How much longer will social distancing go on for in the UK?

[PHILIPE]

The group protesting in London today do seem to have laid off the 5G conspiracy theory. They were scheduled to have a number of doctors speaking today, all positive. But then sadly the event was due to move on to a second location where David Icke was due to speak. I tried to feed back to some of the organisers that for someone of my age, having a total crackpot nutcase speak out for your cause will do it no good at all!

I was under the impression that this was going to be a serious gathering until I discovered that the likes of Piers Corbyn and David Icke were attending.

 

[Busaholic]

I was under the impression that this was going to be a serious gathering until I discovered that the likes of Piers Corbyn and David Icke were attending.

Gorgeous George Galloway' s presence was all that was missing - or was it!?

 

[MikeWM]

Gorgeous George Galloway' s presence was all that was missing - or was it!?

Galloway has strongly been a supporter of the whole lockdown narrative, and very critical of those opposed. He's lost the respect of a lot of people as a result (myself included - I didn't always agree with him, but I found him a lot more interesting than most politicans, plus he's one of the very few good orators left in politics).

 

[Smidster]

Bear in mind the public are already growing sick and tired of this in increasing numbers, I really, truly cannot see the current level of measures being in place for that long.

You say that but, as a statistician, where is your evidence to back up your assertion?

All the evidence I see - both data and observations - is that people support a cautious approach and are basically getting on with life as best they can and while I am sure folks would prefer this wasn't happening there is nothing to suggest any great backlash and all the polling shows that things like masks retain public support.

Happy to look at evidence - but it needs to be more than "my social bubble agrees with me" or Piers Corbyn and a bunch of nutters got together to shout conspiracy nonsense.

 

[thejuggler]

That's obvious. But the point is that a large protest in London challenging the government line doesn't fit neatly with the mainstream media's unchallenging support for Project Fear.

A couple of thousand 'flat earthers' should never warrant MSM attention.

Our local city had an Extinction Rebellion event today. That wasn't on the main news either.

 

[Bikeman78]

I notice that there’s a small but growing number of people who are getting sick of restrictions. The comments sections of news articles has actually shifted entirely to I would say a majority anti-restriction. It’s reassuring to see, people are starting to grow sick of this and compliance is absolutely starting to fall, I think this may be the tipping point we need.

Cardiff city centre looked like a normal Saturday evening. I went for a ride on some 170s today. Trains are getting busier but still very quiet compared with the roads and Cardiff City centre. There were quite a lot of people on the trains going for a night out in Cardiff. At Pontyclun seven young ladies got on. Six of them squeezed on to four seats in the former first class section. The seventh plonked herself down on the seat opposite me; she did ask first. There were two security staff going through asking people to put on face masks. Everyone did so without any aggro but clearly several people wouldn't have bothered if they hadn't been asked.

 

[RomeoCharlie71]

all the polling shows that things like masks retain public support.

As I, and others, have explained before, those who support face coverings were wearing them pre-mandate.

You really can't draw conclusions from "polling", because in honesty, who actually has the time to fill these polls out? (I assume you're referring to the likes of YouGov, newspaper sites, etc.)

 

[DB]

As I, and others, have explained before, those who support face coverings were wearing them pre-mandate.

You really can't draw conclusions from "polling", because in honesty, who actually has the time to fill these polls out? (I assume you're referring to the likes of YouGov, newspaper sites, etc.)

All the pro-mask polls I've seen are very small sample sizes and/or done in a way or with an audience which will give the required answer!

 

[PHILIPE]

A couple of thousand 'flat earthers' should never warrant MSM attention.

Our local city had an Extinction Rebellion event today. That wasn't on the main news either.

The best thing is not to give them publicity

 

[Richard Scott]

Bear in mind the public are already growing sick and tired of this in increasing numbers, I really, truly cannot see the current level of measures being in place for that long.

I know I am. I cannot believe that so many so called intelligent people can't see this for what it is. We know so much more now, yes it does have risks but so does every activity in life. We can't carry on like we are for something that's as low risk as this virus. Before someone spouts off about killing granny if we're honest I expect most of the 40,000 who've died weren't far from death anyway (sounds callous may be but probably the truth). We have just got to get on with life for the sake of everyone, granny included.

 

[DB]

A couple of thousand 'flat earthers' should never warrant MSM attention.

