Heathrow Express use continuing to decline

[richardderby]

Elizabeth line takes nine minutes longer to Paddington and offers direct service to more important parts of London. Less than half the fare too, why would you bother with HEX...

 

[Canary73]

I arrived in to Heathrow yesterday from my connecting flight into Helsinki and although it was getting on for 2200, most opted for the Elizabeth Line. It worked for me as I needed Liverpool Street. Its only on the return trip I use it as its still twice the price of the tube.

 

[12LDA28C]

Elizabeth line takes nine minutes longer to Paddington and offers direct service to more important parts of London. Less than half the fare too, why would you bother with HEX...

'More important' is rather subjective.

 

[BazingaTribe]

edit -- NVM, I thought the baggage check in service was much better than it actually was.

 

[Watershed]

Elizabeth line takes nine minutes longer to Paddington and offers direct service to more important parts of London. Less than half the fare too, why would you bother with HEX...

Less than half the fare for a one way journey (and could be less than that if making other travel the same day in the TfL zones).

But for a return journey (within a month) you can get a period return to/from Paddington for both the Elizabeth line and HeX, which makes the price difference is closer.

'More important' is rather subjective.

Compared to the Piccadilly line, perhaps. But much though Paddington is undergoing regeneration, it's not a major London destination yet.

 

[DynamicSpirit]

Clearly plenty of people are willing to use the tube. Six to 12 trains per hour (depending on terminal) and they are all well filled with suitcases.

Indeed. I live in Abbey Wood, so using the Elizabeth line to Heathrow ought to be a no-brainer timewise. But last time I flew, I arrived at Heathrow and without a 2nd thought jumped straight on the Piccadilly line with my suitcases (going Leicester Square-TCR-Elizabeth line home) - and that was 100% because of the high Heathrow fares on the Lizzie line.

 

[officewalla]

I would wager that most passengers who do buy tickets for it have probably been deceived into thinking it's the only reasonable route into central London.

I found the signage and advertising at Heathrow to be somewhat misleading. You also have annoying pushy staff members circling like vultures ready to sell £25 tickets to unsuspecting visitors - even at stupid o'clock in the morning. It was honestly kind of embarrassing coming back to Heathrow a few weeks back and seeing this, it's not exactly a good welcome (the experience also reminded me how we Brits love completely useless, repetitive "safety" announcements like "Please do not put children on the baggage conveyor belts"). Plus all of the King's Guards imagery - call me unpatriotic, but I'd like to think we could find something better as a country to showcase the UK than a bloke with a dead bear on his head, specific to a small part of London.

Pretty much the same in every international airport. Rome has the Leonardo and Vienna the CAT for example. Both are fast and direct but at a cost and the OBB S7 into Vienna only takes 10 minutes longer for €2.20 (ithink if you have the city transport card) or €4.80 if not against €14 for the CAT. No brainer once you know and Heathrow is the same.

 

[Mike395]

Pretty much the same in every international airport. Rome has the Leonardo and Vienna the CAT for example. Both are fast and direct but at a cost and the OBB S7 into Vienna only takes 10 minutes longer for €2.20 (ithink if you have the city transport card) or €4.80 if not against €14 for the CAT. No brainer once you know and Heathrow is the same.

The CAT does, at least, have the perk of free luggage storage on day of arrival/departure, which offsets the difference somewhat if you were going to pay for this anyway (I've used the train making use of this perk before a couple of times when my final destination was nearer the city CAT terminal than Vienna HBf). Without it though, yeah the S7 (or occasional RJ) is the way to go.

 

[TrainSailing]

What pains me is seeing people pay for the Heathrow express from T4 (from which it doesn’t run). You have to take the EL to T2/3 to catch the HEX but then have an almost 15 minute wait on the platform. You end up arriving at Paddington just a few minutes before the EL you got off at t2/3 to catch your ‘express’ train.

Or even worse anybody using the Heathrow express on those Sundays where a 2 track railway is in operation for engineering works and the hex is down to 2 tph. In those cases the advertised journey times cannot be met and it means whichever train leaves T2/3 first will get to Pad first EL Stopper or HEX.

 

[SephenWorceste]

I was surprised the to hear the GWR train manager pushing Heathrow Express on the PA as we approached Paddington from Worcester. For our convenience he told us exactly which platform to head to.

 

[Mike395]

I was surprised the to hear the GWR train manager pushing Heathrow Express on the PA as we approached Paddington from Worcester. For our convenience he told us exactly which platform to head to.

To be fair to that TM - people arriving on NR from outside London into Paddington who have just bought a ticket to ‘Heathrow Rail’ (I suspect the majority) might as well use the Express.

 

[BazingaTribe]

When I last went on a proper holiday two years ago (to Disneyworld in Florida) I got a package deal which included airport transfers and the Genie+ Disney ride fast pass system and as soon as booking windows opened I was reserving dining packages at the big ticket restaurants. Might people be being sold HEx tickets this way and thus the expense ends up being included in the up front costs, and thus dwarfed by everything else?

