How long did the BR Blue & Grey livery last for?

[yorksrob]

This came up on Facebook recently. The official policy was that unrefurbished EPBs were painted blue and grey at overhaul whilst the refurbished got NSE. There were some exceptions. Four BR type 62XX 2EPBs got NSE livery and I'm pretty sure some of the refurb Bulleid 4EPBs got a coat of blue and grey well after 1986. I don't think any unrefurbished Bulleids got NSE.

I certainly remember catching refurbed Bullied EPB's in blue/grey in the early 90's, however I wouldn't have had much idea how recently they'd been repainted.

 

[Bikeman78]

I certainly remember catching refurbed Bullied EPB's in blue/grey in the early 90's, however I wouldn't have had much idea how recently they'd been repainted.

I suppose someone might know how often they were overhauled. The majority of the Selhurst 4EPBs were NSE when they moved to Slade Green in 1991/1992. 5402/4/6/12 were definitely still blue and grey.

 

[sprinterguy]

On that subject, didn't Wrexham and Shropshire start operations with a blue and grey set of Mark 3s before their own coaches were ready? Are they the same ones?

Wrexham and Shropshire did indeed start out with repainted blue & grey vehicles hired from Cargo-D while their own vehicles underwent refurbishment. Some of these vehicles have ultimately ended up in the Banbury commuter rake that we see today (In Chiltern white and silver livery since 2016, of course), but others were refurbished and renumbered for Arriva Trains Wales or as powered door vehicles for Chiltern.

 

[Mogz]

I noticed a picture in this month’s Modern Railway magazine with a colour picture of a blue A4 hauling what appears to be a rake of blue and grey... in 1939!

 

[prod_pep]

Unfortunately, I have nothing but my memory to rely on, but I think I remember blue and grey stock running on Merseyrail when I got to Liverpool in 1997 - rather later than the picture quoted here.

Apologies for resuscitating an old thread, but I do think you're right that blue and grey lasted into 1997 on Merseyrail. I was but a kid at the time but I do seem to remember riding a blue and grey 508 that year and thinking what a survivor it was.

I'd be really interested to know what was the last serviceable Merseyrail unit in blue and grey. It has to have been the last non-heritage example of blue and grey running anywhere in the country, surely?

I've never been able to confirm it for certain with 508112 and 508139 both suggested by different sources. A bit of researching old photos has shown that as of April 1996, the following were still in blue and grey: 507004, 508112, 508125, 508130, 508134, 508136, 508137, 508139 and 508141.

The latest date I've found is 28th September 1996 with 507004, photo copyright Ryan Tranmer: https://www.flickr.com/photos/60628514@N02/49822151758/. Can anyone advance on that?

Additionally, 507/8s were still being repainted into blue and grey into summer 1991. Hadn't the rest of the network long since abandoned repaints into this livery?

 

[Journeyman]

507/8s were still being repainted into blue and grey into summer 1991. Hadn't the rest of the network long since abandoned repaints into this livery?

As mentioned elsewhere on this thread, Network SouthEast had a policy of repainting unrefurbished EPB stock in blue and grey, and never applied NSE livery to them as they were deemed too poor to justify it. The trains survived until early 1995, but I don't know when the last repaint was.

 

[nlogax]

And to think I used to find blue and grey boring. In recent years when I've stumbled across Riviera's rake of b/g Mk2Fs I think they look amazing.

 

[Journeyman]

And to think I used to find blue and grey boring. In recent years when I've stumbled across Riviera's rake of b/g Mk2Fs I think they look amazing.

I know what you mean, it's quite a novelty these days! It's a livery that seems very under-represented in preservation too.

 

[hexagon789]

And to think I used to find blue and grey boring. In recent years when I've stumbled across Riviera's rake of b/g Mk2Fs I think they look amazing.

Though I think they'd all be repaints into b/g, having carried INTERCITY and then many of them Virgin colours.

 

[hexagon789]

Apologies for resuscitating an old thread, but I do think you're right that blue and grey lasted into 1997 on Merseyrail. I was but a kid at the time but I do seem to remember riding a blue and grey 508 that year and thinking what a survivor it was.

I'd be really interested to know what was the last serviceable Merseyrail unit in blue and grey. It has to have been the last non-heritage example of blue and grey running anywhere in the country, surely?