So 'flat earther' = 'someone who has a different opinion to me', I assume?

Admittedly no group does themselves any favours by having David Icke as a speaker, but that doesn't mean that their point is invalid.

I know I am. I cannot believe that so many so called intelligent people can't see this for what it is. We know so much more now, yes it does have risks but so does every activity in life. We can't carry on like we are for something that's as low risk as this virus. Before someone spouts off about killing granny if we're honest I expect most of the 40,000 who've died weren't far from death anyway (sounds callous may be but probably the truth). We have just got to get on with life for the sake of everyone, granny included.

The fact that the excess deaths figure has been below the five year average for weeks now does strongly suggest that many of those who died back in the spring and early summer would probably have died within a few months even without this virus.

 

[thejuggler]

A 'flat earther' isn't someone who has a different opinion.

Too many people think Covid is a 'survive or die' illness. It isn't. Long term effects are still unknown. The cost to the NHS of long term effects could be billions

 

[Bikeman78]

I know I am. I cannot believe that so many so called intelligent people can't see this for what it is. We know so much more now, yes it does have risks but so does every activity in life. We can't carry on like we are for something that's as low risk as this virus. Before someone spouts off about killing granny if we're honest I expect most of the 40,000 who've died weren't far from death anyway (sounds callous may be but probably the truth). We have just got to get on with life for the sake of everyone, granny included.

I think people are increasingly going back to normal. I went out for dinner last week and it was pretty much the same as February. Only difference was the pointless plastic screen by the desk at the entrance. Funny how the staff are at risk when they welcome you but not when taking your order or serving the food!

 

[takno]

A 'flat earther' isn't someone who has a different opinion.

Then why bring them into the conversation? There were clearly plenty of people on the march who do believe some pretty wild and verifiably false stuff about the virus not existing or being caused by 5g, but there is no reason to believe they are also flat-earthers. There were also plenty of people who hold much more difficult-to-refute beliefs that the restrictions in place are somewhere between not worth the cost and counter-productive - no conspiracies, no flat earth, just protesting bad policy. You just used flat-earthers as shorthand in order to dismiss them without consideration

 

[DB]

A 'flat earther' isn't someone who has a different opinion.

Too many people think Covid is a 'survive or die' illness. It isn't. Long term effects are still unknown. The cost to the NHS of long term effects could be billions

But it's been around for nearly a year now, and it's from a family of viruses which are already well known. If there were significant long term effects (other than in rare cases) don't you think they would have been noticed sufficiently to have been widely reported by now? The media would love this as it would feed into their doom mongering so would certainly have reported anything along these lines.

 

[thejuggler]

UK exposure is far less than a year. Anyone hospitalised will be tracked for many years and patterns analysed.

Loss of smell was reported in April/May and eventually lonked to Covid,

This is now moving to people getting false smell and taste so bad they are unable to eat properly. That's a long term effect which wasn't expected, probably isn't fully understood, but could cost millions to research and understand.

The truth is virus won't go away because flat earthers are shouting in London.

 

[farleigh]

UK exposure is far less than a year. Anyone hospitalised will be tracked for many years and patterns analysed.

Loss of smell was reported in April/May and eventually lonked to Covid,

This is now moving to people getting false smell and taste so bad they are unable to eat properly. That's a long term effect which wasn't expected, probably isn't fully understood, but could cost millions to research and understand.

The truth is virus won't go away because flat earthers are shouting in London.

OK - so the virus has gone from a mass killer to one that might make my Prawn Cocktail crisps taste a bit funny.

Probably take my chances then...

 

[DB]

UK exposure is far less than a year. Anyone hospitalised will be tracked for many years and patterns analysed.

Loss of smell was reported in April/May and eventually lonked to Covid,

This is now moving to people getting false smell and taste so bad they are unable to eat properly. That's a long term effect which wasn't expected, probably isn't fully understood, but could cost millions to research and understand.

The truth is virus won't go away because flat earthers are shouting in London.

UK exposure is irrelevant, unless you are claiming that it affects people in this country differently to everywhere else in the world. It has been around now for nearly a year, as I said.

These issues you are mentioning have been reported very, very rarely, and do not justify scaremongering. Even the media haven't gone as far as trying to whip them up into major stories. Any viral infection can have long term effects, including common ones such as flu - but they tend to be rare.

