How much was EU funding part of the HS2 business case?

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33Hz

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Seems like many HS routes receive EU funding. How much of that was planned to be part of HS2?
 
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route:oxford

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I wouldn't worry about it, the economy will tank and there will be no need for HS2

It'll work the other way.

With Scotland remaining in Europe, there'll be bucket loads of European funding available to connect Edinburgh and Glasgow with the channel tunnel.
 

HSTEd

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Assuming Scotland stays in the EU and goes independent - which is not actually a forgone conclusion despite what Sturgeon may claim.
And I think the EU has other economic issues beyond throwing money at a marginally useful lifeline to Scotland.
 

najaB

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Assuming Scotland stays in the EU and goes independent - which is not actually a forgone conclusion despite what Sturgeon may claim.
Scottish independence isn't a foregone conclusion but it is more likely than at any time in the last century.
 

edwin_m

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I wouldn't be so certain about that, HS2 will stimulate the economy and probably won't be axed.

As with so many things, we just don't know. Currently the uncertainty is hitting the markets and the pound and may damage the Government's credit rating and therefore increase its cost to borrow for investment. They have been trying to cut day to day spending for the last six years and most of the easy cuts have gone, so if further deep cuts are considered necessary in response then it is possible that some of the much-vaunted infrastructure investment will be at least paused. This happened to Crossrail in 2010, when the programme was revised to deliver more slowly but save £1bn, on the ground (probably wrong as it turned out) that the recession would mean the the extra capacity was not needed until later.

If in the longer term it turns out that the economy is significantly smaller, as predicted by all the experts then some of these projects could be cut entirely as there will be less need for travel and less money to pay for transport infrastructure. But then again, nobody believes experts these days.
 

The Ham

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HS2 will be fine it'll just be funded by part of the £350 million a week that well no longer have to pay to the EU, I'm sure the NHS can spare a bit can't it Mr Farage? It'll only need £35 million of that. <D
 
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I wouldn't be so certain about that, HS2 will stimulate the economy and probably won't be axed.

Agreed if the economy tips back into recession then we will need shovel ready infrastructure schemes to stimulate the economy and HS2 will certainly create thousands of construction and engineering jobs.
 

Harbornite

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Agreed if the economy tips back into recession then we will need shovel ready infrastructure schemes to stimulate the economy and HS2 will certainly create thousands of construction and engineering jobs.


Very much so, as proven in Nazi Germany during the 1930's with the Autobahns.
 

SpacePhoenix

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Could it result in the electric spine project being brought forward if the economy ends up going into recession?
 

edwin_m

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Depends whether the government chooses, and is able, to spend its way out of recession or to adopt some other approach.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Very much so, as proven in Nazi Germany during the 1930's with the Autobahns.

Or indeed by several of the Big Four railways in the UK on developing new infrastructure during the same period.
 

deltic

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Seems like many HS routes receive EU funding. How much of that was planned to be part of HS2?

The financial case for HS2 sets out options for EU funding without specifying any expected level however it notes that the HS1 project was awarded €256.5 million funding from the EU TEN-T programme
 

Grimsby town

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I expect a referendum on Hs2 soon. After all we've already given allowed the public to vote on something many people dont understand and don't have the time to research. Why not do it again?
 

The Planner

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Why would they do that? When in the past has there been any sort of referendum on a major infrastructure project?
 

Darandio

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I expect a referendum on Hs2 soon. After all we've already given allowed the public to vote on something many people dont understand and don't have the time to research. Why not do it again?

Yet they have had seven years to research HS2 should they have wished to do so.

Don't talk daft.
 

Philip Phlopp

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Could it result in the electric spine project being brought forward if the economy ends up going into recession?

It could have the opposite impact, quite a number of EU companies (and the obvious Swiss company) involved in electrification, and we're woefully short of equipment and manpower as it is.
 

LNW-GW Joint

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Agreed if the economy tips back into recession then we will need shovel ready infrastructure schemes to stimulate the economy and HS2 will certainly create thousands of construction and engineering jobs.