I've never been able to confirm it for certain with 508112 and 508139 both suggested by different sources. A bit of researching old photos has shown that as of April 1996, the following were still in blue and grey: 507004, 508112, 508125, 508130, 508134, 508136, 508137, 508139 and 508141.

The latest date I've found is 28th September 1996 with 507004, photo copyright Ryan Tranmer: https://www.flickr.com/photos/60628514@N02/49822151758/. Can anyone advance on that?

Additionally, 507/8s were still being repainted into blue and grey into summer 1991. Hadn't the rest of the network long since abandoned repaints into this livery?

Hadn't 1998 been mentioned previously up thread?

 

[nlogax]

Though I think they'd all be repaints into b/g, having carried INTERCITY and then many of them Virgin colours.

Yep, all repaints with that ex-works sparkle about them.

 

[Cowley]

I know what you mean, it's quite a novelty these days! It's a livery that seems very under-represented in preservation too.

It is under-represented. The East Lancs have few that look really good behind an appropriately liveried loco.

 

[prod_pep]

Hadn't 1998 been mentioned previously up thread?

The livery was extinct on Merseyrail by early 1997 at the latest, at least for in service units. However, a very faded 508129 retained its blue and grey whilst in store at Southport until it moved to Eastleigh in January 1998 for conversion to Connex, and the last 508 of all to retain blue and grey was 508113, again badly discoloured, at MoD Kineton until March 1998.

 

[sprinterguy]

It is under-represented. The East Lancs have few that look really good behind an appropriately liveried loco.

Yes I always appreciate the East Lancs' blue and grey mark 1 vehicles for creating the right ambience at diesel events. As to my eyes locos in sector era liveries look quite incongruous with stock in earlier British Railways liveries, or for that matter with pre-nationalisation era coaching stock!

 

[Bow Fell]

The livery was extinct on Merseyrail by early 1997 at the latest, at least for in service units. However, a very faded 508129 retained its blue and grey whilst in store at Southport until it moved to Eastleigh in January 1998 for conversion to Connex, and the last 508 of all to retain blue and grey was 508113, again badly discoloured, at MoD Kineton until March 1998.

Now I think that last ones have to be either 112, 136, 137 or 139. It’s definitely one of those. 137 sticks out in my mind.

I might need to go back and look at their overhaul dates to see!

 

[hexagon789]

Yep, all repaints with that ex-works sparkle about them.

They do look very clean it must be said!

The livery was extinct on Merseyrail by early 1997 at the latest, at least for in service units. However, a very faded 508129 retained its blue and grey whilst in store at Southport until it moved to Eastleigh in January 1998 for conversion to Connex, and the last 508 of all to retain blue and grey was 508113, again badly discoloured, at MoD Kineton until March 1998.

That might have been it then

 

[prod_pep]

Now I think that last ones have to be either 112, 136, 137 or 139. It’s definitely one of those. 137 sticks out in my mind.

I might need to go back and look at their overhaul dates to see!

If you could, I'd be really grateful Bow Fell. Would be nice to know the last 507 and 508 in blue and grey if at all possible.

 

[Bikeman78]

As mentioned elsewhere on this thread, Network SouthEast had a policy of repainting unrefurbished EPB stock in blue and grey, and never applied NSE livery to them as they were deemed too poor to justify it. The trains survived until early 1995, but I don't know when the last repaint was.

It didn't quite work, occasionally the paint shop painted them the wrong colour. Four of the 62XX 2EPB got NSE livery. Conversely about 25 of the refurbished Bulleid 4EPB never got NSE livery. Some of them must have had a repaint after NSE was launched. 5447 and 5486 ran around for two years with carriages in different liveries after vehicle swaps. I'm rather surprised they didn't repaint the one carriage on each unit.

 

[yorksrob]

It didn't quite work, occasionally the paint shop painted them the wrong colour. Four of the 62XX 2EPB got NSE livery. Conversely about 25 of the refurbished Bulleid 4EPB never got NSE livery. Some of them must have had a repaint after NSE was launched. 5447 and 5486 ran around for two years with carriages in different liveries after vehicle swaps. I'm rather surprised they didn't repaint the one carriage on each unit.

Yes, I remember being on refurbed EPB's in blue grey quite late on.