The only point I agree with you on is that the virus won't go away. And given that it won't, we need to accept that society has to live with it and abandon these futile ideas of eliminating it in a short time period.

 

[Skimpot flyer]

There were clearly plenty of people on the march who do believe some pretty wild and verifiably false stuff about the virus not existing... There were also plenty of people who hold much more difficult-to-refute beliefs that the restrictions in place are somewhere between not worth the cost and counter-productive - no conspiracies, no flat earth, just protesting bad policy. You just used flat-earthers as shorthand in order to dismiss them without consideration

I was tempted to join this protest, until I read that David Icke was going to attend. People like me who are genuinely tired of these restrictions want to protest in a way that is peaceful and not linked to any conspiracy theories.
On seeing a live-stream of the event, however, I realised that those of us who ARE sick of the inept handling of this crisis should attend, if only to boost the numbers. How else might the government and media realise the Facebook Furloughs do not represent intelligent people?
This evening, I started regretting not attending, even if only because it would have been nice to be in London, surrounded by unmasked faces, of all faiths, creeds and colours, in close proximity*, with no thought of it seeming odd, as the screenshots from the post-demo walk to Downing Street show.

It’s a damning indictment of our government when something so mundane and commonplace only six months ago is now only experienced during a protest!! They need to be shown - because the mainstream media are not reporting conflicting views - how many people want them to put cancers, other treatable conditions, and the economy ahead of coronavirus in their skewed sense of priorities.

Politicians can be made to change course, if enough voices are raised. Look at what happened with the hated Community Charge, aka Poll Tax. Even Margaret Thatcher had to make a u-turn.

*and not have idiots leaping aside as you pass them.

 

[yorkie]

And I did look into it.
Low population density is part of it...

We've been through this before.

As I said to you last time (which was on Wednesday):

If you are going to make rural comparisons, compare rural areas of Sweden with rural areas of Britain.

If you are going to make urban comparisons, then compare Stockholm with cities in Britain.

Sweden resisted a lockdown, and its capital Stockholm is expected to reach 'herd immunity' in weeks

Sweden went against the grain by keeping public life as unrestricted as possible when the coronavirus hit. Now, it says its strategy appears to be working.

www.cnbc.com

The major part of Sweden’s 15,322 confirmed cases are in Stockholm and its surrounding areas, with very small incidences of the virus in the rest of Sweden — a country of around 10 million that has a low population density outside its urban hubs.

You claim others are lacking in facts; I'd argue the opposite is the case.

Long term effects are still unknown. The cost to the NHS of long term effects could be billions

And are the effects of lockdown measures / restrictions on our lives on education, mental health and livelihoods fully known?

What about the cost of long term effects of mental health issues and the physical health issues due to worsening the obesity crisis and the cancellation of many appointments (including cancer treatments) because hospitals would rather staff didn't see patients due to the risk of transmission of the virus?

Those are much more real and far more apparent than the more theoretical risks you talk about.

The argument that something is "unknown" is hardly sufficient justification to ruin the lives of many people.

These issues you are mentioning have been reported very, very rarely, and do not justify scaremongering. Even the media haven't gone as far as trying to whip them up into major stories. Any viral infection can have long term effects, including common ones such as flu - but they tend to be rare.

I don't think @thejuggler or anyone else who appears to be justifying severe restrictions on our lives is interested in the consequences of 'flu infections; only Covid19 infections matter, it seems.

The following 'flu complications appear be disregarded by the Covid-obsessed brigade and are not considered to be of any importance according to them:

https://www.webmd.com/cold-and-flu/flu-complications#1

What Are the Most Common Complications?

They include viral or bacterial pneumonia, dehydration, and ear infections and sinus infections, especially in children. The flu can worsen long-term medical conditions, like congestive heart failure, asthma, or diabetes.

You might also have muscle inflammation (myositis), problems with your central nervous system, and heart problems such as heart attacks, inflammation of the organ (myocarditis), and inflammation of the sac around it (pericarditis).

Who’s Most Likely to Have Flu Complications?

• Adults over 65
• Children ages 6 months to 4 years
• Nursing home residents
• Adults and children with heart or lung disease
• People with compromised immune systems (including people with HIV/AIDS)
• Pregnant women

However if anyone has any complications related to Covid19, even if it is a tiny minority of people, this warrants a MAJOR news story in the media, and is therefore deemed to be given as a reason why children should not be educated, and livelihoods must be destroyed.

