How good is geographical knowledge amongst rail staff?

[387star]

From my oberservations it appears in a recession more and more are joining the railways purely because of the money
A lot of these people have little interest in trains and knowledge of the network

In your opinion is geographical and non safety related operational knowledge worsening. .. are your expectations often met in this regard

It can be embarrassing because it is after all a travel industry and though it is fragmented there is still such a thing as the national network
Knowing routing and tocs is very important

 

[Llanigraham]

Why have you presumed that everyone works for a ToC?

Trains?
They go past here, so what?
I do my job and take the money, thank you very much.

I cannot work out why you have to have an "interest" in the railway just because you work on it.

 

[455driver]

So this is just another thread moaning about staff then, oh good! :roll:

 

[Searle]

Why have you presumed that everyone works for a ToC?

Trains?
They go past here, so what?
I do my job and take the money, thank you very much.

I cannot work out why you have to have an "interest" in the railway just because you work on it.

How exactly have you come to the conclusion that he is assuming this...?

 

[els]

With private companies, customer service skills are more important. You can have a perfect knowledge of the network but if you have the communication skills of a goat, then you're not going to be much of an asset.

Essentially, the knowledge can be more easily gained than people skills can, so TOCs only tend to test you at an interview on the very basic knowledge skills such as 'can you read a timetable?'.

 

[Simon11]

This is sort of similar to some bid teams, where not everyone has actually worked for a TOC, yet is suggesting improvements with having any experiencing of working for a TOC.

But then the bonus is that they may come up with new ideas to the industry, so swings and around about.

Back to this post, if staff have general knowledge of their area of the country, then this should be suitable. If they aren't sure, then its fairly easy to ask another member of staff.

 

[Greenback]

I don't think anything is worsening. It has always been variable, and it was in BR days and when I started in 1998. I can still recall the atonishment of my colleagues when, during my training, I was able to reel of the times and conenctions of a Reading to Llanbedr journey off the top of my head.

 

[Simon11]

Being able to reel of names of times and connections for a journey should not be a requirement when a staff starts to job.

After a few weeks in their position, I would expect them to be able to be aware of when the trains leave to the major destinations.

 

[thelongestroad]

I have a very good knowledge of my area but once outside that it is not so good.

The more you do the job, the more you learn. Especially those that work in ticket offices and travel centres.

 

[Greenback]

Being able to reel of names of times and connections for a journey should not be a requirement when a staff starts to job.

After a few weeks in their position, I would expect them to be able to be aware of when the trains leave to the major destinations.

Of course it isn't a requirment. mine was an extreme case, since the other trainees didn't even know where Newcastle and Holyhead were! As such, they had never even heard of Llanbedr, and I guess that few railway staff outside of that area have, even after training. The exceptions might be a couple that have holidayed there, or lvie din the are, like I used to.

I have a very good knowledge of my area but once outside that it is not so good.

The more you do the job, the more you learn. Especially those that work in ticket offices and travel centres.

This is true, but only to a certain extent. I agree wthat most staff will develop an excellent knowledge of the local area, but some people are not interested in broadening their knowledge any more than they need to, and some are not motivated enough to try and achieve excellent customer service either, so they don't care too much!

The internet and electronic journey planners have made it so easy for staff, but also difficult in a way, since there is less need to actually find out for yourself.

 

[CatfordCat]

To be honest, I think this

This is true, but only to a certain extent. I agree wthat most staff will develop an excellent knowledge of the local area, but some people are not interested in broadening their knowledge any more than they need to, and some are not motivated enough to try and achieve excellent customer service either, so they don't care too much!

could be said of people in a heck of a lot of jobs. The "not my job - dunno" answer is fairly widespread and not just in transport.

Not entirely sure if it's that much worse than it ever has been.

In an age where a lot of people are outsourced and / or casualised, I can understand people not being any more motivated than to do the bare minimum. Especially in some environments where you're told to "go the extra mile" one day, then criticised for spending any time doing so the next...

Also, in a lot of jobs (not just transport), workplaces are no longer run by people who have done the job for many years, but increasingly by people who have joined as 'fast track trainee managers' - and a lot of staff training is much more about trotting out a corporate line from a powerpoint presentation rather than passing on practical experience.

The transport industry has the additional difficulty in that the average customer sees "the transport network" which exists much less than it used to - but transport companies increasingly don't encourage staff to give information about other operators' services in case the other operator fails to deliver and the customer blames the operator who gave the information...

 

[reb0118]

I have always had a good geographical knowledge of the network.

 

[Greenback]

To be honest, I think this



could be said of people in a heck of a lot of jobs. The "not my job - dunno" answer is fairly widespread and not just in transport.

Exactly right, and it has always been the case, which was what I was trying to say when I went off on a bit of a tangent!

