Heathrow

[tbtc]

Do you reckon there's any realistic chance of Heathrow having any rail service (apart from the existing Paddington trains, and CrossRail if/when built)?

There's a reference to Virgin wanting to run a Manchester to Heathrow service here: http://rail-news.com/2010/08/11/virgins-reaction-to-east-coast-main-line-pendolino-proposal/

Virgin Trains says it has no knowledge of plans to operate a Pendolino along the East Coast Main Line.

The train operator, which is seeking an extension to its West Coast franchise, says that it plans to run the first new Pendolino, due to arrive later this year, on Scotland to Birmingham services in an effort to relieve overcrowding on this popular route. Virgin also plan to extend the trains to London, which would restore some direct Milton Keynes to Scotland services and release a Super Voyager for use on a new service linking Manchester with Heathrow.

Anyone heard how this is planned to run? Manchester - WCML - Watford - (Willsden) GWML - Heathrow? One Voyager isn't going to be a frequent service, I didn't think diesels would be allowed inside Heathrow and I didn't think there were spare WCML paths?

 

[455driver]

A diesel train is not normally allowed into Heathrow so this is just a load of "spin"!

 

[jopsuk]

makes a bit more sense here

and free-up a Super Voyager to start a new service linking Manchester with Heathrow ( Hayes ).

Not sure what the exact route would be, but I guess the idea is that that would then offer a connection via Heathrow Connect,

At least I assume they mean Hayes & Harlington, not Hayes.

 

[imagination]

makes a bit more sense here

Not sure what the exact route would be, but I guess the idea is that that would then offer a connection via Heathrow Connect,

At least I assume they mean Hayes & Harlington, not Hayes.

Hayes and Harlington is often called just Hayes. Would be interesting though - the station has no terminus platform and the only way to change tracks anywhere near is on the heathrow line itself.

 

[The Planner]

I thought H&H had a bay platform ?? Number 5 ?? it can go wrong road from the Padd side of the goods loop into it and back out.

 

[Metroland]

There is a bay though and a reversible up platform with a recess into a loop

http://photos.signallingnotices.org.uk/photo.php?pc=77&p=IMG_7319.JPG

*Edit planner beat me to it*

 

[The Planner]

A service like that is going to go Wembley, round the back and under at Willesden to Number 7, up to Canal Wharf and Acton Wells and down to the GWML. WSMR diversion route basically.

 

[imagination]

I meant facing west with the no terminus platform bit - sorry I didnt make that clear.

and there's no way to get from the terminus platform onto the down relief without going up to the heathrow junction (and doing a crazy number of reversals). I believe the first one in the other direction is between Hanwell and West Ealing but i could be wrong there.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

A service like that is going to go Wembley, round the back and under at Willesden to Number 7, up to Canal Wharf and Acton Wells and down to the GWML. WSMR diversion route basically.

I didn't even think of that...

 

[Metroland]

You can definitely go in and out of the bay and up platform at Hayes no problem. If it wasn't for a gap of a couple of miles of OHL, you could in theory run electric trains (I'd say pendos but forget what the length of the platforms is at Heathrow) all the way from Picadilly into the airport.

Also you could run down the MML/ECML into Heathrow as well. All these lines are connected up via the north London line and other links.

 

[Matt Taylor]

I'm not sure Hayes Bay platform is sufficiently clear of rubbish to even consider a train service.

http://matthew-taylor.fotopic.net/p42702084.html

 

[The Planner]

If Virgin are sufficiently determined to do it, they would fork out to clean it up.

 

[Welshman]

What would be the point, anyway?
1 Super Voyager is only going to be able to provide 3 or 4 departures a day, and passengers won't sit around Heathrow for a few hours, when there are so many existing and frequent links into central London and 3 trains an hour from Euston to Manchester. And even if the timings were convenient, by the time you've changed at Hayes and meandered round West London, it would probably be quicker to go via Euston instead.

 

[kestrel]

We use hayes bay most days (when there's disruption) nowt wrong with it

The UR is bi-dir to AJ so you could in theory run out into Hayes loop change ends and back out down the UR pick up pax on P4 and off you go, xover to DR at AJ to head west

But you'll struggle to get paths and as previously said what is the point the exisiting services work fine.

 

[imagination]

What would be the point, anyway?
1 Super Voyager is only going to be able to provide 3 or 4 departures a day, and passengers won't sit around Heathrow for a few hours, when there are so many existing and frequent links into central London and 3 trains an hour from Euston to Manchester. And even if the timings were convenient, by the time you've changed at Hayes and meandered round West London, it would probably be quicker to go via Euston instead.

Really?

Bear in mind that Euston station is not easily accessible from Paddington. And taking heavy luggage up the steps at Euston Square is not easy. I think I'd rather get on the train at Hayes even if it is a bit slower (which seems unlikely to me).

 

[The Planner]

The crawl from Wembley around Willesden and Acton is far from quick, there is very little above 20/30mph.

