How about posters advertising number of trains delayed by passengers

[infobleep]

At South West Trains stations they have posters asking people not to run and listing the number of accidents per year due to running.

They also have posters stating doors will closed 30 seconds prior to departure. Not to mention the ones listing performance statistics of South West Trains.

Well how about a poster listing the number of trains delayed by passengers in the last year to encourage passengers to get a move on. Surely they would pay as much attention to such posters as the don't run posters. If that's not much, why bother with the don't run posters?

The other evening I was on a London Overground train, admitted not South West Trains, at West Brompton and the driver or guard came on to say can the passenger who thinks It fine to talk and delay all the passenger's do so in his own time. I assume he was keeping the door from being set to close.

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[NSEFAN]

The other evening I was on a London Overground train, admitted not South West Trains, at West Brompton and the driver or guard came on to say can the passenger who thinks It fine to talk and delay all the passenger's do so in his own time. I assume he was keeping the door from being set to close.

I've heard similar announcements on the Underground. As an example, a Central line train I was on had trouble with the doors due to someone holding them open for someone else. Upon departure the driver gave a lecture over the tannoy about why holding the doors is bad and will ultimately cause problems for every passenger on this packed train!

The driver was being a bit condescending in his tone, but on the whole I think it was justified.

 

[feline1]

Yeah, I think posters like that would quite accurately reflect the contempt for passengers that many ToC staff have.

 

[Flamingo]

Yeah, I think posters like that would quite accurately reflect the contempt for passengers that many ToC staff have.

"I'm the customer here, are you trying to tell me it's MY fault?"
"Of course not sir, I'm just explaining to you that it's not ours"

 

[feline1]

"I'm the customer here, are you trying to tell me it's MY fault?"
"Of course not sir, I'm just explaining to you that it's not ours"

Could you make me a Waldorf salad...?

 

[scotsman]

Probably not a good idea. Not good PR to blame your customers for issues that they perceive to be the TOC's - even if they do cause them.

 

[Tomnick]

It perhaps wouldn't be the best PR to outright blame passengers, but trying to encourage them to help where possible (using all the doors instead of just the one, shutting slam doors behind them and so on) would benefit everyone - maybe with an illustration of the potential reactionary delays from just a couple of minutes overtime at a station.

 

[feline1]

How about if ToC's employed people to stand on the platform, whose job it was to see if everyone was getting on the train properly and it was safe for it to leave?

 

[Aictos]

How about if ToC's employed people to stand on the platform, whose job it was to see if everyone was getting on the train properly and it was safe for it to leave?

You could have a member of staff standing by every single door with banners saying there's more then one door and still have people wanting to use one door :roll:

 

[transmanche]

You could have a member of staff standing by every single door with banners saying there's more then one door and still have people wanting to use one door :roll:

That's not surprising when the railway gives inconsistent messages about how long before departure the doors will be closed.

As the OP mentioned, SWT say 30 seconds. I've seen a variety of other times used - up to two minutes. So no wonder that people 'follow the herd' and all aim for the nearest open door.

 

[jon0844]

The driver was being a bit condescending in his tone, but on the whole I think it was justified.

I don't think I've ever heard a message from the driver about people who hold open the doors that doesn't sound like s/he is really angry. I've also heard them repeat their demand for someone to stand clear when ignored.

And I would be angry too.

Whether as a driver, or passenger, there's every reason to get annoyed when someone potentially delays the train (and others behind it, with all the knock on effects) or even potentially takes the train out of service. I've been on trains that have had the driver have to come out to 'fix' the door, but luckily never one actually taken out of service.

I think in virtually every case of someone doing it, or even just misjudging their entry when the doors are closing (such that something gets stuck or they get on when the doors re-open but there was no room, so the doors can't now close properly) it's been where another train will be along in a matter of minutes.

 

[feline1]

You could have a member of staff standing by every single door with banners saying there's more then one door and still have people wanting to use one door :roll:

Well yes, and if everyone's trying to use one door, that's going to make it jolly difficult for a staff member to work out where to stand to advise them all. I mean, my gosh, they're all at one place! How on earth is he going to find them all? How will they hear him?

 

[jon0844]

Probably not a good idea. Not good PR to blame your customers for issues that they perceive to be the TOC's - even if they do cause them.

Posters revealing delays by passengers wouldn't upset me one bit or be seen by myself as bad PR - quite the opposite.

I'd be happy to see them, and hope it might do something to stop people doing those things. Just as it's fine to reveal how many people were prosecuted (in court, not a PF or out of court settlement*) for fare evasion, and - heck - why not name and shame them too!

