Have you been to the beach? (English experience)

[Ianno87]

True. the only thing I could imagine working in that situation would be counting them on the train at Waterloo. Too many, get the next one or go to Bognor instead.

Then when people want to join at Woking, Winchester....

Arguably, the people making shorter trips to the seaside should be given priority...

 

[yorksrob]

Then when people want to join at Woking, Winchester....

Arguably, the people making shorter trips to the seaside should be given priority...

I suppose you could start the stopper from Woking (or just not tell anyone that it's at Waterloo !).

 

[Ianno87]

TOCs should have a good-enough idea of loadings by now to be able to highlight on maps where 'Discretionary' travel is possible without jeopardising social distancing.

E.g. if people started using trains between Cambridge and King's Lynn it is unlikely to become a problem, but Cambridge to Liverpool Street/King's Cross maybe not*

*Although 12-car Thameslink trains have *heaps* of capacity.

 

[yorksrob]

TOCs should have a good-enough idea of loadings by now to be able to highlight on maps where 'Discretionary' travel is possible without jeopardising social distancing.

E.g. if people started using trains between Cambridge and King's Lynn it is unlikely to become a problem, but Cambridge to Liverpool Street/King's Cross maybe not*

*Although 12-car Thameslink trains have *heaps* of capacity.

Indeed. For once, Brighton seems to be a decent bet, with it's very long, austere Thameslink units.

 

[yorksrob]

I suppose you could start the stopper from Woking (or just not tell anyone that it's at Waterloo !).

Or perhaps use the old Gatwick Express trick of not telling anyone at Waterloo that it's stopping at Bournemouth.

 

[Ianno87]

Indeed. For once, Brighton seems to be a decent bet, with it's very long, austere Thameslink units.

But the map should not encourage even more 'honeypotting' than is already the case. Just imagining 12 cars of passengers disgorging through the gates at Brighton...

I.e. Discretionary travel should be permitted on lines where people are least likely to want to go!

 

[Bletchleyite]

Then when people want to join at Woking, Winchester....

Arguably, the people making shorter trips to the seaside should be given priority...

Well, there's one very effective way to do it, but everyone here seems to be rubbishing it.

 

[Bikeman78]

But the map should not encourage even more 'honeypotting' than is already the case. Just imagining 12 cars of passengers disgorging through the gates at Brighton...

I.e. Discretionary travel should be permitted on lines where people are least likely to want to go!

I don't see what can be done to prevent it. Remember the chaos at Gatwick a few years ago? Even the prospect of a replacement bus from Gatwick to Brighton didn't stop thousands of people turning up.

I agree with your second point though. I doubt many people want to go on a 317 to Hertford East.

 

[Ianno87]

I don't see what can be done to prevent it. Remember the chaos at Gatwick a few years ago? Even the prospect of a replacement bus from Gatwick to Brighton didn't stop thousands of people turning up.

I agree with your second point though. I doubt many people want to go on a 317 to Hertford East.

The map would make not a jot of difference to the honeypots. Those sorts of people are unlikely to take the slightest bit of notice of such information.

But I think at this point we *should* start to be encoraging use of routes where trains are otherwise basically running around empty, and start building some the railway's revenue and ridership back.

Even just short sections to "control" it for now - Broxbourne to Hertford East, Ely to King's Lynn, Sudbury to Marks Tey, etc.

 

[yorksrob]

But I think at this point we *should* start to be encoraging use of routes where trains are otherwise basically running around empty, and start building some the railway's revenue and ridership back.

Even just short sections to "control" it for now - Broxbourne to Hertford East, Ely to King's Lynn, Sudbury to Marks Tey, etc.

This is true.

Londoners (and other city dwellers) probably have more need than most to get out of their flats and concrete neighbourhoods for the sake of their wellbeing.

It's a question of how do we manage that process with the least risk.

Promoting some of the smaller seaside towns could be a way to do that. I could think of a lot of places on the Kent and Sussex coast which could do with the business.

 

[A Challenge]

They should start running reservation only excursions to the beach, using charter stock that's not being used at the moment

 

[Ianno87]

They should start running reservation only excursions to the beach, using charter stock that's not being used at the moment

Who is "they"?

Again, we should not be actively promoting *more* honeypotting at the moment.

 

[O L Leigh]

It's notable that the TOC mentioned was Cross Country, which is known for a certain amount of chaos anyway.

Does anybody know whether South Western Trains also experienced "chaos" on their services to Bournemouth as well ?

The SWR services all being 10/12 cars probably cope a bit better than the smaller voyager trains which even if doubled up to 8 cars barely have many more seats than a 5 car SWR 444 (think an 8 car voyager has about 40 more seats?) obviously actual number of usable seats is less with social distancing.

XC guards are being asked to monitor on-train loadings and report instances of overcrowding back to control so that services can be strengthened where possible. The existence of additional sets down at that end of the network does suggest a degree of forward planning to boost capacity in the event of a surge in traveller numbers so that social distancing guidelines can be followed.

However, that XC reported overcrowding and while SWR did not doesn't necessarily mean that the SWR services were not also similarly overloaded. It's simply that XC are monitoring the situation across their network where other TOCs may not be.

 

[adc82140]

Went to the beach in Dorset yesterday at Southbourne. A few people around, but easy enough to stay 50 metres from the next people, never mind 2 metres. I don't know why everyone wants to go to Durdle Door etc.

