How common are dividing trains in the UK?

[CarrotPie]

Don’t some of the SWR west of England services split 3 ways at Salisbury? 3 to Exeter, 3 to Yeovil via Westbury and 3 to form a portion of an up train?

The 3 that form an up train used to sometimes form one to Bristol too!

 

[dk1]

Kings Cross to Cambridge and some then have a portion forward to Ely/Kings Lynn and vice versa.

That all stopped a few years ago.

For most of the country & TOCs portion working is far too much of a performance nightmare.

 

[70014IronDuke]

I didn't even know these existed until a couple of months ago when I was walking through Waterloo station and heard the automated voice talking about how a train was going to divide and which carriages you should sit in for which destinations. I forgot about this till now, but it really intrigued me. Are they common anywhere else in the UK other than on the SWML? I've never heard of them from other operators across the country before.

I suspect that if you google "Atlantic Coast Express" (historical one, up to summer 1964), in winter it divided into ... I guess about 5 - 6 portions - others may know exactly. Many would have been one carriage portions!

 

[Statto]

AWC Euston - North Wales has one a day each way that joins, splits at Chester, with one portion going to, & from Wrexham General, the other portion goes to, & from Holyhead

Back in the day, a few West Midlands - Scotland services used to split at Carstairs Junction, one portion going to Glasgow Central the other Edinburgh

 

[ollie_hunt1660]

SWR runs Basingstoke/Alton services on weekends that divide at Woking

 

[Kite159]

It’s not uncommon on London Waterloo to Exeter services for there two be two splits en route, with the initial 8/9-carriage service dropping some at Salisbury and another set at Yeovil Junction, leaving the final 3 carriages to proceed to Exeter.

19:20 Waterloo to Exeter is one of those double splits. Rear unit off at Salisbury, middle unit off at Yeovil with only the front unit to Exeter.

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Other SWR services which split along the way is Sundays the Waterloo - Alton/Basingstoke stoppers split at Woking & Waterloo - Poole/Portsmouth split at Eastleigh [although that one isn't all day as later in the afternoon those services don't split]

Waterloo - Weymouth splitting at Bournemouth where sometimes the rear portion carries on to Poole as the stopper allowing the front 5 coaches to run fast to Poole then stations to Weymouth. At peak times they split at Southampton with the front 5 going fast towards Bournemouth and rear 5 being stoppers/semi-fasts to Poole.

Southern also split at Barnham on Sundays I believe with a Victoria - Portsmouth train. Front unit to Portsmouth, rear unit(s) to Bognor.

 

[hexagon789]

Don’t some of the SWR west of England services split 3 ways at Salisbury? 3 to Exeter, 3 to Yeovil via Westbury and 3 to form a portion of an up train?

No idea, it's outside my area and sphere of knowledge but the explanation you give seems quite logical.

 

[rg177]

At one time there used to be a Southern service in the evening peak from Victoria to Horsham, Tonbridge and Reigate - all three bits divided at Redhill.

 

[AndyPJG]

Don’t some of the SWR west of England services split 3 ways at Salisbury? 3 to Exeter, 3 to Yeovil via Westbury and 3 to form a portion of an up train?

Few years back at Salisbury, 159x3, front unit to Exeter SD, middle to Bristol TM (me), raer unit to depot/or attach to up train to Waterloo. Don't know if still thus post Covid.

 

[aem7ac]

Aren't there some ScotRail dividing trains? I think I saw one while browsing through RTT a while ago trying to see out of curiosity how far north you can get from London using only trains that have headcodes starting with 2 in one day.

 

[Gaelan]

...which is a 3-way split! This must be the only example of a 3-way split in the UK surely?

It's also a split at a non-passenger station, which causes no end of trouble for "train status" apps that assume they only need to show passenger stations. (And the fact that it's a 3-way split doesn't help things either…)

 

[PaulJ]

Some SE services still spilt on the down at Ashford, with one portion terminating and the other continuing to Dover Priory.

 

[philjo]

That all stopped a few years ago.

There are still a few peak services which split at Cambridge. E.g. the 1739 from Kings Cross is 12 coaches Tuesdays, Wednesdays and Thursdays with front 8 coaches going to Kings Lynn and rear 4 terminating at Cambridge.
I assume the morning equivalents into London join to form 12 coaches at Cambridge.

 

[dk1]

There are still a few peak services which split at Cambridge. E.g. the 1739 from Kings Cross is 12 coaches Tuesdays, Wednesdays and Thursdays with front 8 coaches going to Kings Lynn and rear 4 terminating at Cambridge.
I assume the morning equivalents into London join to form 12 coaches at Cambridge.

Thanks for that. It’s very rare indeed nowadays to see that happening for me.

Used to really piddle me off when the GN (& sometimes WA) arrived only to fart around splitting THEN calling Waterbeach even though my Norwich was first stop Ely. After punters transferred I could be miles away before they finally got moving.

 

[iphone76]

There used to be an 8 car 321 from Liverpool Street to Southminster which split at Wickford with the front 4 cars continuing to Southminster and the rear 4 shunting into the bay platform to form one of the Wickford to Southminster shuttle services.

Post covid, this now runs empty to Wickford as a 5 car 720 and then forms the 0816 to Southminster.