Genie+, notoriously expensive to 'walk-up' visitors to the House of Mouse, cost me £80 for a week, but since I was paying out £2000+ for everything else, it was a trivial add-on. Were I planning a trip to the UK from the other side of the Atlantic, I'd imagine I'd look more favourably on similar return tickets if the other stuff was way more expensive and being paid all at once.

Additionally, as someone with mobility and motion sickness issues, I willingly paid another two hundred pounds on top of a £600 package deal to Yerevan in May in order to get decent seats (front row with extra leg-room) on a long flight with Air France. After having been crushed into a 777 window seat with a gammy leg and walking stick on the Disney transatlantic round-trip, paying extra for comfort while travelling is luckily accessible to me and therefore something I'd do for the major trips. I know someone out there so my airport transfer might be provided for but I'm no stranger to foreign metro services if there's no-one there to greet me (and I speak Russian so can navigate even if English isn't spoken) -- but I can and have just taken taxis if the exchange rate is favourable.

Having experienced both the tube and the Elizabeth line as a regular traveller, quite frankly if I'd just got off a flight from any destination outside the UK and had dropped a large amount of money on the trip, I'd probably be willing to pay a bit extra for a bit of space on a proper train. I don't doubt it's way cheaper to take the various commuter rail options, and for budget conscious travellers that's better, but there are things that you think about other than price when you can -- and certainly I'm in a very privileged position where I can afford to spend more. But when your bill is in four figures, two figures for a train fare becomes more accessible. Sometimes you have to put yourself into another mindset entirely to understand why someone might deliberately choose a more expensive option.

So people who can pay might find it more attractive because of the way they experience travel. As I said, I also personally prefer to have things involved with getting to and from my destination booked ahead of time as a lump sum -- perhaps that might be what a lot of people are doing with HEx. In my interrail and backpacking days I did use to wing it completely, but, older, wiser and richer that I am, I can afford to take other elements into consideration than just cost.

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

To be fair to that TM - people arriving on NR from outside London into Paddington who have just bought a ticket to ‘Heathrow Rail’ (I suspect the majority) might as well use the Express.

I have done this before and I can say, much as people love to insist that Heathrow Express is pointless now that “the Elizabeth line takes nine minutes longer tops,” not stopping at Ealing, Southall, Hayes, etc. was very nice after already travelling over 100 miles. It would have just made everything seem way more of a slog, especially when I’d have had to trek downstairs too.

Perhaps HX should be marketed more at long distance travellers from GWR destinations (complete with more good value fares not much extra on an advance to Paddington), with the Elizabeth line targetting those from Central London?

 

[DynamicSpirit]

If I understand correctly, the paths are basically useless to GWR because they only go as far as Airport Junction and there isn't the capacity to run them further along the fasts to Reading.

How on Earth is it that (without Heathrow Express) there are paths free on the fast lines East of Airport Junction, but not West of Airport Junction? I mean, as you head further West, you get fewer trains on the fast lines because some of the GWR trains swap to the slow lines, so that should free up more paths shouldn't it?

 

[JN114]

How on Earth is it that (without Heathrow Express) there are paths free on the fast lines East of Airport Junction, but not West of Airport Junction? I mean, as you head further West, you get fewer trains on the fast lines because some of the GWR trains swap to the slow lines, so that should free up more paths shouldn't it?

Short answer, the signal sections become longer; thus fewer trains can run. Whilst the tunnels and electrification are the big/obvious bits of infrastructure that came from the construction of the Heathrow Rail link in the 90s; the programme also included improvements to the signalling to enable those 4tph to “fit” on the main line.

 

[eoff]

It seems that any transport services operated by airport are expensive. There have Luton DART cable rail to link station and airport, a one-way adult ticket cost £4.90 for a 2,080 m journey!

For comparison I think both Amsterdam and Vienna train fares (Airport to Central station) are less than €5
Stockholm was expensive if I recall correctly.
Due to those comparisons I have only used the Heathrow express a few times, also because I might want less (or 0) changes.

 

[The exile]

For comparison I think both Amsterdam and Vienna train fares (Airport to Central station) are less than €5

The CAT (Vienna’s equivalent of HEx) is €24.90 return.

 

[Simon75]

Wasn't there a coach service before the Heathrow express started?

 

[Tetchytyke]

How on Earth is it that (without Heathrow Express) there are paths free on the fast lines East of Airport Junction, but not West of Airport Junction?

As @JN114 said, plus the fact that the speed differential between 110mph and 125 becomes more pronounced the further you go. The way the fast paths are set up the HEx pulls off at Airport junction with the 125mph up the back of it, and that 125mph train is then up the back of the 110mph Didcot semi-fast when that moves over to the slows at Slough.

It’s the same reason why it took a lot of careful planning to fit the LM/LNR fasts in on the WCML and also why they went to the expense of upgrading the 350s to run at 110mph to do it.

 

[norbitonflyer]

'More important' is rather subjective.

