How often are quiet coaches actually quiet?

[MCSHF007]

Such are available in Japan, where the norm is quiet coaches, and the other coach is silent.

Absolute perfection!

Would never work here though due to the "entitled" brigade.

 

[Parjon]

Some years ago I was on a GWR service in the quiet coach where someone was having a "domestic" on the phone.He got louder and louder ignoring the cries of hush from fellow passengers. Eventually he shouted down the phone "Am I being unreasonable?". The whole carriage shouted yes and he promptly shut up.

Quiet coach or no, I join in with the conversation if it seems I'm included by default. It seems to get the message across.

As for the lunks playing music on their phones out loud, or the idiots plaguing neighbours with moronic communist party tic-tac videos, I've found they're not so keen on playing things out loud if you start playing your own content besides them at whatever volume suits you.

If they want a free for all, it's only fair they learn what that actually plays out like I say.

 

[TurbineEnginee]

This sort of rubbish always seems to come up when quiet coaches are discussed. Just because phones and playing music are the examples specifically mentioned it doesn't mean every other type of noise is allowed.

It's almost as if certain people pretend they don't understand what the definition of the word "quiet" is.

I would guess there is practically nobody interested in a section where no phones or music is allowed but all other forms of noise are welcomed, there is however an endless supply of selfish ***** who believe they should be allowed do whatever they please at all times.

I’m confident we didn’t have quiet coaches before we had mobile phones and portable music. I think we’re stretching the definition here to things we would like them to be for.

Personally I would vote for the earlier suggestion of a noisy coach instead of a quiet coach.

Traveling with those people that some folk seem to think shouldn’t be allowed out of the house, young children, can be a miserable experience when it encounters folk who would prefer they didn’t exist.

As every parent knows, children don’t have an off switch and they pretty much all become annoyed or excited with some frequency.

 

[MCSHF007]

As every parent knows, children don’t have an off switch and they pretty much all become annoyed or excited with some frequency.

I personally don't like children and would prefer not to share a space with them. But I do understand/sympathise (provided that the said annoyance/excitement is not audible in the Quiet Coach)

 

[bramling]

I’m confident we didn’t have quiet coaches before we had mobile phones and portable music. I think we’re stretching the definition here to things we would like them to be for.

Personally I would vote for the earlier suggestion of a noisy coach instead of a quiet coach.

Traveling with those people that some folk seem to think shouldn’t be allowed out of the house, young children, can be a miserable experience when it encounters folk who would prefer they didn’t exist.

As every parent knows, children don’t have an off switch and they pretty much all become annoyed or excited with some frequency.

I think most people are reasonable enough to know that children are sometimes going to be intrusive, especially very young ones. However by the same token it’s reasonable to expect the adults to make some effort to mitigate against this, one example of which would be making the effort *not* to sit in a quiet carriage if the children are likely to make a lot of noise (which not all children do). What is more annoying is when the adults make no effort at all to control things, or as can happen in many cases be noisier themselves than the children.

The absolute scourge nowadays is the increasing trend to play music or films out loud. There’s absolutely no reason to do this. If everyone did it then things would be a nightmare.

It’s a bit like dog owners who fail to control their dogs. As anyone who runs knows, it’s not uncommon to have dogs chase, jump or even snap. It’s not fair to take this out on the animal who knows no different, however the owner is a different matter entirely.

 

[TurbineEnginee]

I think most people are reasonable enough to know that children are sometimes going to be intrusive, especially very young ones. However by the same token it’s reasonable to expect the adults to make some effort to mitigate against this, one example of which would be making the effort *not* to sit in a quiet carriage if the children are likely to make a lot of noise (which not all children do). What is more annoying is when the adults make no effort at all to control things, or as can happen in many cases be noisier themselves than the children.

The absolute scourge nowadays is the increasing trend to play music or films out loud. There’s absolutely no reason to do this. If everyone did it then things would be a nightmare.

It’s a bit like dog owners who fail to control their dogs. As anyone who runs knows, it’s not uncommon to have dogs chase, jump or even snap. It’s not fair to take this out on the animal who knows no different, however the owner is a different matter entirely.

I would never sit in a quiet carriage with my young children.

There are some passengers who are going to make noise. When I travel with my young children then we are among them. I will make every effort, for example bringing toys. It is difficult for me to predict when an argument about who has which toy will emerge, and exactly how long it will take me to find a creative way to diffuse it short of whacking them upside the head which I won’t do.

I get the impression that the minority of passengers create a noise problem.

And also that a larger portion of customers may be upset by noise.