 

[Llanigraham]

The TfW services from Birmingham International that divide at Machynlleth into Aberystwyth and Pwllheli portions (mentioned in post 4), are made more confusing by the reversal at Shrewsbury. Thus the front two coaches when boarding east of Shrewsbury become the rear two coaches by the time the train is divided. Fortunately there is plenty of time for passengers to change units if necessary between Shrewsbury and Mach.

And sometimes a 2 x 2car from Brum to the Coast splits at Shrewsbury so that one half then goes to North Wales

 

[Snow1964]

Back in 1970s and 1980s were common in Southern England

Some split at Ascot for Guildford and Reading

I am sure I have been on trains that split or joined at Faversham, Barnham, Worthing, Lewes, Ashford (Kent), Woking and possibly others

 

[A S Leib]

Have there ever been dividing trains in Northern Ireland? When was the last one, if so?

 

[hexagon789]

Aren't there some ScotRail dividing trains? I think I saw one while browsing through RTT a while ago trying to see out of curiosity how far north you can get from London using only trains that have headcodes starting with 2 in one day.

Yes. See post #3

 

[Wilts Wanderer]

If the OP really wants their mind blown, they should look up ‘GWR Slip Coaches’

 

[hexagon789]

Have there ever been dividing trains in Northern Ireland? When was the last one, if so?

Yes, 1980s possibly later.

There were the odd Belfast - Londonderry / Portrush dividing at Coleraine at some point. When the Derry line was the domain of the 80 Class.

I think they tended to be weekends (maybe Sundays) rather than during the week.

 

[vectra33]

In the 1970s I sometimes travelled on a train that had three portions: Liverpool-Glasgow, Manchester-Glasgow and Manchester-Edinburgh. Combined at Preston and divided at Carstairs.

I travelled on that service a lot in the 70s, If i remember correctly it was Liverpool-Preston which then joined the Manchester to Preston, the 2 diesels were removed and an electric loco added, At Carstairs the rear half of the train was detached , and hauled backwards to Edinburgh by a 47, the front portion continued to Glasgow with the electric loco. The consist was always IIRC, 5 coaches and buffet from Manchester, 5 coaches ex Liverpool , making 11 coaches in all. The service finished in the early 80s when it was combined with the Harwich Boat train from manchester, running Glasgow-Harwich via Preston, Bolton, Sheffield.

 

[Hadders]

The Cambridge dividers were often amusing to watch.

Front 4 carriages to Kings Lynn, rear 4 carriages return to Kings Cross. The look of panic on peoples faces rushing up and down the platform, getting their Kings mixed up....

 

[dk1]

Anglia Railways & NXEA after them still operated a daily Lowestoft/Yarmouth-Liverpool St. The former also operated Liverpool St to Yarmouth, Lowestoft & Bury St Edmunds services that divided at Ipswich.

 

[trebor79]

There are still a few peak services which split at Cambridge. E.g. the 1739 from Kings Cross is 12 coaches Tuesdays, Wednesdays and Thursdays with front 8 coaches going to Kings Lynn and rear 4 terminating at Cambridge.
I assume the morning equivalents into London join to form 12 coaches at Cambridge.

Thanks for that. It’s very rare indeed nowadays to see that happening for me.

Phew! Thought I'd gone mad, I didn't think it was that long since it's been on a service that joined at Cambridge.

 

[kaysha]

Aren't there some ScotRail dividing trains? I think I saw one while browsing through RTT a while ago trying to see out of curiosity how far north you can get from London using only trains that have headcodes starting with 2 in one day

A few years back probably about 2017/18. I had a meeting in Ayr. As I had time to spare I decided to go the scenic route via Kilmarnock. It split there with 1 portion going on to Stranraer and the other half returning to Glasgow. I remember this well as I was 30 seconds away of returning back to whence I came!!

 

[Whistler40145]

Trains used to split at Georgemas Junction with a portion for Wick and Thurso, I believe this no longer happens

 

[hexagon789]

I travelled on that service a lot in the 70s, If i remember correctly it was Liverpool-Preston which then joined the Manchester to Preston, the 2 diesels were removed and an electric loco added, At Carstairs the rear half of the train was detached , and hauled backwards to Edinburgh by a 47, the front portion continued to Glasgow with the electric loco. The consist was always IIRC, 5 coaches and buffet from Manchester, 5 coaches ex Liverpool , making 11 coaches in all. The service finished in the early 80s when it was combined with the Harwich Boat train from manchester, running Glasgow-Harwich via Preston, Bolton, Sheffield.

There were 4 Liverpool/Manchester to Glasgow/Edinburgh and 4 Birmingham (/Bristol) to Glasgow/Edinburgh. Having been increased from 2 and 1 respectively at electrification. Eventually some workings ran beyond Edinburgh to Dundee, Aberdeen, Elgin or Inverness. The Bristol working eventually started back/extended to Penzance.

The portion working lasted until splitting ended at the end of the 1980s, with much simplification of routes and shorter trains but greater frequency over core sections of line.

 

[800301]

Gwr have a service to Newbury and Newbury https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/service/gb-nr:G82518/2024-01-27/detailed#allox_id=0

There is also the odd Didcot Parkway and Newbury services

 

[fkofilee]

Southern used to do HHE splits for Littlehampton and Eastbourne before a timetable change made them run complete sets instead.