How frequent are drug + alcohol tests for drivers?

[ALPAL]

Hi!

I've read a fair few threads on this to try and understand more but most are from a standpoint of a druggie asking how to fool tests etc so receive a deservedly harsh response.

To make this clear, I've never touched drugs and do not drink, so have nothing to hide. I'm asking from a standpoint of the weird amount of anxiety controlled drugs sampling gives me, it's so bad for me I'd pay good money to have a blood/saliva/hair test done instead to prove my innocence. This comes from the overly invasive experiences I've had with foreign companies that don't have a caring bone in their bodies.

So I'm looking for your honest experience on testing frequency and how it's done, hopefully it will alleviate my anxieties a bit.

Cheers!

 

[Horizon22]

Well you will of course have one every time you have a safety-critical medical. Random drugs testing is well...random. I have never known it happen to anyone, anywhere I've worked over several years. There is also "for cause" drugs screening after an incident or someone suspects you to be under the influence of drugs/alcohol. I have seen this happen before.

If one is required, it will go through the company's authorised supplier and will be done by the book. There won't be any "foreign companies without a caring bone" but if you are a regular employee doing nothing out of the ordinary, its highly unlikely you'd ever run into this outside your scheduled mandatory medicals, of which there will be <1 a year (and probably an ever lower frequency than that)

 

[LCC106]

We have had several random tests at our TOC, some resulting in employee dismissal. There is a set number of tests that have to be done, including both safety critical and non-safety critical staff. It is a urine sample. You tell them any medication you are on beforehand and watch them seal the sample in front of you. Very non-invasive. Just a bit bizarre that they then allow you to continue safety critical work before they get the results. 99% of the time the results will be negative but there have been instances as I mentioned earlier where this hasn’t been the case.

 

[43066]

Well you will of course have one every time you have a safety-critical medical. Random drugs testing is well...random. I have never known it happen to anyone, anywhere I've worked over several years. There is also "for cause" drugs screening after an incident or someone suspects you to be under the influence of drugs/alcohol. I have seen this happen before.

Indeed.

It does happen, albeit rare. I’ve been properly randomly tested once in almost six years. It was a case of a manager walking into the messroom and asking a few of us what we were doing (I was sitting spare), before telling us we were all going to be medscreened, which took the form of a breath test and urine sample. Straightforward, non invasive, and nothing to worry about.

I’m aware it happened at another of my TOC’s depots recently so appears to be done on a depot by depot basis.

As you say “for cause” testing will follow any incident, and “on suspicion” if anyone suspected someone was under the influence. I think I’m also right in saying that, although the D&A policy applies to all staff on the railway, only safety critical staff face random tests.

Just a bit bizarre that they then allow you to continue safety critical work before they get the results. 99% of the time the results will be negative but there have been instances as I mentioned earlier where this hasn’t been the case.

That’s only the case with random tests. If it’s for cause or on suspicion you’d be taken off safety critical duties pending results.

 

[ALPAL]

There won't be any "foreign companies without a caring bone".

Just to clarify this wasn't me bashing non-British companies in the UK, I meant when I was working abroad in places where worker's rights and privacy are not anywhere as good as they are here. Realise that may have came across as a bit xenophobic, sorry!

 

[scotraildriver]

Here it is a requirement that 5% of each depot are tested annually. If you have any sort of incident you will get "for cause" screening which may cover the 5% depending how many people have incidents. I've never had a random in 25 years. Incidentally drugs and alcohol screening isn't part of the routine medical (only the first one for new starts) but you will give a urine sample to check for diabetes.

 

[skyhigh]

So I'm looking for your honest experience on testing frequency and how it's done, hopefully it will alleviate my anxieties a bit.

Nice and easy, simple urine test and breathalyser. If you're following the policies nothing to be worried about. 'For cause' testing may be carried out if you have an incident or someone suspects you're booking on drunk (never personally known the latter to happen). A certain percentage of staff will be randomly tested (depends on company but at my place 5% of all employees are tested, including those who are not safety critical). I suspect it depends on the company but we're given 48hrs notice of random testing, which in my opinion reduces the effectiveness somewhat.

 

[cin88]

I've only ever been D&A tested twice, both at my safety critical medicals. The one at your medical also gets dipped by one of those test strips that your GP uses to check for obvious signs of common healh problems (infections, diabetes etc). That might not be the case for other companies though.

I was talking to the medical tech at my last one after remarking about the awkwardness of the process (taping up the flush handle, sink taps etc), and he said that my employers have actually given them more funding for random screening in order to increase the amount of people being screened. So I fully expect to find the nurse, my line manager (a manager has to be present for random screening at my company) and someone to cover for me at the door one day soon.

Like everyone else safety critical, there's also the chance of being for cause screened or screened on suspicion of being under the influence.

 

[GB]

Nice and easy, simple urine test and breathalyser. If you're following the policies nothing to be worried about. 'For cause' testing may be carried out if you have an incident or someone suspects you're booking on drunk (never personally known the latter to happen). A certain percentage of staff will be randomly tested (depends on company but at my place 5% of all employees are tested, including those who are not safety critical). I suspect it depends on the company but we're given 48hrs notice of random testing, which in my opinion reduces the effectiveness somewhat.

