Have TfL been told to accept e-tickets?

plugwash

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Have they figured out a plan for banging ATOC and TfL's heads together?

As far as I can tell, that is the main blocker for phasing out credit card sized ticket stock (CCST).
 
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Ralph Ayres

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TfL will need substantial funding to add e-readers to every gate, provide portable readers for gateline and ticket checking staff, and create the infrastructure to connect everything to some central TOC database that allows them to work out if the ticket is valid at every location it is used and make sure it can't be used more than once. If they get that funding I'm sure they'd be happy to comply.
 

Haywain

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TfL will need substantial funding to add e-readers to every gate, provide portable readers for gateline and ticket checking staff, and create the infrastructure to connect everything to some central TOC database that allows them to work out if the ticket is valid at every location it is used and make sure it can't be used more than once. If they get that funding I'm sure they'd be happy to comply.
Indeed. If TfL were to accept Travelcards as e-Tickets they would need something in the region of 7000* barcode readers for bus as well as all the barrier lines on rail.

*I think that's the figure that's been mentioned for smartcard readers.
 

JonathanH

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Indeed. If TfL were to accept Travelcards as e-Tickets they would need something in the region of 7000* barcode readers for bus as well as all the barrier lines on rail.
Surely, no one expects Travelcards to be issued as e-tickets when there is already a technological solution available via fare capping using Contactless cards.

(I know that there are issues around the Comtactless limit and travelcards from miles away from London but perhaps some of that would be sacrificed.)
 

Bletchleyite

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Surely, no one expects Travelcards to be issued as e-tickets when there is already a technological solution available via fare capping using Contactless cards.

(I know that there are issues around the Comtactless limit and travelcards from miles away from London but perhaps some of that would be sacrificed.)
The outboundary Travelcard is the big problem with e-ticketing. I suspect the way forward with that is (like Merseytravel Saveaways) that it becomes an ITSO-only product. Then you only need to put barcode readers at the main railway interchanges, which is a much cheaper prospect. If the existing "you can leave where you like but not re-enter" thing allowing you to get off elsewhere remained, this could be dealt with at intermediate stations by an app on the gateline staff's mobile phones - this use-case is very rare, few enough staff even know you can!

Or even simpler, just take 2 quid off fares routed +LONDON and remove the Tube validity. I'd rather that, TBH, as I often prefer to walk or use a Sadiq Cycle.

There is no point in buying an inboundary Travelcard except niche cases like groups of children from outside London and Network Railcard discounts. Other solutions can be found for those matters.

This all done, there would I'd imagine be a considerable saving from not having to maintain the magstripe reading kit on the barriers.
 

alistairlees

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Or even simpler, just take 2 quid off fares routed +LONDON and remove the Tube validity. I'd rather that, TBH, as I often prefer to walk or use a Sadiq Cycle.

This all done, there would I'd imagine be a considerable saving from not having to maintain the magstripe reading kit on the barriers.
The correct answer.
 

matt_world2004

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ITSO tickets from rail companies are already compatible with London underground readers and bus reader providing they have a valid ticket on them to use on the underground.
 

SickyNicky

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The correct answer.
Provided that it's unambiguously accepted that a through journey using Oyster or contactless for the cross-London leg is still eligible for both missed advance protection and delay repay.

And it's a problem for railcard holders who don't live near London and don't have an Oyster card.
 

Bletchleyite

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Provided that it's unambiguously accepted that a through journey using Oyster or contactless for the cross-London leg is still eligible for both missed advance protection and delay repay.
On a through ticket it absolutely would be just like it is in other places where you need to cross town on foot.

Not on a through ticket that's an interesting point, I don't see why not as long as minimum connection times were met.
 

Bletchleyite

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That seems a rather backward step! Removing a through ticket because of a technology gap. Must remember that every time someone complains about a lack of through ticketing elsewhere in the country.
Through ticketing of that kind is about convenience. If you can just tap your card on a reader as easily as you can insert a ticket, does it even matter any more?
 

