How many chances do you get, when applying for a Trainee Train Driver role?

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PickleTree

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10 Jan 2020
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335
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I have heard you only get two.

Please confirm.

Thank you.
Correct. There are some tests that you can fail as part of the initial application, online tests that don’t tend to count towards those lives. Generally once you get invited to psychometric tests etc you will lose your chances if you fail.
 

Owen2323

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Yes you are correct - you can only fail any element of the psychometric tests and the MMI set by the OPC once. If you do you generally go home there and then shortly after that element is marked. Some TOC's have the DMI (Driver manager interview) before the tests, most have it after but there is no limit on how many of these you can do.

The 2 lives rule has been in since about 2013 I think - it seems pretty brutal (I've failed it once so I would say that haha) but they get that many applicants that they can afford to be as picky as they like and the whole idea is that passing them is down to natural ability such that you either have it or you don't!

If you do pass the tests and MMI (multi modal interview) the scores last for a few years after so if you then fail the DMI you can take the scores elsewhere. Some TOC's honour this for longer than other's though (between 18 months and 5 years).

If that isn't complicated enough most TOC's require an enhanced score to be successful and other require 'only' the National standard. One TOC's enhanced standard can be different to another's (and no one knows what they are!?)

Are you confused yet haha!!!!?????

You are on what I believe to be the best source of information for rail recruitment in the UK............good luck :)
 

LCC106

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The 2 lives rule existed back in 2000! You can pass the tests as many times as you want eg if the validity of your passes lapses while you’re in a talent pool before you get a job, but you can only fail twice and then it’s game over.
 

Eski

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I failed the assessment centre twice with a TOC. I made the TOC (a different one) I've got an application with at the moment aware of this and they said that it didn't count towards their own psychometric testing and that I can proceed with my application
 

Star S W 9

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Yes you are correct - you can only fail any element of the psychometric tests and the MMI set by the OPC once. If you do you generally go home there and then shortly after that element is marked. Some TOC's have the DMI (Driver manager interview) before the tests, most have it after but there is no limit on how many of these you can do.

The 2 lives rule has been in since about 2013 I think - it seems pretty brutal (I've failed it once so I would say that haha) but they get that many applicants that they can afford to be as picky as they like and the whole idea is that passing them is down to natural ability such that you either have it or you don't!

If you do pass the tests and MMI (multi modal interview) the scores last for a few years after so if you then fail the DMI you can take the scores elsewhere. Some TOC's honour this for longer than other's though (between 18 months and 5 years).

If that isn't complicated enough most TOC's require an enhanced score to be successful and other require 'only' the National standard. One TOC's enhanced standard can be different to another's (and no one knows what they are!?)

Are you confused yet haha!!!!?????

You are on what I believe to be the best source of information for rail recruitment in the UK............good luck :)
Thank you for this - I plan to have a strong coffee, and complete my V.S.E this coming Monday morning.

I failed the assessment centre twice with a TOC. I made the TOC (a different one) I've got an application with at the moment aware of this and they said that it didn't count towards their own psychometric testing and that I can proceed with my application
Fantastic.
All the best.

The 2 lives rule existed back in 2000! You can pass the tests as many times as you want eg if the validity of your passes lapses while you’re in a talent pool before you get a job, but you can only fail twice and then it’s game over.
Oh wow.
I'll complete my V.S.E with my fingers and toes crossed.

Correct. There are some tests that you can fail as part of the initial application, online tests that don’t tend to count towards those lives. Generally once you get invited to psychometric tests etc you will lose your chances if you fail.
Thank you for explaining this.
 

Lewis H

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11 Dec 2018
Messages
146
I failed the assessment centre twice with a TOC. I made the TOC (a different one) I've got an application with at the moment aware of this and they said that it didn't count towards their own psychometric testing and that I can proceed with my application
I would double confirm this, because no TOC has their own psychometric testing, it’s a nationalised thing, everyone does the same tests
 

Emilali

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68
I failed the assessment centre twice with a TOC. I made the TOC (a different one) I've got an application with at the moment aware of this and they said that it didn't count towards their own psychometric testing and that I can proceed with my application
If you have failed the actual psychometric testing centre twice then you dont get another go. I can only assume you are meaning you have failed some sort of TOC specific testing twice. If not, whoever has told you that you can progress is wrong I’m afraid.
 

greatkingrat

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20 Jan 2011
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2,304
I suspect they met the national standard but not the enhanced standard. So not an actual failure for the purposes of the two strikes rule, but if the TOC required enhanced then they wouldn't be progressed to the next stage.
 