In an age where a lot of people are outsourced and / or casualised, I can understand people not being any more motivated than to do the bare minimum. Especially in some environments where you're told to "go the extra mile" one day, then criticised for spending any time doing so the next...

I agree. Although some casual employees may be more motivated as they try to secure a permanent job. Again, though, it;s down tot he individual.

Also, in a lot of jobs (not just transport), workplaces are no longer run by people who have done the job for many years, but increasingly by people who have joined as 'fast track trainee managers' - and a lot of staff training is much more about trotting out a corporate line from a powerpoint presentation rather than passing on practical experience.

Again, I agree. In general, there are few 'jobs for life' any more, so the traditional 'passing down of knowledge from one generation to another has been lost. Along with that has gone the respect that was built up for a long serving employee who knew the job inside out.

 

[387star]

How exactly have you come to the conclusion that he is assuming this...?

Yeah sorry only tocs
I am a conductor working at fgw
I only ask because I heard a shocking story of a guy at reading not knowing where slough was (some time ago)

 

[Llanigraham]

Yeah sorry only tocs
I am a conductor working at fgw
I only ask because I heard a shocking story of a guy at reading not knowing where slough was (some time ago)

Thank you, as I thought.

I suppose an apology from Searle is out of the question?
Or perhaps he would like to explain why I need to know anything other than the details of the 12 miles of track I control, plus a little bit about the bits either side?

 

[Searle]

Thank you, as I thought.

I suppose an apology from Searle is out of the question?
Or perhaps he would like to explain why I need to know anything other than the details of the 12 miles of track I control, plus a little bit about the bits either side?

Well I'm just confused now, but sorry I guess

 

[Gwenllian2001]

Yeah sorry only tocs
I am a conductor working at fgw
I only ask because I heard a shocking story of a guy at reading not knowing where slough was (some time ago)

A couple of weeks ago I asked the Booking Clerk, at Bridgend, whether it was possible to book a ticket to Tredegar. She immediately quoted Newport as the nearest station. I pointed out that Rhymney is only a couple of miles from Tredegar and that there is a bus link shown in the timetable. She just shrugged and said;

'I can book you to Rhymney, if you'd prefer'.

I got the impression that she had no idea where Rhymney or Tredegar are.

 

[ChiefPlanner]

Come on - much of the population does not have a clue where anything / anywhere is ? TOC staff knowledge is probably better than most , and this is a forum with more than a bit of geographical awareness in the members.

Anyway - who can tell me a bus / rail link to Cwmtwrch ? (from Hoxton)

 

[30907]

I imagine Traveline Cymru could do the job, though perhaps not all the way from Hoxton.

BTW I thought I had reasonably good geographical knowledge, but it wasn't that good....online maps are quicker than the oldfashioned Gazetteer.

 

[Oswyntail]

Come on - much of the population does not have a clue where anything / anywhere is ? TOC staff knowledge is probably better than most , and this is a forum with more than a bit of geographical awareness in the members.

Anyway - who can tell me a bus / rail link to Cwmtwrch ? (from Hoxton)

Hoxton leave 08:28
Take London Overground (towards West Croydon
arrive 08:33 Whitechapel
Walk to Whitechapel Underground Station
depart 08:39
Take London Underground/Hammersmith & City towards Hammersmith train arrive 09:08 Paddington (H&C Line)
London Paddington
depart 09:15
Take First Great Western towards Cardiff Central
arrive 11:23 Cardiff Central
depart 11:38
Take Arriva Trains Wales towards Milford Haven
arrive 12:17 Neath Rail Station

Walk to Neath, Railway Station 1 (on Station Square)
depart 12:28
Take N.A.T. Group/X63 towards Ystradgynlais
arrive 12:50 Ystradgynlais
Walk to Ystradgynlais, Commercial Street (on Commercial Street)
depart 13:10
Take First Cymru/125 towards Swansea
arrive 13:18 Glanrhyd, Capital Buildings
20 mins Walk to Cwmtwrch, Neath Port Talbot
arrive 13:38

End of journey

Hope that was the right Cwmtwrch

 

[Gwenllian2001]

Come on - much of the population does not have a clue where anything / anywhere is ? TOC staff knowledge is probably better than most , and this is a forum with more than a bit of geographical awareness in the members.

Anyway - who can tell me a bus / rail link to Cwmtwrch ? (from Hoxton)

With due respect, I think that you have missed the point that I was trying to make. The attachment shows an extract from the Public Timetable. You will see that bus links are shown from Ystrad Mynach to Blackwood and from Rhymney to Tredegar. Both of these services are timetabled to integrate with railway services. It transpires that it is possible to book a through ticket to Blackwood via Ystrad Mynach but not to Tredegar via Rhymney although both services start from the railway stations. Nowhere in the timetable does it show the availability, or not, of through ticketing.