Giving notice for a random is insane and not within the spirit of what the test is there for!

 

[Horizon22]

Giving notice for a random is insane and not within the spirit of what the test is there for!

Yeah it is a bizarre concept although I think it is getting phased out. I've known of some local reps insist on 48h in negotiations though, which I think is just odd.

 

[SCDR_WMR]

Yeah it is a bizarre concept although I think it is getting phased out. I've known of some local reps insist on 48h in negotiations though, which I think is just odd.

Come to think of it, we can be 'booked' onto a random test on the 48hr sheet but I've only seen it a handful of times in 5 years.

I've only really seen ones done after an operational incident, which isn't really random at all

 

[philly1001]

A certain hr lady once said it works out roughly to 5% of staff a year per traincrew depots for randoms but obviously there`s for cause and the suspicious ones.
I did get tested randomly twice in a year though a few years ago but know people that havent been randomed in 10+ years

 

[driver9000]

Outside of periodic medicals I've been randomly selected twice in nearly 17 years.

 

[Horizon22]

A certain hr lady once said it works out roughly to 5% of staff a year per traincrew depots for randoms but obviously there`s for cause and the suspicious ones.
I did get tested randomly twice in a year though a few years ago but know people that havent been randomed in 10+ years

That's the true nature of "random"!

 

[iwasyoungonce]

Hi!

I've read a fair few threads on this to try and understand more but most are from a standpoint of a druggie asking how to fool tests etc so receive a deservedly harsh response.

To make this clear, I've never touched drugs and do not drink, so have nothing to hide. I'm asking from a standpoint of the weird amount of anxiety controlled drugs sampling gives me, it's so bad for me I'd pay good money to have a blood/saliva/hair test done instead to prove my innocence. This comes from the overly invasive experiences I've had with foreign companies that don't have a caring bone in their bodies.

So I'm looking for your honest experience on testing frequency and how it's done, hopefully it will alleviate my anxieties a bit.

Cheers!

So your saying you would rather have someone stick a needle in your arm to draw off 2 vials of your blood than pee into a container while a nurse stands outside the toilet door ?
Also I don't see your rationale that some companies are "invasive" and don't have a caring bone in their body, these tests are done for a specific reason

 

[Nuttygooner]

Where I work, in the last 6 years there have been 4 people who lost their jobs after they were selected for random D&A testing.

At least 4 lost their jobs after a post incident testing.

At least 2, that I know of, were arrested for being under the influence of D/A on the job.

 

[ALPAL]

So your saying you would rather have someone stick a needle in your arm to draw off 2 vials of your blood than pee into a container while a nurse stands outside the toilet door ?
Also I don't see your rationale that some companies are "invasive" and don't have a caring bone in their body, these tests are done for a specific reason

Yup, I would.

My previous company insisted on the person watching over your shoulder, not outside the toilet door. If you failed to give a sample you paid the flight home and had to leave the country within 48h. Hence my extreme and unfortunate anxiety through association on this issue.

 

[Efini92]

Well you will of course have one every time you have a safety-critical medical. Random drugs testing is well...random. I have never known it happen to anyone, anywhere I've worked over several years. There is also "for cause" drugs screening after an incident or someone suspects you to be under the influence of drugs/alcohol. I have seen this happen before.

If one is required, it will go through the company's authorised supplier and will be done by the book. There won't be any "foreign companies without a caring bone" but if you are a regular employee doing nothing out of the ordinary, its highly unlikely you'd ever run into this outside your scheduled mandatory medicals, of which there will be <1 a year (and probably an ever lower frequency than that)

Drugs tests are only carried out on a medical for new entrants. After that you’ll only get one post incident (for cause) or random.

 

[dk1]

Our TOC often struggles to get the required amount of random screening for traincrew, at that point the poor office staff get called down each time to make up the numbers.

 

[Simon11]

Here it is a requirement that 5% of each depot are tested annually. If you have any sort of incident you will get "for cause" screening which may cover the 5% depending how many people have incidents. I've never had a random in 25 years. Incidentally drugs and alcohol screening isn't part of the routine medical (only the first one for new starts) but you will give a urine sample to check for diabetes.

Surprising to see such a low percentage are tested each year.

Appreciate that all rail staff are very careful before shifts but it should really be a random test annually for each member of staff? Otherwise someone could work for 20 years before getting tested…?

 

[scotraildriver]

Surprising to see such a low percentage are tested each year.

Appreciate that all rail staff are very careful before shifts but it should really be a random test annually for each member of staff? Otherwise someone could work for 20 years before getting tested…?

If they have no incidents then yes that can happen. But everyone knows you will absolutely be tested if you have any sort of incident and that in itself I think is a big deterrent to anyone taking a chance. It might not even be your fault. You could have a derailment through no fault of your own but you'll still be tested at the time and investigated later.I've only ever known 2 people lose their jobs after failing a test, and both had SPADs.