If this is the case then offering noisy customers a place of safety might be a better option.

 

[Flying Snail]

I would never sit in a quiet carriage with my young children.

There are some passengers who are going to make noise. When I travel with my young children then we are among them. I will make every effort, for example bringing toys. It is difficult for me to predict when an argument about who has which toy will emerge, and exactly how long it will take me to find a creative way to diffuse it short of whacking them upside the head which I won’t do.

I get the impression that the minority of passengers create a noise problem.

And also that a larger portion of customers may be upset by noise.

If this is the case then offering noisy customers a place of safety might be a better option.

The problem is that a significant portion of the noisemakers are not the sort to abide by using a noisy coach any more than they currently stay out of the quiet coach.

In fact I have come to the conclusion that a proportion of them seek out the quiet areas so they can enjoy their noise without being impinged on by other noisy passengers.

 

[bramling]

In fact I have come to the conclusion that a proportion of them seek out the quiet areas so they can enjoy their noise without being impinged on by other noisy passengers.

That’s something I’ve noticed, though I’m not sure whether it’s deliberate, or just a total lack of self-awareness. Certainly the Covid response seems to have drained away self-awareness and consideration for others from a good proportion of the population.

I’m still reeling from the mother who thought it was perfectly acceptable to let her kid have fun at the swimming pool by deliberately seeing if it could jump in on top of people as they were swimming past. Utterly unbelievable really, but about typical for the dumb zombie bubble some people seem to live in post 2020.

 

[kristiang85]

The idea of a quiet coach should be what it says though. Noise from phone calls is no louder than people having loud conversations.

Conversing with the person next to you is fine as long as it's reasonably quiet.

Noise from phones is much more irritating than natural noise - there's something about phone speakers that grates my soul.

But agreed, quite coaches are fine for normal conversation but not loud noises.

 

[PaulHarding150]

Personally I'd rather, on long trains like Pendolinos, see a dedicated family coach where family-related noise e.g. playing stuff out loud on tablets is actively permitted, with e.g. more tables and maybe a play area. That would contain it more voluntarily, as most of this sort of nuisance is families.

People still wouldn’t find it/knew it existed in the same way most people don’t know a quiet carriage exists.

 

[Master29]

The problem is that a significant portion of the noisemakers are not the sort to abide by using a noisy coach any more than they currently stay out of the quiet coach.

In fact I have come to the conclusion that a proportion of them seek out the quiet areas so they can enjoy their noise without being impinged on by other noisy passengers.

It's what comes with an entitled and narcissist section of the population I`m afraid and age is no definer either. It's like asking the rest of the coach "do you want to hear my life story...You do..Well here goes".

 

[subk2010]

I was on a Chiltern Train to London one time in a Quiet Zone. A lady kept facetiming with her boyfriend and played Tiktok very loudly. I politely ask her if she could turn off the speaker several times. She was very rude and told me she knew, but still went her own way. I was very speechless, and I really hope there will be some strict regulations to deal with these people who don't follow the rules.

Another story. A long time ago, when I was travelling on S-tog at Quiet Zone in Copenhagen, I cleared my throat for several times. An old man sitting a row away from me asked me to get out since this is a quite zone. Can't say if this is related to racism, but it does seem pretty speechless too.

 

[SussexSeagull]

I think at the end of the day it is public transport and people should be realistic in their expectations of noise levels. A lot of the need for quiet carriages would be removed if people behaved themselves and didn't do things like play music not using headphones and didn't shout at each other and they only really have a place on trains with plenty of space so people can have a choice. Sorry, but if people are standing then all bets are off the same way as first class should be opened to all ticket holders.

Also they are quiet and not silent carriages. People should be allowed to have a conversation at normal speaking levels.

As for mobile phone/video calls people should really learn to read the room/carriage. If it is a busy carriage with plenty of talking then probably fair enough but I have been on early morning trains where people are half asleep and all you can hear is one person on their phone.

 

[Bikeman78]

As for the lunks playing music on their phones out loud, or the idiots plaguing neighbours with moronic communist party tic-tac videos, I've found they're not so keen on playing things out loud if you start playing your own content besides them at whatever volume suits you.

A slipping class 37 at full blast ought to do the trick! 37405 Ystrad Mynach to Hengoed springs to mind.

 

[TPO]

Quiet coaches are too often populated by stressed out people, whose 'tutting', 'glancing', 'groaning' and 'moaning' irritate everybody else and not the person(s) who irritates them. I regularly travel with an autistic person who finds the behaviour of the these people far more difficult to deal with than the regular noise created by passengers.