* This might just stop TOCs going for out of court settlements for easy money, while not properly punishing those that deserve to be punished.

 

[BestWestern]

That's not surprising when the railway gives inconsistent messages about how long before departure the doors will be closed.

As the OP mentioned, SWT say 30 seconds. I've seen a variety of other times used - up to two minutes. So no wonder that people 'follow the herd' and all aim for the nearest open door.

That's a fair point. I agree with earlier posters that one of the most effective methods here is to make an announcement after deaparting, I've done it many times. Sometimes after mass grouping around one door, to advise it reduces delays if every door is used, and sometimes aimed at one individial who has forced their way on against closing doors. I've also made my way through a train to speak to an 'offender' directly. Usually resulting in a withered apology. Simply educating those who are obviously unaware, for their own safety as well as for the benefit of everybody else.

 

[transmanche]

Whether as a driver, or passenger, there's every reason to get annoyed when someone potentially delays the train (and others behind it, with all the knock on effects) or even potentially takes the train out of service. I've been on trains that have had the driver have to come out to 'fix' the door, but luckily never one actually taken out of service

I think T&W Metro have started to list door obstruction incidents in their four-weekly performance posters.

Now that the Metrocars are getting on a bit, door faults seem to be increasing. So T&W Metro have prosecuted a number of passengers who have obstructed doors, leading to a train being taken out of service. One person had to pay over £500 in fines/costs/victim surcharge - but other prosecutions have resulted in penalties in the mid £100s.

(I really wish they'd prosecute people who don't let other passengers off the train before they try to board!)

 

[edwin_m]

ATW (I think) has a poster campaign a couple of years back advising passengers on how to behave safely on trains. TfL is running some poems to encourage good behavior, and FCC produced that guide on how to use trains. So campaigns to educate passengers seem to be far from dead.

 

[Tomnick]

How about if ToC's employed people to stand on the platform, whose job it was to see if everyone was getting on the train properly and it was safe for it to leave?

The sort of thing that guards and platform staff can do, to assist passengers and reduce dwell times? Sounds good to me!

 

[Aictos]

Well yes, and if everyone's trying to use one door, that's going to make it jolly difficult for a staff member to work out where to stand to advise them all. I mean, my gosh, they're all at one place! How on earth is he going to find them all? How will they hear him?

I was being sarcastic, I've seen one passenger miss a train because they walked past 5 doors all open as they wanted to get on a specific door :roll:

I've seen another passenger walk slowly to a specific door ignoring the 11 other doors then as the doors had closed trying to get on...

I just think your idea is idiotic and simply wouldn't work for the simple reason like I said it don't matter how many doors there are on a train people will still act like sheep and go for the single door every time and I wonder why I'm so cynical at times....

 

[Tomnick]

What's so idiotic about providing platform staff at busy stations and guards on trains?

 

[feline1]

What's so idiotic about providing platform staff at busy stations and guards on trains?

Well I was *actually* referring to the staff already on the platform (is "dispatchers" their formal job title?) - who usually seem to have zero people skills and do their best to avoid any interaction with passengers at all.

 

[J123]

I think there should be queue lines painted on the platforms that lead to where the doors will land. That should in theory make station stops more efficient. It seems to work really well in Japan.

Not that any British person would pay attention to them.

 

[Clip]

That's not surprising when the railway gives inconsistent messages about how long before departure the doors will be closed.

As the OP mentioned, SWT say 30 seconds. I've seen a variety of other times used - up to two minutes. So no wonder that people 'follow the herd' and all aim for the nearest open door.

Thats a fair point but I think its to do with uniformity. SWT doesnt have uniformity in its train lengths like Virgin 7 EC do(yes pedants I know they fluctuate a little but not as much as SWT or other south commuter TOCS)

So for SWT to say 30 mins for all services whether they are 4 or 12 car trains means everyone on every service knows this. Same for the EC/WC giving 2 mins.

Also im not sure how long the dispatch procedure is for SWT at say Waterloo compared to EC/WC mind you I havent done that for a few years either.

 

[transmanche]

I think there should be queue lines painted on the platforms that lead to where the doors will land. That should in theory make station stops more efficient. It seems to work really well in Japan.

Not that any British person would pay attention to them.

Nice orderly rush hour queue at Canary Wharf tube station - and without even needing any queue lines painted on the platform! (And the last time I checked, Canary Wharf was still in Britain...)

 

[Aictos]

What's so idiotic about providing platform staff at busy stations and guards on trains?