 

[Elecman]

My last Random had no notice ( my boss forgot to tell me) and only mentioned it after I had returned from the loo that I had 20 mins to get to 101 Piccadilly ! Had to drink a shed load of water quickly to enable the pee sample as failure to provide is loss of your job as it’s classed as a fail.

 

[ALPAL]

My last Random had no notice ( my boss forgot to tell me) and only mentioned it after I had returned from the loo that I had 20 mins to get to 101 Piccadilly ! Had to drink a shed load of water quickly to enable the pee sample as failure to provide is loss of your job as it’s classed as a fail.

That’s really bad if I understood correctly, so you had to do this before going on shift? The body doesn't pass water through so quickly so although you can indeed wee quickly as in your situation your bladder will continue to fill for the next few hours basically meaning you need to pee a lot for a time, not good for a driver's concentration!

 

[ComUtoR]

Refusal to take the test at my TOC will lead to you being considered as testing positive and ia considered gross misconduct and dismissal will follow.

 

[dk1]

Refusal to take the test at my TOC will lead to you being considered as testing positive and ia considered gross misconduct and dismissal will follow.

Oh yes & at mine. This has only ever happened once & that was a catering employee who was duly dismissed.

 

[Komma]

I have had 4 random tests in 8 years at my toc, yet some guards who have been on the job 20 plus years haven't had one.
For me I treat it as a day off working trains, if they are going to take the urine so will I.

 

[hooverboy]

Here it is a requirement that 5% of each depot are tested annually. If you have any sort of incident you will get "for cause" screening which may cover the 5% depending how many people have incidents. I've never had a random in 25 years. Incidentally drugs and alcohol screening isn't part of the routine medical (only the first one for new starts) but you will give a urine sample to check for diabetes.

That's actually very low in the grand scheme of things.
To put things in perspective you are more likely to be screened for contraband/illicit substance abuse if you are a frequent international traveller,and depending on your destination of choice the consequences for a positive result can potentially be a lot more severe.

For instance,co-codamol can come up in your system as an opioid derivative.
Rail medical screening will pick up use,but you'll merely get a reprimand.
Arab/Asian border control pick this up and you'll be immediately arrested, if lucky deported.If not so lucky a fairly stiff jail sentence( 10 years plus without a legitiamte doctors authorisation would not be uncommon).Potentially worse.

Refusal to take the test at my TOC will lead to you being considered as testing positive and ia considered gross misconduct and dismissal will follow.

So is failing to provide a specimen when asked to do so by the police on a breathalyzer.
I take it pretty much everybody drives a car?

 

[dk1]

Up until five years ago I had always taken Veganin tablets for any pain, headache etc. I knew they where good as far more expensive than standard Paracetamol or Ibuprofen. Suddenly I got several phone calls from my manager due to something picked up at a random screening but couldn’t pinpoint what it was until I remembered popping one the day before. That solved the mystery as apparently Codeine consumption is not permitted as a train driver. I honestly had no idea & had used them most of my life.

 

[hooverboy]

Surprising to see such a low percentage are tested each year.

Appreciate that all rail staff are very careful before shifts but it should really be a random test annually for each member of staff? Otherwise someone could work for 20 years before getting tested…?

To be honest ,for a safety critical role I would have thought regular three monthly tests would be the norm, as that is a fairly typical timeframe to have stuff still circulating in the body.
If urine doesn't pick it up then hair follicle samples do.

 

[43066]

That's actually very low in the grand scheme of things.
To put things in perspective you are more likely to be screened for contraband/illicit substance abuse if you are a frequent international traveller,and depending on your destination of choice the consequences for a positive result can potentially be a lot more severe.

For instance,co-codamol can come up in your system as an opioid derivative.
Rail medical screening will pick up use,but you'll merely get a reprimand.
Arab/Asian border control pick this up and you'll be immediately arrested, if lucky deported.If not so lucky a fairly stiff jail sentence( 10 years plus without a legitiamte doctors authorisation would not be uncommon).Potentially worse.


So is failing to provide a specimen when asked to do so by the police on a breathalyzer.
I take it pretty much everybody drives a car?

I’m not sure what border checks for international travellers, or breathalysers for car drivers, have to do with railway D&A tests for train drivers, which is what the thread is about?

Up until five years ago I had always taken Veganin tablets for any pain, headache etc. I knew they where good as far more expensive than standard Paracetamol or Ibuprofen. Suddenly I got several phone calls from my manager due to something picked up at a random screening but couldn’t pinpoint what it was until I remembered popping one the day before. That solved the mystery as apparently Codeine consumption is not permitted as a train driver. I honestly had no idea & had used them most of my life.

Don’t take this the wrong way, but I think you were possibly quite fortunate there!

I’ve certainly heard of traincrew being sacked for not disclosing meds, which is technically a breach of the D&A policy, just as much as being under the influence at work. I’ve always been told that anything other than paracetamol needs to be disclosed.