This autistic person finds the noise made by others (especially phones/Tablets on "speaker", loud one-sided phone conversations and leaky headphones) is bad, equally stressful is the lack of persons following the rules. It says "no mobile phones" so surely an adult can manage without their phone for a short time? Especially when text is an option (or going to the vestibules).

I get the impression from reading this that people expect the "quiet" coach to be one where there is NO noise, no conversations, or anything and to be totally silent. I always understood that it was only mobile phones and listening to music/sounds without headphones that was banned.

I don't think most people do, but there is a big difference between using mobile devices in a way which impacts others and silence. Unfortunately a large proportion of the population appears unable to live their life without a constant stream of noise into their ears (increasingly with speakers not earphones). Sad really, never to hear birdsong or appreciate the contemplation of the world around you due to being wrapped up in your own private world of noise.

I think the railway needs more of this kind of "house rules" signage generally. Conflict between passengers is avoided by clearly stating expectations.

For instance:
"If the reservation displays are not working, seat reservations do not apply"
"If there is a dispute on the position of the window, it should be closed"*
"Mobile telephones must not be used to make calls in the quiet coach, and all devices with speakers must be muted"
"Music, television programmes or any other audio from electronic devices must not be played out loud in any part of the train"
Etc.

* This one is common in France.

Agree. The march of "me me me" tech plus the COVID pandemic seems to have de-socialized a significant proportion of the population who even if they do know how to behave, choose not to because they don't give 2 hoots that their antisocial behaviour might adversely impact someone else.

This sort of rubbish always seems to come up when quiet coaches are discussed. Just because phones and playing music are the examples specifically mentioned it doesn't mean every other type of noise is allowed.

It's almost as if certain people pretend they don't understand what the definition of the word "quiet" is.

I would guess there is practically nobody interested in a section where no phones or music is allowed but all other forms of noise are welcomed, there is however an endless supply of selfish ***** who believe they should be allowed do whatever they please at all times.

I do think some DON'T know what quiet means. They live their life to a constant sound-track- in their own little bubble of noise, impervious to the world around them. If you sit and people-watch, it's fascinating how may people do that. When I was a bairn, we had a grandparent who always had the TV on in the house "for company" as they seemed to need artificial noise. The big difference is that in those days, the TV was big and heavy and the speakers of limited power so the noise bubble stayed at home and was limited in volume even there, whereas these days "sound systems" can deafen the neighbours and portable noise is cheap and so commonplace (I am old enough to remember "ghetto blasters" and the coming of the Sony Walkman....). So that portable noise goes everywhere with them.

And rightly so: the inconsiderate behaviour of other people is regularly cited as a reason not to take public transport and to drive your own car instead. Quiet coaches are a little step towards providing a more competitive product in this way.

The thing is, most of the population *don’t* use trains, and a good proportion of the relatively few that do only do so because it is the most realistic way of making their journey (for example a London commute). One has to ask the question as to why most people choose not to make a journey by train, when in theory it should be a pretty attractive mode of transport.

One of the biggest turn-offs is the behaviour of others, and this is something which has got a lot worse over recent times. Quiet carriages are a relatively easy way to attempt to deal with this, compartments are another way albeit more difficult. I’m not sure that desiring a peaceful journey is living in the past, for me it’s a perfectly reasonable objective, which most of the population already get when they take the car.

The alternative is to go down the road where rail travel is a total distress purchase. We seem to be pretty well on the road to reaching that with the way the service has been wrecked in various ways since 2019. I can well see trains becoming like buses, a mode of transport which has for all my lifetime had an image problem, as well as being an irrelevance for most of the population.

I do a number of journeys where I could get the train or take the car. Invariably when I am wavering and consider the train, I remember the noise and behaviours on many trains and so take the car. [Or I find a way of doing the work without travelling, Teams has transformed my life for the better in that respect. I still do site work, but not now routinely doing a 7-hour trip for a 2-3 hour meeting.]

I think most people are reasonable enough to know that children are sometimes going to be intrusive, especially very young ones. However by the same token it’s reasonable to expect the adults to make some effort to mitigate against this, one example of which would be making the effort *not* to sit in a quiet carriage if the children are likely to make a lot of noise (which not all children do). What is more annoying is when the adults make no effort at all to control things, or as can happen in many cases be noisier themselves than the children.

The absolute scourge nowadays is the increasing trend to play music or films out loud. There’s absolutely no reason to do this. If everyone did it then things would be a nightmare.

It’s a bit like dog owners who fail to control their dogs. As anyone who runs knows, it’s not uncommon to have dogs chase, jump or even snap. It’s not fair to take this out on the animal who knows no different, however the owner is a different matter entirely.