If you look at the short list of HS2 contractors, you will see it includes a good number of continental firms:
•Align Joint Venture (Bouygues, VolkerFitzpatrick, Sir Robert McAlpine)
•ASL (Acciona Infraestructuras, John Sisk & Son, Lagan)
•BBV (Balfour Beatty, VINCI BeMo)
•Catalyst (Bechtel)
•CEK (Carillion, Eiffage, Kier)
•Fusion (Morgan Sindall, BAM Nuttall, Ferrovial Agroman)
•LFM (Laing O’Rourke, FCC Construccion, J. Murphy and Sons Limited
•Momentum Infrastructure (Dragados, HOCHTIEF, GallifordTry)
•SCS (Skanska, Costain, STRABAG)

Something else that does not fit with "close the borders".
There isn't a single British-only contractor.
Among other things, the expertise deliberately includes firms who have worked on high speed rail construction in Europe.
https://www.gov.uk/government/news/...s-shortlisted-for-major-engineering-contracts

Just imagine trying to close a contract with any of these firms in the current climate.

Consider also the case of GW electrification.
The prime contractor, Amey, is owned by Ferrovial of Spain (as is Heathrow Airport).
There is significant Spanish involvement in the electrification project both from Ferrovial and their partner Inabensa.
Some route through the EU exit has to be found which does not threaten this project (and many others).
 
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455driver

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Just imagine trying to close a contract with any of these firms in the current climate.
Yeah, they wont want any of our 'dirty' English pound notes will they? :roll:

What exactly has changed for these contracts by our impending exit from Europe?

These contracts will be signed, the pound will ebb and flow like it normally does, new trade agreements on similar terms to now will be signed and nothing much will change.
 

najaB

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What exactly has changed for these contracts by our impending exit from Europe?
So far, nothing. But things that will probably change over the lifetime of the contracts include: freedom of movement of labour, tariffs on materials, regulatory arrangements, the tax environment, the cost of money, rules around ownership of joint ventures...
 

LNW-GW Joint

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What exactly has changed for these contracts by our impending exit from Europe?

If we sign up to the single market, then nothing much will change.
But this is not at all certain, and in the meantime the contractors will pass the risk/cost on to the DfT.
At some point in maybe 2019, work permits will be needed if we are not in the single market (also for UK people working in the EU).
But if we stay in the single market, Farage & co will shout and scream about "uncontrolled migration".
It may not effect current projects much, but an 8-year HS2 contract is very much in the firing line.
 

bluenoxid

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Not sure I follow the logic there...

The current Conservative administration is a reluctant supporter of HS2. Some politicians are lesser advocates and in a Tory leadership race, this could set HS2 back!
 

PR1Berske

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HS2 being axed would make this very bruised Remain voter outrageously overjoyed.
 

Trog

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HS2 being axed would make this very bruised Remain voter outrageously overjoyed.

Yes I suppose if Scotland decides to go it alone, we could save expense by cutting back West Coast express services to the large northern cities say Liverpool, Warrington and Manchester. With just a local service north to Carlisle, to connect with any Scotrail services, we would then not need so much capacity further south and as you say no HS2. <D
 
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If post Brexit Scotland does remain in the EU (not certain but more likely than not) and a special arrangement has to made for Northern Ireland to save the Good Friday agreement, I think EU infrastructure funds will be made available to improve Scotland - Ireland, Ireland to rest of EU, and Scotland to rest of EU transport links, just as the EU supported the A55 North Wales Expressway and other similar projects in the past. Interesting to speculate whether they will then fund projects to improve links which seek to bypass the non-Member state (England) to avoid passport and customs controls and a leakage of funding out of EU.

While the Ireland - Rest of EU and Scotland - Rest of EU links must be either marine or air transport based, the Scotland Ireland link could raise the interesting prospect of a tunnel under the North Channel linking Stranraer to Larne or Belfast.

The other possibility is that the English Government will agree to the running of passenger and freight traffic through the Channel Tunnel and over the English rail network to Scotland or to the Welsh ports without passport or Customs controls. This may mean will need to plan for trains running over the WCML and ECML non stop from Scotland to France, but who would then pay for any necessary infrastructure upgrade?

It is interesting to speculate but be careful what you wish for!
 
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