 

[alexjames]

Is that why the MKC to Clapham trains are so painfully slow the moment they pull off the WCML? I've never been on one going faster than 15mph on that stretch.

Any chance of it ever being speeded up? An average of 25mph would be a relative treat.

 

[Geezertronic]

Out of pure interest, I looked on TravelLine and the direct Southern trains between Milton Keynes Central and Clapham Junction are only a minute or two minutes quicker than going into Euston and back out via Victoria

 

[tbtc]

Out of pure interest, I looked on TravelLine and the direct Southern trains between Milton Keynes Central and Clapham Junction are only a minute or two minutes quicker than going into Euston and back out via Victoria

That's pretty depressing, especially since trains to/from the main terminals will obviously be a lot busier, it gives TOCs little incentive to run services "around" London (therefore serving Heathrow etc) rather than right through the middle of it (at least Thameslink/ Crossrail will go through the middle)

 

[swt_passenger]

Is that why the MKC to Clapham trains are so painfully slow the moment they pull off the WCML? I've never been on one going faster than 15mph on that stretch.

Any chance of it ever being speeded up? An average of 25mph would be a relative treat.

That slow crawl between the WCML and the WLL (and sometimes I've stopped for 5 mins without losing timetabled stops) is apparently because the WC and WLL paths couldn't be connected any better.

Basically the same problem that has existed with any number of 'interregional services', the timetable has to fit in with everything else around about all the way from Milton Keynes to East Croydon.

 

[the sniper]

Wasn't there talk of Virgin buying an extra pantograph enhanced carriage for each of their Voyagers if they got their franchise extended, so after various modifications, they could run their Voyagers off the OHL juice where available? That would enable the Voyagers to run straight into Heathrow, if that idea hasn't been dropped.

 

[broadbander]

Long time lurker, first time poster here...

Would it be beyond the realms of possibility that Virgin might run their Manchester - Heathrow (Hayles) service from Manchester Airport in competition with British Airways and bmi who fly between the two airports?

 

[tbtc]

Would it be beyond the realms of possibility that Virgin might run their Manchester - Heathrow (Hayles) service from Manchester Airport in competition with British Airways and bmi who fly between the two airports?

Wouldn't be a bad idea; the transatlantic destinations on offer might attract a few from "down south" to use Manchester Airport (in the way that a surprising number of people from Scotland use Manchester Airport, despite Glasgow/ Edinburgh having big airports)

 

[MidnightFlyer]

There is a bay though and a reversible up platform with a recess into a loop

http://photos.signallingnotices.org.uk/photo.php?pc=77&p=IMG_7319.JPG



*Edit planner beat me to it*

Where's that photo from?
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Is that why the MKC to Clapham trains are so painfully slow the moment they pull off the WCML? I've never been on one going faster than 15mph on that stretch.

Any chance of it ever being speeded up? An average of 25mph would be a relative treat.

Back in the 70s, there was 2 trains a day Kenny O-Clapham Jn, so anythings got to be an improvement on that. What speed does the Keny-Wandsworth pariamentry service manage?

 

[The Planner]

Is that why the MKC to Clapham trains are so painfully slow the moment they pull off the WCML? I've never been on one going faster than 15mph on that stretch.

Any chance of it ever being speeded up? An average of 25mph would be a relative treat.

Thats Willesden North and West London Junction, the Virgins would be using a different route to that. The problem you have there is approach control, slow speed junction and the fact everything is on a bit of a knife edge timetable wise. Its a right swine to path across the fasts as you will have a Pendo coming up your backside at 110mph and another coming at you at 100mph. It only needs something to be a couple of minutes off and you'll be held for a Pendo. The 15mph speed limit is painful though, but there must be some reason why its like that.

 

[the sniper]

Where's that photo from?

He posted the link below the photo.

 

[LE Greys]

I think the only realistic prospect of a service into Heathrow from the north is an extension of XC's Reading terminators. That was more likely under Virgin than Arriva. However, I'm not sure how they might get there. Even a west-south curve at Airport Junction would be difficult. I think I prefer the ideas some people have come up with of using the old Staines West line with a new curve just east of the M25. That currently terminates at Colnbrook, so it needs a lot of work to bring it up to spec, dig a tunnel under the M4 and presumably follow the M25. It would be useful as part of Airtrack, however, so I wouldn't write it off just yet.

 

[kestrel]

Long time lurker, first time poster here...

Would it be beyond the realms of possibility that Virgin might run their Manchester - Heathrow (Hayles) service from Manchester Airport in competition with British Airways and bmi who fly between the two airports?

There is no competition with the airlines on that route, the railways won that one years ago and nailed it witht the enhanced timetable a few yrs back, thats why theres no justification for a third runway, the only competition is the edi/glas but even that is falling to the railways now

 

[MidnightFlyer]

He posted the link below the photo.

i\ndeed he did. lol thanks