My enquiry was on behalf of a neighbour who doesn't often use the train or any other form of public transport. I agree that many people are geographically ignorant but a railway booking clerk should know that Rhymney is much nearer to Tredegar than Newport and cheaper, particularly for anyone holding a Valley Senior Railcard.

I don't think that you will find any bus links to Cwmtwrch, Upper or Lower in any railway timetable.

 

[Darren R]

Just out of curiosity though - do all rail staff in customer-facing jobs have access to things like Traveline Cymru whilst working? How many stations are there on the network - including tram/metro/tube services? C'mon people - cut them some slack! You can't expect someone to know all the minutiae of services to and from every railway station in the country just because they've got a company tie on! I pride myself in my geographical knowledge of the UK - but I couldn't answer the hypothetical question posed earlier. I'd have to do a bit of Googling to find out - the guard on the train can't do that, and nor (I suspect) can the booking clerk at your local station - assuming you're lucky enough to have one that is!

 

[dvboy]

A couple of weeks ago I asked the Booking Clerk, at Bridgend, whether it was possible to book a ticket to Tredegar. She immediately quoted Newport as the nearest station. I pointed out that Rhymney is only a couple of miles from Tredegar and that there is a bus link shown in the timetable. She just shrugged and said;

'I can book you to Rhymney, if you'd prefer'.

I got the impression that she had no idea where Rhymney or Tredegar are.

Tredegar is a funny one - next time book to J663, "Tredegar via Newport" or the cheaper J729 "Tredegar via Cardiff" rather than H344 "Tredegar Bus" which lists no fares on brfares.com

 

[GodAtum]

I agree they dont need to know everything but they should have knowledge of routes from the station they work at.

 

[trentside]

There's only so far your knowledge can take you. I've seen staff with 25+ years service get thrown by a station they've never heard of, and then have to ask the customer how it's spelled to ensure they've got the right place. I consider myself to have good geographical knowledge, and a fairly good idea of train services and connections, but I get thrown by things occasionally - in fact, I did some seat reservations today to a station I'd never heard of somewhere outside of Torquay.

Given our extensive network, you can't really expect staff to have every single station and its location committed to memory - can you? It would be largely redundant information. Given my interest in the railways, I have excellent knowledge of the various metro services in South London, but I very rarely get to use it, given that I work 150 miles north of there. To someone with no interest, learning such information which would very rarely need to be recalled would be tedious and, given the capabilities of modern ticket office systems, largely pointless - as they can find out information in a few clicks of the mouse. I would expect most ticket clerks to have a good knowledge of their local area, plus connections to most major destinations from there - beyond that, I think that a reliance on the computer is fine.

 

[dk1]

Pride myself on having travelled across much of the network so it helps loads. You can amaze passengers by suggesting a nice pub to stop off at whilst walking from Burnley Manchester Road to Burnley Central whilst on a journey from Stowmarket to Colne.

 

[hairyhandedfool]

When I started on the railway, I quickly got to grips with the common stations and most of the connections, but because I travelled to and from work by train it took me four years to find out that 'The Monks Bar' was actually just outside the station.

When I moved north I had to ask how Aigburth was spelled because I couldn't find eggbuth on the system and the less said about Slaithwaite the better.

Geographical things can be learnt over time, knowing the job is more important to start with.

 

[dk1]

I grew up with a BR map on my bedroom wall (porn came much later) & it really frustrates me that many staff inc managers are so ill informed about anything off their own TOCs patch. Its so wrong. We are all part of the National Rail Network .

 

[mullin]

My experience is damn good when I've asked for tickets from small villages to other small villages hundreds of miles away.
I've had ticket office staff state when I've asked for a particular ticket say 'ah, near <name of nearby town>', staff on trains comment about places I'm travelling to and in the most recent case, a Virgin TM say he knows the village well (but after further chatting he lived a couple of villages away)

 

[Starmill]

It's helped me out loads (and I bet staff get this feeling sometimes too, esp ones on here who are the most likely to be interested)!

Meeting loads of new people for the first time, as you do in Freshers' week, many are astonished that you've heard of their town.

"Where you from?"
"Northumberland"
"Oooh, interesting, where exactly?"
"Oh, you won't know it, someplace near Newcastle."
"Go on, Try me!"
"Umm, Hexham."
"Oh yeah, its sort of in the middle, between Newcastle and Carlisle."
*Shocked face*


Wonder how I knew that, eh? Hehehee

Nobody is perfect though, far from it, and I did get thrown the other day by Worplesdon - I was clueless!
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

So this is just another thread moaning about staff then, oh good! :roll:

I think we've managed to shift the focus admirably. Besides we can do that on our own time