On the subject of using the trains, I'm in a quandry. We're currently walking the Thames Path in stages. Our next stage is Putney to Richmond. The plan was to park up at Richmond, and take the train to Putney to start the walk. I'm struggling to justify the train journey to myself, even though it'd be way off peak.

 

[Ianno87]

XC guards are being asked to monitor on-train loadings and report instances of overcrowding back to control so that services can be strengthened where possible. The existence of additional sets down at that end of the network does suggest a degree of forward planning to boost capacity in the event of a surge in traveller numbers so that social distancing guidelines can be followed.

However, that XC reported overcrowding and while SWR did not doesn't necessarily mean that the SWR services were not also similarly overloaded. It's simply that XC are monitoring the situation across their network where other TOCs may not be.

If Bournemouth weren't a train crew depot, withdrawing XC services west of Southampton might not have been a bad idea....

 

[yorksrob]

However, that XC reported overcrowding and while SWR did not doesn't necessarily mean that the SWR services were not also similarly overloaded. It's simply that XC are monitoring the situation across their network where other TOCs may not be.

Very true. It could also reflect that as a commuter TOC, SWR are better placed to resource expected surges in demand.

 

[Whistler40145]

I live in Blackpool and haven’t been anywhere near the beach in two months

 

[Djgr]

The beaches on the Wirral were busier than I have ever seen yesterday. Presumably this is due to the North Wales beaches being "closed".

 

[Whistler40145]

It’s probably been 30 plus years since I was on the beach at Blackpool

 

[Bletchleyite]

The beaches on the Wirral were busier than I have ever seen yesterday. Presumably this is due to the North Wales beaches being "closed".

Quite possibly - North Wales would normally be the beach destination from most of the North West and is presently off limits.

 

[A Challenge]

Who is "they"?

Again, we should not be actively promoting *more* honeypotting at the moment.

I meant the train companies (not sure which) should run them, as people are going anyway, to free up space on normal services.

 

[ChiefPlanner]

Who is "they"?

Again, we should not be actively promoting *more* honeypotting at the moment.

I would love to know where this stash of "charter stock" is located, and even better , how it would be operated and paid for. This is not BR about 1955 when there were about 10,000 vehicles available for "special use" and depots of freight engines and staff looking forward to earning a bit of overtime.

We have to manage "essential journeys" - and from next week those who have to travel to work in say London , like a close family member ....sort of keeps the economy going (export trade work) , anything else is superfluous.

 

[Islineclear3_1]

We drove to the beach today as my daughter hadn't been out since the start of lockdown and she had recently finished her finals.

It wasn't that busy and for the few hours we were there, I saw only 2 people wearing masks

 

[YorksDMU]

I’ve just returned from a bike ride to Hornsea, East Yorkshire, and the beach was rammed. I didn’t get off the bike, I just started the ride back home to Beverley.

 

[alxndr]

I overheard a pair of my neighbours talking this morning. They began by saying how we "must remember that we're not there yet" and discussing how they'd seen the footage of Durdle Door yesterday. A few minutes later they revealed that they were getting in the car ready to go to the beach themselves.

I haven't been to the beach myself, and most likely will not go until we are allowed to visit other people overnight so that I can combine it with a trip to my parents.

 

[Domh245]

A quick check of google map's traffic layer suggest that Camber has been busy today!

 

[Tetchytyke]

Of course beaches will be busy, it's hot weather and everywhere else people would go on a hot day is closed to the public. A lot of people, especially in London, do not have gardens to relax in.

As for social distancing, I simply cannot believe that people will be sitting or lying less than six feet from a stranger. Six feet is not very far, really. The real issue will be groups of people meeting up together, but that is inevitable.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Of course beaches will be busy, it's hot weather and everywhere else people would go on a hot day is closed to the public. A lot of people, especially in London, do not have gardens to relax in.

As for social distancing, I simply cannot believe that people will be sitting or lying less than six feet from a stranger. Six feet is not very far, really. The real issue will be groups of people meeting up together, but that is inevitable.

People don't sit within 2m of another group on beaches generally. That's way, way too packed for it to be enjoyable. Typically it would be far more than 2m.

This whole beach furore is threefold in my book:
1. Justifiable complaints about obstructive parking and littering, both of which are already an offence and just need enforcement
2. Complaints about people parking in residential areas, to which the answer is "tough, petition your Council for a Permit Scheme if it bothers you that much". (See also: streets near railway stations - though not always - there is plenty of non-Permit street parking near Bletchley station if you wanted it but people mostly behave!)
3. NIMBYism from people who have quite enjoyed having their beautiful tourist hotspot without the tourists. Well, er, tough, if you don't like tourists don't live in a touristy area - literally all of them have been touristy areas for years, potentially well over 100 years, so definitely within the timescale that any current resident purchased or rented their house. Odds on if you do the tourists are making a considerable contribution to your wage!

 

[Tetchytyke]

Justifiable complaints about obstructive parking and littering, both of which are already an offence and just need enforcement

Enforcement and the opening of facilities.

If you are in a town with a famously nice beach, and your council choose to lock up the car parks and public toilets, then it is a) inevitable what will happen and b) a complaint for your local councillors.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Enforcement and the opening of facilities.

If you are in a town with a famously nice beach, and your council choose to lock up the car parks and public toilets, then it is a) inevitable what will happen and b) a complaint for your local councillors.

Yes, this. Some Councils and locals are being obstinate, and as I've posted upthread I will remember, if I encounter any such obstinacy directly, which ones, so I can avoid giving them tourist money in future.