Depends how you read it. Paddington may be no less important than, say, Bond Street or Liverpool Street. But it is only one important place. The Elizabeth Line serves many important places.

"More important" places or more "important places"

 

[Taunton]

The CAT (Vienna’s equivalent of HEx) is €24.90 return.

It's a reasonable comparison. Any Austrian will tell you to use the regular-priced OBB service and not the CAT (City Air Train).

It does leave from a separate platform at the airport, with dedicated stock. It's infrequent in comparison, every 30 minutes, and it constantly describes its arrival station, Wien Mitte, as the "City Centre". It's not, it's outside The Ring, and it's not the main city Hauptbahnhof either. Looking in, it mostly seems to run near-empty, whereas the regular and more frequent OBB services from the adjacent platform are generally well filled.

 

[Mikey C]

I have done this before and I can say, much as people love to insist that Heathrow Express is pointless now that “the Elizabeth line takes nine minutes longer tops,” not stopping at Ealing, Southall, Hayes, etc. was very nice after already travelling over 100 miles. It would have just made everything seem way more of a slog, especially when I’d have had to trek downstairs too.

Perhaps HX should be marketed more at long distance travellers from GWR destinations (complete with more good value fares not much extra on an advance to Paddington), with the Elizabeth line targetting those from Central London?

I can see the logic of someone travelling into Paddington or staying at Paddington using the HEx. For GWR passengers it's a very short switch between their train and the HEx.

I can't imagine it's a very high percentage of airport passengers though, and Old Oak Common will remove much of this traffic anyway.

 

[nwales58]

At the outset Heathrow Express was aimed at taxi passengers rather than public transport users. The modelling will have long vanished but I think most of the users were assumed to change to taxis at Paddington (replacing taxi throughout) thus reducing user journey times and flows on the M4. It was therefore priced at taxi levels which paid for the investment.

25 years since opening, the capital cost is well-depreciated in Heathrow's accounts (though only 50% so far for tax). However Heathrow's objective now is likely to be to keep a 'premium' service as part of its 'we're expensive but high quality' image for non-European premium cabin users who are afraid of public transport.

Even with lower usage a well-differentiated expensive service, maybe less frequent, is likely to exist for another 25 years.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 28 Dec 2024 ==

The format of airport building a link with supposedly no public investment also applies to non-premium Orlyval (Eur 14.50 single, only recently has metro/tram competiton), Lyon (Rhonexpress tram Eur 16.70 single), Italian airports with forced-1st class supplements (Milan Malpensa Eur 13, Rome Fiumicino Eur 14 single though both slightly dodgeable).

 

[Snow1964]

However Heathrow's objective now is likely to be to keep a 'premium' service as part of its 'we're expensive but high quality' image for non-European premium cabin users who are afraid of public transport.

Both scheduled airlines, and trains are public transport.

 

[Krokodil]

Both scheduled airlines, and trains are public transport.

Yes, but you have to break Americans in gently

 

[Horizon22]

25 years since opening, the capital cost is well-depreciated in Heathrow's accounts (though only 50% so far for tax). However Heathrow's objective now is likely to be to keep a 'premium' service as part of its 'we're expensive but high quality' image for non-European premium cabin users who are afraid of public transport.

Maybe you could use that argument for when the 332s were running, but the HEX service now is mostly just repurposed 387s which are acceptable and I'm sure the luggage space is a plus but there's actually very little of the product now that seems "premium" or "high quality".

It depends on what you want as an end user; HEX serves Paddington. Elizabeth line also serves Paddington (further from street level) but also Ealing Broadway, Tottenham Court Road, Liverpool Street, Canary Wharf & Stratford to name but a few. Almost everyone is interchanging and on the Elizabeth line, unless you are going out to Reading and beyond, you are less likely to need to change twice for your end destination within London. Journey time needs to balanced with an interchange penalty which can be quite severe (indeed it is in transport modelling) when you have luggage.

 

[sh24]

The premium/high quality part is, IME, onboard space, power, good quality wifi, no lifts/escalators at Paddington.

I've recently restarted using the HEX as the Elizabeth line is a bit disappointing - slower, often crowded, lack of luggage space as well as being turfed out at Hayes a couple of times. With a Network card it's an acceptable price too.

 

[Andrew*Debbie]

Wasn't there a coach service before the Heathrow express started?

I think so. I remember getting a direct bus somewhere near Paddington. This was before we became UK residents.

Would have been early 1990s.

I still remember the hotel we stayed at. It was horrid. This was at the end of a holiday and we'd had fantastic accomidation until then

 

[tram21]

Wasn't there a coach service before the Heathrow express started?

There's still a coach!

This has been forgotten in this thread, but coaches are becoming increasingly popular for travel to London airports by budget travellers. While unlikely to be in direct competition with HeX, it could be, being a convenient, regular service which drops off in many places in London.

 

[Starmill]

Don't some of the airlines try to persuade you to buy a Heathrow Express ticket from them with your booking? That Heathrow Airport rewards programme also has a way to use their points for the train.