Fortunately, an increasing proportion of the population is able to see through these misrepresentations.

 

[talldave]

Too many people think Covid is a 'survive or die' illness. It isn't. Long term effects are still unknown. The cost to the NHS of long term effects could be billions

Don’t worry those billions would be a drop in the ocean compared to the cost of Project Fear, in the case that the unknown effects turn out to not be nothing. We were already heading towards an NHS crisis thanks to obesity and associated problems. But nobody appeared to give a damn. Amazingly, along comes Covid and suddenly obesity is on the agenda.

 

[Skimpot flyer]

I see the Boris Broadcasting Corporation is now acknowledging Saturday’s protests in London, Berlin and other cities.
If they are saying that ‘thousands’ attended the Trafalgar Square rally, you can be sure it was closer to 9,000 than 2k. Certainly seemed like the greater of those two estimates from the live-stream I watched

Germany coronavirus: Hundreds arrested in German 'anti-corona' protests https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-53959552

 

[Yew]

There is practically zero chance of there being no restrictions at Christmas and frankly I think people are being naive to think otherwise (or have any faith in Johnson but that is a different story)

For that to happen you need either a vaccine deployed at scale, a highly effective treatment or the virus to no longer pose a threat (e.g due to herd immunity / mutation)

My hope is that we pretty much stay as we are for the next few months and look to make changes next Spring

That's the thing, if we weren't going for this "not quite elimination" approach, then we would be done by now. Given the increasing body of evidence around cross-immunity, antibody studies, and t-cells, I would put a reasonable amount of money on some parts of the UK already having herd immunity in a meaningful sense. I (reluctantly) support social distancing measures to stop the NHS being overwhelmed, but that simply isn't the case currently.

 

[Bantamzen]

A 'flat earther' isn't someone who has a different opinion.

Too many people think Covid is a 'survive or die' illness. It isn't. Long term effects are still unknown. The cost to the NHS of long term effects could be billions

I hate to be the one to break it to you, but restrictions & lockdowns have cost the economy (the thing that funds the NHS) hundreds of billions.

 

[AM9]

All the pro-mask polls I've seen are very small sample sizes and/or done in a way or with an audience which will give the required answer!

Clearly you must have evidence of that claim.

 

[DB]

Clearly you must have evidence of that claim.

Look at the polls yourself!

There does seem an emerging theme on here of mask enthusiasts asking questions like this and avoiding engaging with the actual issues.

 

[Skimpot flyer]

Clearly you must have evidence of that claim.

This is the new normal, remember. Evidence is not required, even when inflicting unnecessary face-coverings on people

 

[Howardh]

Matt Hancock is already speculating that measures are likely to continue beyond Christmas. I've also heard that some police forces are already bracing themselves for the impact the measures will bring on New Years Eve. It'll be a very interesting scene on Trafalgar Square when 2021 arrives.

CJ

I don't think I want to celebrate the arrival 0f 2021 if it's going to be as bad as 2020.

 

[AM9]

Look at the polls yourself!

Well the problem I might have there is that same that you had:

All the pro-mask polls I've seen are very small sample sizes and/or done in a way or with an audience which will give the required answer!

So where should I look?

... There does seem an emerging theme on here of mask enthusiasts asking questions like this and avoiding engaging with the actual issues.

What's that got to do with me??

 

[Skimpot flyer]

Irrespective of which side of the argument people are on in regard to social distancing, what is not in dispute is that some businesses are simply not viable if they cannot operate at full capacity.
This trampoline centre is closing, and many special needs kids will now lose something that brought a little exercise and fun into their lives

Owen, 19, has autism, ADHD and behavioural and learning difficulties.

Rhianydd said: “The special needs community will really feel the loss of Sky High.

“We always used to travel over to Peacehaven for it. We’d hire it as a group and it was fantastic.

“When your child has learning difficulties, it can be difficult to get to know people at the school gate and it was an opportunity to meet parents and for young people to get together in the holidays.

“There was also a sensory need – bouncing helps Owen self-regulate and get some energy out because he’s constantly on the go.

Popular trampolining centre closes for good amid coronavirus crisis

A TRAMPOLINING centre is shutting down permanently due to the pressures of the coronavirus crisis.

www.theargus.co.uk