RT4038

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Through ticketing of that kind is about convenience. If you can just tap your card on a reader as easily as you can insert a ticket, does it even matter any more?
To ticketing enthusiasts, probably not. To others, I'm not so sure. Also, I think it unlikely that the value knocked off the through ticket will equal the cost of the separate TfL tickets, as this is bound to be some kind of bulk discount price granted to the rail industry.
 

LNW-GW Joint

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Or even simpler, just take 2 quid off fares routed +LONDON and remove the Tube validity. I'd rather that, TBH, as I often prefer to walk or use a Sadiq Cycle.
The Spanish solution (eg for crossing Madrid) is that you get a Cercanias booking code from Renfe with your e-ticket and you use that to get a "free" paper metro ticket at the ATMs in Madrid.
 

edwin_m

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The Spanish solution (eg for crossing Madrid) is that you get a Cercanias booking code from Renfe with your e-ticket and you use that to get a "free" paper metro ticket at the ATMs in Madrid.
Having attempted to understand the latest ticketing system in Madrid, any pre-paid ticket that avoids having to do so gets my vote.
 

MikeWh

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There is no point in buying an inboundary Travelcard except niche cases like groups of children from outside London and Network Railcard discounts. Other solutions can be found for those matters.
Another issue is 2-for-1 entry to attractions (not at the moment obvs). You must have a paper ticket to claim these.
 

alistairlees

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That seems a rather backward step! Removing a through ticket because of a technology gap. Must remember that every time someone complains about a lack of through ticketing elsewhere in the country.
The world's evolved quite a bit since tickets valid across London on the Underground were intriduced (in the 1980s? Or earlier? Come to think of it I am not sure when). Fares and ticketing structure should move with the times, not be stuck in some pointless timewarp.
 

Hadders

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Or even simpler, just take 2 quid off fares routed +LONDON and remove the Tube validity. I'd rather that, TBH, as I often prefer to walk or use a Sadiq Cycle.
The correct answer.
At the weekend a railcard discounted Stevenage - London Zones 1-6 Travelcard costs £12.20. If this was abolished then I'd need to buy a return to London Terminals costing £8.10 and then use PAYG, which depending on what travelling I'm doing would cap at £8.70. This would mean a days travel costs £16.80 compared to £12.20 - a 37% increase!!!!
 

alistairlees

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At the weekend a railcard discounted Stevenage - London Zones 1-6 Travelcard costs £12.20. If this was abolished then I'd need to buy a return to London Terminals costing £8.10 and then use PAYG, which depending on what travelling I'm doing would cap at £8.70. This would mean a days travel costs £16.80 compared to £12.20 - a 37% increase!!!!
Just put it on a smartcard (though I'm not sure if GTR do day Travelcards on Smartcard; some TOCs like c2c do though).
 

MikeWh

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Well that's improved considerably since I last looked at it.
There is no point in buying an inboundary Travelcard except niche cases like groups of children from outside London and Network Railcard discounts. Other solutions can be found for those matters.
But, my point was in relation to inboundary travelcards where the most likely method is Oyster/contactless PAYG. It is true that London residents wanting to make use of the offers cannot do so if they travel using PAYG. The benefit of free entry will often outweigh the extra cost of the day travelcard over the daily cap.
 

Bletchleyite

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But, my point was in relation to inboundary travelcards where the most likely method is Oyster/contactless PAYG. It is true that London residents wanting to make use of the offers cannot do so if they travel using PAYG. The benefit of free entry will often outweigh the extra cost of the day travelcard over the daily cap.
True, but a special offer is not a reason to design a fare structure a particular way. If they wanted to offer it to PAYG users a way could be found.
 

LNW-GW Joint

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Having attempted to understand the latest ticketing system in Madrid, any pre-paid ticket that avoids having to do so gets my vote.
Last time I tried it, all the ATMs at Chamartín were out of action, and with a vast queue at the ticket office I was forced to take a taxi to Atocha...
It's actually a good way to see some of the tourist sights you miss underground.
It's also a surprisingly long way (8km or so).
 

Hadders

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Dedicated barriers are unlikely to work. People wouldn’t read the signs so they’d end up blocking the barriers while they figured out what to do.
 

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