Joined
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If you have failed the actual psychometric testing centre twice then you dont get another go. I can only assume you are meaning you have failed some sort of TOC specific testing twice. If not, whoever has told you that you can progress is wrong I’m afraid.
Some TOCS don't use particular elements of the test. I got an enhanced pass applying for one TOC which didn't use the DFFT. When applying at my own TOC they said I'd have to take that one test; they then changed their minds and did away with the requirement for all applicants.
 

Owen2323

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84
I failed the assessment centre twice with a TOC. I made the TOC (a different one) I've got an application with at the moment aware of this and they said that it didn't count towards their own psychometric testing and that I can proceed with my application

Which TOC is this please? PM me if you aren't happy posting it......!?
 

Stigy

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I failed the assessment centre twice with a TOC. I made the TOC (a different one) I've got an application with at the moment aware of this and they said that it didn't count towards their own psychometric testing and that I can proceed with my application
If the TOC you have an application with now don’t do some of the assessments (as has been suggested), you won’t necessarily have used both of your lives. It’s debatable weather the VSE counts anyway towards your lives, but the OPC have told some people that it does (so we will go with that); so if you failed this twice with a TOC or FOC who use these (basically the enhanced psychometric testing) then you’d be out of the game, however if they don’t use them, you’ve not used up your lives.
 

Treadstone

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The VSE counts towards both your lives, but only those tocs that conduct the VSE which is quite a few but not all of them, VSE taken online also counts.
 

Stigy

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The VSE counts towards both your lives, but only those tocs that conduct the VSE which is quite a few but not all of them, VSE taken online also counts.
The TOCs/FOCs that use the VSE are the same that use the enhanced testing standard I believe.
 

DriverEight

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I have heard you only get two.

Please confirm.

Thank you.
Just to clarify this, the title of the thread is asking about the amount of times that you can APPLY for jobs. Many people on here have applied for way more than two and have never reached the MMI stage, so they can keep on applying. Is that correct?
 

LCC106

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Just to clarify this, the title of the thread is asking about the amount of times that you can APPLY for jobs. Many people on here have applied for way more than two and have never reached the MMI stage, so they can keep on applying. Is that correct?
Yes but if you have failed at the relevant tests to national standard twice it’s game over.
 

Stigy

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4,481
Just to clarify this, the title of the thread is asking about the amount of times that you can APPLY for jobs. Many people on here have applied for way more than two and have never reached the MMI stage, so they can keep on applying. Is that correct?
Yes, you can apply and take the tests as many times as you like, but you can only fail them once.
 

Rylievie

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Don't forget also if you pass to national standard and then take the test again to try and obtain an "enhanced" standard if you do worse than your original attempt it will overwrite that national pass. Essentially you are only as good as the last time you took the test. It really can be a bit of a minefield.
 

387star

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6,236
Yes you are correct - you can only fail any element of the psychometric tests and the MMI set by the OPC once. If you do you generally go home there and then shortly after that element is marked. Some TOC's have the DMI (Driver manager interview) before the tests, most have it after but there is no limit on how many of these you can do.

The 2 lives rule has been in since about 2013 I think - it seems pretty brutal (I've failed it once so I would say that haha) but they get that many applicants that they can afford to be as picky as they like and the whole idea is that passing them is down to natural ability such that you either have it or you don't!

If you do pass the tests and MMI (multi modal interview) the scores last for a few years after so if you then fail the DMI you can take the scores elsewhere. Some TOC's honour this for longer than other's though (between 18 months and 5 years).

If that isn't complicated enough most TOC's require an enhanced score to be successful and other require 'only' the National standard. One TOC's enhanced standard can be different to another's (and no one knows what they are!?)

Are you confused yet haha!!!!?????

You are on what I believe to be the best source of information for rail recruitment in the UK............good luck :)
tests were harder pre 2013

the old reactions test looked significantly harder than the computer tests which replaced it and may explain more people passing assessments than ever before
 

Stigy

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4,481
Hi. Does being unsuccessful after the DMI but passing everything else count as a life lost with tfw?
No, it doesn’t count as a life lost with anyone as the DMI isn’t a psychometric assessment.

Counts as a life lost with everyone as they are national wide tests.
Only the MMI would count as far as the interviews go, not DMI.
 
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