How green are Trains ?

[Sceptre]

One of the seemingly paradoxical things is, in some places, battery electric vehicles aren't really that much more green than hybrid electrics.

In France, where green electricity production is 123% of demand (80% nuclear, 43% renewables), then BEVs are a no-brainer. But the UK still makes up a quarter of its electricity demand with gas, which has some noticeable carbon impact.

One of the worst countries in Western Europe for this, however, is Germany. The fossil fuel lobby's greatest trick was convincing people that Germany was green for burning more lignite to make up for shortfalls from decommissioning nuclear.

 

[Jozhua]

Would making trains lighter help things?

Been as they already cost so much maybe some composite materials for the bodyshells could help reduce weight...

I saw earlier as well a post about getting carriages to share bogies such as on the continent!

Another upside of electric trains is that they don't carry their fuel around with them all day, as Diesels do.

I also wonder what sort of impact the flat fronts of the 150/153/156/158 with the coupling poking out has on air resistance

 

[Ken H]

Would making trains lighter help things?

Been as they already cost so much maybe some composite materials for the bodyshells could help reduce weight...

I saw earlier as well a post about getting carriages to share bogies such as on the continent!

Another upside of electric trains is that they don't carry their fuel around with them all day, as Diesels do.

I also wonder what sort of impact the flat fronts of the 150/153/156/158 with the coupling poking out has on air resistance

maybe having intercity trains hauling diesel engines from London to Edinburgh costs weight.

Just been to Gigleswick station to photograph the crossing for another thread. All the station lights were on. Bright sunlight.

if own goals like that were no so commonplace then I might take greenery on the railways a little more seriously.

 

[DynamicSpirit]

On the subject of diesel trains and being green... A couple of days ago I was in Chester waiting to catch a 5-car Voyager to London. To my surprise, the driver turned on the train's engines a full 35-ish minutes before the train was due to leave (and about 20 minutes before opening the doors to let passengers on the train). I actually moved somewhat away from the train because after a few minutes, I could smell (as well as see) the diesel exhaust and I figured it probably wasn't very good to breathe in!

Does a Voyager really need that long to warm up its engines before moving? Or is there some other reason why you'd start running them for so long in a station before setting off?

 

[Richtea25]

How green are trains?
Depends.
Merseyrail paint their trains yellow, so they’re not very green. London Northwestern paint theirs with bits of green though.

 

[The Ham]

The following chart is from the Rail Industry Decarbonisation Task Force's report in January this year. The figures date back to DfT's 2007 White Paper, so presumably nobody has redone them since then! Since 2007 cars, planes and electric trains will have improved a bit - cars and planes through better fuel efficiency and electric trains because coal has largely gone from the generation mix and been replaced by renewables.

The notes are worth reading: Data assumes the following load factors: urban bus 20%, intercity coach 60%, intercity rail 40%, all other trains 30%, domestic airlines 70%, and cars 30%. Road, air and diesel-powered rail vehicles’ emissions have been increased to take account of refinery losses and electric powered vehicles take into account losses in the grid.

grams CO2 per passenger km
-----------------------------------------------50--------------100--------------150------------200-------------250
View attachment 61902

From the below:
https://www.carbonbrief.org/analysis-why-the-uks-co2-emissions-have-fallen-38-since-1990

There's an interactive graph which shows that between 2007 & 2017 CO2 emissions of the country have fallen by about 1/3.

Likewise government data on power generation shows Coal, Oil and Gas has fallen from ~80% to ~45% of the energy mix (Q1 2007 to Q1 2018).

 

[Ken H]

From the below:
https://www.carbonbrief.org/analysis-why-the-uks-co2-emissions-have-fallen-38-since-1990

There's an interactive graph which shows that between 2007 & 2017 CO2 emissions of the country have fallen by about 1/3.

Likewise government data on power generation shows Coal, Oil and Gas has fallen from ~80% to ~45% of the energy mix (Q1 2007 to Q1 2018).

We dont half hammer coal and gas in the winter. Especially on those cold windless cloudy days in February when there is an anticyclone
The we need the fossil fuel plants when demand is high and renewables are low
Look at the annual graphs for end of jan here, or for feb 2018 when coal and gas turbine were essential.
http://gridwatch.co.uk/

old version here

https://www.gridwatch.templar.co.uk/

links are to real time graphcal presentation of electricity demand and generation by type (pretty dials) along with historical data in graph form. cant quote as there is no text, just images.