Indeed. There's a world of difference between generally well-behaved children being exuberant vs parents who use the tablet-on-loud as a babysitter so they can continue to watch TikTok (or whatever other social media thing they are addicted to).

That’s something I’ve noticed, though I’m not sure whether it’s deliberate, or just a total lack of self-awareness. Certainly the Covid response seems to have drained away self-awareness and consideration for others from a good proportion of the population.

I’m still reeling from the mother who thought it was perfectly acceptable to let her kid have fun at the swimming pool by deliberately seeing if it could jump in on top of people as they were swimming past. Utterly unbelievable really, but about typical for the dumb zombie bubble some people seem to live in post 2020.

It's a lack of socialisation (don't know, or do know and don't care) plus shame has largely gone from our society and that has consequences.

Much as the concept of ID cards and "social credit" chills my soul, I begin to wonder if in an environment of "always on" social media addiction and immediate shameless self-gratification, the only way to maintain a consistent level of pro-social behaviour is the use of social credit. I truly hope not.

TPO

 

[Meglos]

When building (or refurbishing) Quiet coaches.
1) Remove any WiFi from the Quiet coach
2) Include a fine copper mesh in the windows, and around the the ceiling/floor (behind any fascia), to create a Faraday Cage.

Although it won't stop the playing of pre-installed music, it will prevent phone calls, and video/music streaming. Anyone who needs to make/receive a call can then go into the vestibule to do so.

 

[Silenos]

When building (or refurbishing) Quiet coaches.
1) Remove any WiFi from the Quiet coach
2) Include a fine copper mesh in the windows, and around the the ceiling/floor (behind any fascia), to create a Faraday Cage.

Although it won't stop the playing of pre-installed music, it will prevent phone calls, and video/music streaming. Anyone who needs to make/receive a call can then go into the vestibule to do so.

this!

The TOCs are not in my experience willing to enforce the restrictions (and if the train is DOO there probably won’t be anyone around to do so), so you need to design them in (or lose the Quiet Coach) idea altogether.

 

[Deepgreen]

Increasingly not. The idea either needs to be dropped entirely or there need to be clear "house rules" displayed on what means quiet and these need to be proactively enforced by staff.

I remember being on a Swiss train in 2008 and my friend and I were talking very quietly to each other in what turned out to be a quiet coach. After a while we were asked by a passenger, politely, not to talk! I was quite startled because our conversation was very low key and virtually murmuring, but was also impressed at the interpretation of a quiet coach's rules. Here, it is almost universally ignored, partly, I suspect, because the signage is so pathetic and its enforcement is virtually non-existant.

 

[Hadders]

I do generally try and sit in the Quiet coach if I'm travelling alone on a long distance service.

They are quiet coaches not silent coaches so there will be some noise but it should be less than in a non-quiet coech. They key differences for me should be mobile phone use and personal devices on silent, not loud speaker mode.

They work best on long distance trains, with 7+ cars and where the Quiet coach os at the end of the train so minimise people walking through the train.

Quiet coaches work best when they are self policed. On several occasions I've pointed out to people in quiet coaches making phone calls or playing music on loudspeaker that they are in a quiet coach and should move. On one occasion a very loud family of chavs got on a LNER train at York doing to Doncaster. I called them out for being in the quiet coach and got a round of applause from others in the vicinity.

 

[Peter0124]

When building (or refurbishing) Quiet coaches.
1) Remove any WiFi from the Quiet coach
2) Include a fine copper mesh in the windows, and around the the ceiling/floor (behind any fascia), to create a Faraday Cage.

Although it won't stop the playing of pre-installed music, it will prevent phone calls, and video/music streaming. Anyone who needs to make/receive a call can then go into the vestibule to do so.

Disagree here, how are we supposed to do online work in the quiet coach without internet signal?
It also won't prevent people watching videos because I'd imagine most download theirs before travel.

 

[Meglos]

Disagree here, how are we supposed to do online work in the quiet coach without internet signal?

I do agree that is a bit draconian. The solution is to go down the path increasingly being rolled out by the aviation industry, which blocks voice/messaging calls but allows e-mail and surfing (blocking streaming).

 

[gazzaa2]

It's impossible for most people to stay quiet these days so quiet coaches are a waste of time (unless it's genuinely enforced).

 

[Hadders]

It's impossible for most people to stay quiet these days so quiet coaches are a waste of time (unless it's genuinely enforced).

