers to intrusion into another person's property

Doing heads out is not going onto private property

 

[CCF23]

alot of things these days that are now illegal under health and safety are perfectly safe if you are careful, flailing is safe if you are careful, as is sticking your head out of the window, and walking round working depots for example. its just this nanny state going mad that is saying that everything is dangerous, and yes it is, but for most things you are safe if you are careful. soon if it keeps going you won't be able to leave your house incase you get ill or fall over

I agree reminds of the 3D film i recently saw at the cinema, Final Destination (everyone dies in strange ways) i you think like this then yeah hanging out of windows is dangerous and so is crossing the road, swimming, going to the cinema, watching sports, going on a escalator etc. Although i can understand the dangers of window hanging

 

[37401]

EDITED
REASON: I can see where this is going!

 

[90019]

Doing heads out is not going onto private property

Technically, in a way, it is. You're already on private property by being on the railway, but your ticket grants you permission to be within the boundaries of the train you're on.


I have no issues with having your head out of the window, so long as you're aware of the potential dangers and aren't being an idiot. If someone with their head out of the window is stupid and gets a tree in the face, they deserve to be laughed at IMO.
However sticking more than your head out is, frankly, a moronic thing to do. And flailing just makes you look like an imbecile.

 

[theblackwatch]

Where on earth did this ridiculous 'heads out' phrase come from which has only appeared in the past couple of years, usually used by children? Can't you call it looking out? And the use of plural indicates you have more than one head!

 

[SWT Driver]

oh and for the record yes ive done heads out! and ive even flailed! ive done heads out at 125mph!

as long as you can see whats coming your fine!

Illegal, Dangerous, Irresponsible & Downright Stupid.

Stop trying to condone an activity that can not only cause a fatality or at least serious injury, but serious delays & inconvenience to hundreds of people.

 

[JustinStacey.x]

oh and for the record yes ive done heads out! and ive even flailed! ive done heads out at 125mph!

as long as you can see whats coming your fine!

To be honest I don't see how you can see what's coming and safely get out of its way at 125MPH. Since there are 60 minutes in an hour, equalling 120 minutes in two hours, travelling at 125MPH means you are travelling a fraction over 2 miles every minute, which means a mile every 30 seconds, a half mile every 15 seconds, and a quarter mile every 7.5 seconds. A quarter mile is still a pretty big distance to cross in such little time, and with the wind in your face you are hardly going to spot an obstacle until it is right on top of you...

 

[Dai.]

Illegal, Dangerous, Irresponsible & Downright Stupid.

Stop trying to condone an activity that can not only cause a fatality or at least serious injury, but serious delays & inconvenience to hundreds of people.

They are not condoning the activity, they are saying it is safe within boundaries,

I would also like too add my two cents to this;
I've never pushed my head out the window of a moving train, it's really not my thing, however, it is a safe activity if done right (like many other things, body building for example). If you take into account you need to put your head out of the window on the correct side where you won't get smacked round the face with things on the sidelines and other trains and understand you need to see what is coming your way and you will need to move your head in for the train to pass, then everything should be alright, it wouldn't count as trespassing either as some people seem to be pointing out. You only trespass if your whole body is in the area, your body being still on the train, you are still in the correct legal place.

 

[Lee_Again]

how is window hanging trespassing? Firstly staff do it and secondly you are on the train so how the hell are you trespassing?

as for you second remark :roll:



Doing heads out is not going onto private property

For somebody who clearly considers themselves intelligent by quoting word derivations it's a shame you were not clever enough to see that I was comparing hanging out of a window to trespassing in the sense that they are both dangerous, not similar in a literal sense. I'm sure you realise this.

For the avoidance of doubt, if I said that riding a motor cycle without a helmet is like walking a tight rope without a safety net it is clear that both are dangerous but obviously not the same.

 

[AlexS]

Sticking your head out a train window is not lethal.

I do it on a semi regular basis watching the train into the station or doing a propelling move from the leading vehicle.

It's all contextual though. I know my layout and as a result I'm better able to judge when it's safe to be leaning out a train.

There are elements of danger in most things on the railway. I've worked trackside both on preserved lines and a few NR ones as well and I hear about far more injuries in the slow paced depot environment than out on the open line!

 

[Lampshade]

It really depends, if you stick your head out of the window as a Valenta HST is thrashing out of a station, apart from earache, it really isn't much of a problem. If you stick your head out of the window of said HST when another one may be coming the other way at top speed... that's not so good.

 

[yorkie]

(once Mark 3 carriages are taken out in a couple of years).

A couple of years?!

oh and for the record yes ive done heads out! and ive even flailed! ive done heads out at 125mph!

You can't stick your whole head out at 125, it's impossible due to wind resistance. Having enough out to see/hear is a bit different as your whole head isn't out. Indeed it is possible to have your head within the 'kinetic envelope' (thanks to a guard who said that to 1D53 for the idea!) of the train so it is right on the edge of being out, but NOT actually out, to experience virtually the same thrill as if your head was out, and this is what I often do. There's nothing wrong with that at all.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

For the avoidance of doubt, if I said that riding a motor cycle without a helmet is like walking a tight rope without a safety net it is clear that both are dangerous but obviously not the same.

But riding a motor cycle at 10mph without a helmet is going to be a lot safer than riding a motor cycle at 125mph with a helmet. But if you say the former is simply "without a helmet" and the latter is "with a helmet" then it provides a false sense of what is safe.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Bashing is not a dangerous activity

I agree. It's certainly a lot safer than "cruising" which is the equivalent name given to car enthusiasts who travel for no reason other than for the journey itself! One could expect to do many thousands of miles of rail travel without any likelihood of encountering an incident endangering themselves.

As for "bashing" and "heads out", most bashers don't do it, and prefer to sit down in my experience. People who assume all bashers do heads out therefore bashing is unsafe are unknowledgeable on the subject.

 

[andylloyd]

If you mean 'bashing', by having your head out to hear the noise of the locomotive and seeing the passing environment, I see no problem. If you're sensible, and bring your head back into the vestibule when necessary (like when a train is coming from the other direction, when going through tunnels etc), then IMO, it is perfectly safe and poses no real risk to me or anyone else.

If, however, you have everything above your waste-line out of the window, that’s a different, and more serious, matter.

I got the AXC set from York - Newcastle on sat evening, had my ticket checked by the guard.
I asked her if it was ok to film with the camera resting on the window and she said it was fine.
As Long as your sensible then you will come to no harm Just common sense to be honest