Because my learnt friend, you can make all the announcements in the world to ask people to use all available doors and they won't because they prefer to use a single door even if it's safer to provide staff to encourage people to use all available doors to control overcrowding.

I'm just being realistic, you should have staff on trains and at stations but there's only so much they can do, a lot of it is to do with the mindset that people have that they MUST and can ONLY board their train at a specific door :roll:

Yes part of the blame is down to TOCs starting the dispatch at various times but that should not impact on the ability of people to see a train and realise it does actually have more then one door

Well I was *actually* referring to the staff already on the platform (is "dispatchers" their formal job title?) - who usually seem to have zero people skills and do their best to avoid any interaction with passengers at all.

I think that's uncalled for, passengers can tend to have no people skills and can be rude too who expect said dispatchers to have a crystal ball to predict exactly what's happening seconds after disruption has happened without allowing them to first find out what has happened that said I'm sure it's only a minority who do that and as such it's only a minority who do what you claim they do which is why I think you're bang out of order for stating that claim - I was in the midst of updating a engineering poster in the booking hall one day when a train unexpectly terminated as disruption had just started, yet I'm expected to know exactly why, when and where it is before I even get a chance to find out myself what the problem is and what is happening :roll:

 

[overtonchris]

I think T&W Metro have started to list door obstruction incidents in their four-weekly performance posters.

Now that the Metrocars are getting on a bit, door faults seem to be increasing. So T&W Metro have prosecuted a number of passengers who have obstructed doors, leading to a train being taken out of service. One person had to pay over £500 in fines/costs/victim surcharge - but other prosecutions have resulted in penalties in the mid £100s.

(I really wish they'd prosecute people who don't let other passengers off the train before they try to board!)

Last sentence.....I'm not too sure about prosecuting the "bargers" pushing on the train (and subsequently leaving less immediate space if the ignorant idiots think about it...)...but echo your sentiment.

Also the Sheep Index that applies to hopping on a train or plane (or bus, I guess - but I try to avoid those!).....is quite stunning at times. It appears to be panic- time even (especially?) at rush hour, when I guess that most passengers do the journey every working day and insist on making life more difficult for themselves and others (including the poor train train dispatcher!!). With a bit of brain-engagement surely things wouldn't be that hard...then there's courtesy...

As for notices...I think why not?....BUT how many Oiks ignore the Penalty Fare The ones....Mmmm

 

[feline1]

I think that's uncalled for, passengers can tend to have no people skills and can be rude too who expect said dispatchers to have a crystal ball to predict exactly what's happening seconds after disruption has happened without allowing them to first find out what has happened that said I'm sure it's only a minority who do that and as such it's only a minority who do what you claim they do which is why I think you're bang out of order for stating that claim - I was in the midst of updating a engineering poster in the booking hall one day when a train unexpectly terminated as disruption had just started, yet I'm expected to know exactly why, when and where it is before I even get a chance to find out myself what the problem is and what is happening :roll:

Yes, if only someone would invent mobile communications! But I'm afraid the mobile telephone isn't due to be invented until 2024 so we'll just have to be patient /shrugs/

 

[Tomnick]

I gather that mobile communication technology is already with us, and in regular use - but that doesn't make it much easier to convey details of a change to the service before Control are really sure themselves!

 

[feline1]

I gather that mobile communication technology is already with us, and in regular use - but that doesn't make it much easier to convey details of a change to the service before Control are really sure themselves!

In that case, "Control" may not be the most apt name for them.

 

[infobleep]

The problem with mobiles is the lack of mobile coverage at stations. Clapham Junction is a prime example on 02 at least. It seems to be better in Europe or certainly in Antwerp and Paris where I was recently. Saying that the announcements at Antwerp didn't explain why my train was 28 minutes and then suddenly after 28 minutes, suddenly 57 minutes late.

I think over here you are move likely to know why an hour later.

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[MidnightFlyer]

I've heard similar announcements on the Underground. As an example, a Central line train I was on had trouble with the doors due to someone holding them open for someone else. Upon departure the driver gave a lecture over the tannoy about why holding the doors is bad and will ultimately cause problems for every passenger on this packed train!

The driver was being a bit condescending in his tone, but on the whole I think it was justified.

Indeed. I was once on a northbound Northern line service at Tottenham Court Road, and the driver must have tried three or four times to close the doors, but someone / something somewhere was blocking it. It led to a heated announcement telling us to mind the doors, and when he had successfully closed them he came back on to say (rather exasperatedly) 'See, not that hard is it! On we go...'