As above,
Is there some element for the numeric value asigned to a class, is it availiablity or something else? This difinately feels like the place to ask
Regards Kard
Because they are all convertible to dual as built, whether fitted or not. 387s are all dual voltage as delivered.Why are 375/376/377/387’s in the 300’s? (AC or dual voltage EMU’s)
700 series is split into two sub ranges:
700-749, are any type of AC, dual or DC EMUs, and are not just for those units based on Desiro City. (A long gone Thameslink staff member proposed here that 70x was reserved for Thameslink style units but he was quite wrong when he first said it.)
Eg the 701 is a Bombardier Aventra...
750-799 are bimodes, diesel/EMU. Eg the 769 conversions.
800s will not be just for Hitachi, although they’re the only present members, they are defined as any high speed fixed formation sets, and can be any power type, DMU, EMU or bimode.
700 series is split into two sub ranges:
700-749, are any type of AC, dual or DC EMUs, and are not just for those units based on Desiro City. (A long gone Thameslink staff member proposed here that 70x was reserved for Thameslink style units but he was quite wrong when he first said it.)
Eg the 701 is a Bombardier Aventra...
750-799 are bimodes, diesel/EMU. Eg the 769 conversions.
800s will not be just for Hitachi, although they’re the only present members, they are defined as any high speed fixed formation sets, and can be any power type, DMU, EMU or bimode.
So, will the Class 390 be reclassified as 890?
Not as far as I can see. GA Norwich services are going to be 720, replacing 90s and Mk3 coaches. I read the range as any EMU except high speed, where high speed is 125 mph.I thought there was something more to it than purely being 700 for Desiro City and 800 for IETs.
So the is 700 series for primarily suburban units?
Agree, but even then it doesn’t have to be used, hence brand new 345s 331s etc since the new ranges were added. The ranges 7xx and 8xx just gave more headroom, neither seem compulsory.I think it's just for new-build units.
Not as far as I can see. GA Norwich services are going to be 720, replacing 90s and Mk3 coaches. I read the range as any EMU except high speed, where high speed is 125 mph.
The cutoff figure for “high speed” is above 190 km/h, so 8xx will (or can?) include any future 125 mph max units.Right so - 7xx are under 125mph; 8xx 125mph+?
Agree, but even then it doesn’t have to be used, hence brand new 345s 331s etc since the new ranges were added. The ranges 7xx and 8xx just gave more headroom, neither seem compulsory.
The cutoff figure for “high speed” is above 190 km/h, so 8xx will (or can?) include any future 125 mph max units.
The latest reference is here, by the way:
https://www.rssb.co.uk/rgs/standards/RIS-2453-RST Iss 1.pdf
Of course. I’ve also always reckoned the SWT Desiros should have been in the 3xx range as well, they are just as easily convertible to dual voltage as any Electrostar...In other words, as ever, there are exceptions to the rules!
I think it might be a TSI crash worthiness boundary. But then again, the TPE new 397s are supposed to be 125 mph units, so if the new definitions were that specific shouldn’t they be 8xx?190km/h seems a bit of a strange figure.
Given the various examples above, I think we have established that the UK numbering system is a shambolic mess. There are still exceptions and differences even after the supposed new standards were implemented, and in places the RSSB is inconsistent with the application of numbers against its own standards (for example the EVNs for HST power cars are not consistent with what is stated in the document swt_passenger linked to above).
Agreed - the French system is worse. But if I compare it to the Swiss system...........True that the sequence of the Numbering in the 7’ series is very odd, but overall the TOPS system is pretty good and neatly organised. If you want to compare with the french system, Bon courage...
Of course. I’ve also always reckoned the SWT Desiros should have been in the 3xx range as well, they are just as easily convertible to dual voltage as any Electrostar...
I think it might be a TSI crash worthiness boundary. But then again, the TPE new 397s are supposed to be 125 mph units, so if the new definitions were that specific shouldn’t they be 8xx?
Of course. I’ve also always reckoned the SWT Desiros should have been in the 3xx range as well, they are just as easily convertible to dual voltage as any Electrostar...
Think the 444s have a well for a potential pantograph on one of the intermediate cars
Not really. New trains being in 7xx and 8xx is a choice. Northern have new trains in the 3xx range, for example. Although it is a bit pointless having 5xx almost empty (and the new trains that should be in there aren't).Think the 444s have a well for a potential pantograph on one of the intermediate cars
Another 'exception' to the rules?
Any idea why are there no classes numbered in the 600s?
The 6xx range is for DMUs but nobody's used it yet. Then again you might have already known that.Any idea why are there no classes numbered in the 600s?
The way I have interpreted the situation with the SWR desiro's is that because none of them were built specifically as DV units (or at least as the original order had them down as) they were numbered in the 4xx range. With the 375's, the first batch was dual voltage, and so got the 3xx number, and as the subsequent single voltage trains were in effect the 'same train' as far as training and competencies go, they kept the 375 designation. with the Desiro's, I imagine the variation order to make the 350's was the trigger to re-assign the range. I imagine if SWR had a batch ordered as Dual voltage from new, we would have seen the whole SWR fleet as a 3xx fleet in the same way as the Electrostars are treated now.
Not really. New trains being in 7xx and 8xx is a choice. Northern have new trains in the 3xx range, for example. Although it is a bit pointless having 5xx almost empty (and the new trains that should be in there aren't).
It does seem that specific numbers can be grabbed at random by those might see a marketing advantage in them. This is what makes a mockery of the system.Who makes the choice though? Can ROSCOs (or indeed TOCs), request a number within a certain range?