The morning peak services on the Great Northern outer suburban routes are highly civilised. Anyone making a phone call risks a stare from their fellow passengers, making calls just isn't done

 

[Retorus]

I'm still irritated by a 'lout'. Only me in the Quiet Coach- he gets in, gets loudly on the phone. I 'chance my arm' by pointing to the sign; response a round of invective and if I'm bothered why don't I move. A lot to be said for the quiet life, indeed life. No-one, including crew, obliged to put their life on the line.

I'd have asked him politely rather than dismissively pointing to the sign to be fair.

 

[bramling]

Agree. The march of "me me me" tech plus the COVID pandemic seems to have de-socialized a significant proportion of the population who even if they do know how to behave, choose not to because they don't give 2 hoots that their antisocial behaviour might adversely impact someone else.

It's a lack of socialisation (don't know, or do know and don't care) plus shame has largely gone from our society and that has consequences.

Much as the concept of ID cards and "social credit" chills my soul, I begin to wonder if in an environment of "always on" social media addiction and immediate shameless self-gratification, the only way to maintain a consistent level of pro-social behaviour is the use of social credit. I truly hope not.

The point about lack of socialisation is, IMO, well made. It’s a bit like dogs who start snarling with they encounter other dogs on walk, a lack of proper socialisation.

I’d put it down to two things. Firstly the way a proportion of the population started behaving like truant schoolchildren during the Covid lockdowns, and not helped by the way the way the whole thing was handled in an infantile manner by the government.

Then the way communication has changed since Covid. Working in workplaces was a good way of forcing people to have to interact with others in a civilised way, even with people with whom they might have disagreed with or disliked. The rise of working from home has essentially stifled this development for some people, not helped by certain forms of social media essentially being like an echo chamber.

In essence we have probably knocked a few years off the maturity age of the population, so no wonder we’re now seeing problems in many spheres of everyday life. Oh, and not forgetting a government that have also carried on like feral children, so not exactly setting an example in terms of upholding standards of behaviour and decency.

As usual it’s only still a minority of people, but by goodness do a small minority of people cause a disproportionate share of problems.

 

[cuccir]

The Azuma quiet coaches are far too subtly signed to be noticed. I commute with LNER and usually choose coach H, and it was well over 6 months of travelling before I noticed that this was a quiet coach. There is no reason for a casual traveller to see the branding.

 

[philosopher]

This autistic person finds the noise made by others (especially phones/Tablets on "speaker", loud one-sided phone conversations and leaky headphones) is bad, equally stressful is the lack of persons following the rules. It says "no mobile phones" so surely an adult can manage without their phone for a short time? Especially when text is an option (or going to the vestibules).



I don't think most people do, but there is a big difference between using mobile devices in a way which impacts others and silence. Unfortunately a large proportion of the population appears unable to live their life without a constant stream of noise into their ears (increasingly with speakers not earphones). Sad really, never to hear birdsong or appreciate the contemplation of the world around you due to being wrapped up in your own private world of noise.

People I find tend to talk louder during phone conversations then they would in face to face conversations, perhaps because they are concerned the person on the other end will not be able hear due to poor reception unless they speak loudly. On a train, if there are two people opposite you talking, usually I find I can’t hear what they are saying, however if someone is having a phone call, I usually can.

When a conversation is loud enough that I am able to hear what they are saying is when I find it generally becomes irritating.

 

[bramling]

People I find tend to talk louder during phone conversations then they would in face to face conversations, perhaps because they are concerned the person on the other end will not be able hear due to poor reception unless they speak loudly. On a train, if there are two people opposite you talking, usually I find I can’t hear what they are saying, however if someone is having a phone call, I usually can.

When a conversation is loud enough that I am able to hear what they are saying is when I find it generally becomes irritating.

It doesn’t help there seems to be a correlation between the people with the loudest voices also having the most annoying voices, and also talking the most annoying inane rubbish. Again this takes us back to lack of self-awareness.

 

[Tester]

It doesn’t help there seems to be a correlation between the people with the loudest voices also having the most annoying voices, and also talking the most annoying inane rubbish. Again this takes us back to lack of self-awareness.

Definitely

It seems to be a rule that the volume of a phone conversation held in public is in inverse proportion to the importance of the subject matter.

 

[geoffk]

Quiet coaches were introduced to keep mobile phone & noise from devices to a minimum. Was nothing to do with conversation between passengers.

Personally I’d get rid of them as they are more trouble than they are worth particularly for the poor guard & onboard crew who have to police or get involved with petty quarrels.

In Denmark it was pointed out to me that the quiet coach meant "no talking". My mate and I were just talking quietly and had the sign pointed out by another passenger.