HS1 Closed - Eurostar

[Cloud Strife]

There are no circumstances in which a Schengen stamp can be waived. Even in countries allowing UK citizens to use e-gates the passport must be stamped as well.

The requirement to stamp is not absolute. It should be done, but it is not an absolute requirement, and this is borne out by the fact that some Schengen countries still do not systematically stamp all third country nationals on entry into Schengen. Frankfurt Airport was/is one of the worst for this, but there are other places too where they simply don't bother stamping people from Western countries.

UK took a pragmatic approach and designed the controls around the art of the possible e.g. no stamping. Schengen did not, hence the problems.

No, all the controls related to the Channel Tunnel were designed for a past in which systematic stamping wasn't really required. St Pancras was designed in the atmosphere where most travellers needed a simple visual check, and scanning of passports on exit (from Schengen) wasn't a thing. By the time it opened, things had started to change, but even in 2019, France still wasn't systematically checking travellers on entry/exit from Schengen to the UK.

The problem is really that the Channel Tunnel was conceived in an era where passport controls were thought to be likely to end. In 1986, the Schengen Agreement had been signed, and the Single European Act was being negotiated. Passport controls among EEC members were becoming increasingly light, and if you look back at historical news articles on the topic, it was clear that at least the 1973 EEC members would have full freedom of movement by the mid 1990s.

So, I think we can forgive the Channel Tunnel infrastructure designers for not really anticipating a future in which there would be a hard border between the UK and France. The shuttles between Folkestone and Calais were meant to be 'hop on, hop off', and the original check-in booths were even called 'toll booths'. If you look at the design of the booths here: https://www.google.com/maps/@51.093...e0!5s20090101T000000!7i13312!8i6656?entry=ttu you can observe two rows of red displays. These were originally used to calculate the fare for travel, in line with the original philosophy. You can see this also here, on the French side: https://www.google.com/maps/@50.939...e0!5s20160601T000000!7i13312!8i6656?entry=ttu where the word "Toll" is used.

So if you look at the problems that Eurostar has with frontier controls, it should've been a non-issue. Eurostar wasn't designed for juxtaposed controls at the beginning, hence the lack of 'escape routes' because they simply didn't need it. It's also why Gare du Nord and others have a lack of space, because it wasn't intended for the station to feature two sets of controls.

You would also have the issue of only being able to access the terminal loops from the tunnel itself. A train trapped at Frethun would need to run to Cheriton to return.

I've always wondered why the loops weren't constructed in such a way that it would allow for trains to return without passing through the tunnel.

 

[zwk500]

The shuttles between Folkestone and Calais were meant to be 'hop on, hop off', and the original check-in booths were even called 'toll booths'. If you look at the design of the booths here: https://www.google.com/maps/@51.093...e0!5s20090101T000000!7i13312!8i6656?entry=ttu you can observe two rows of red displays. These were originally used to calculate the fare for travel, in line with the original philosophy. You can see this also here, on the French side: https://www.google.com/maps/@50.939...e0!5s20160601T000000!7i13312!8i6656?entry=ttu where the word "Toll" is used.

That's really interesting!

I've always wondered why the loops weren't constructed in such a way that it would allow for trains to return without passing through the tunnel.

I imagine the cost (and land) couldn't be justified given the extraordinarily unlikely event of Eurostars needing to be sent into the loop. There must be a procedure for e.g. a Fire evacuation of the security zone, and as you've mentioned it's possible to have a mobile control, so Putting the train into a Platform and detraining then reversing would be used long before the idea of sending trains into the shuttle area.
At Calais, you can use the connection to the domestic Calais-Frethun connections then a freight link into the terminal area, but why would you bother when you can just revers in the Frethun Int'l platforms. On the UK side if a train couldn't be stopped before Ashford there is the potential to stop it at Dollands Moor, and of course all lines are reversible due to TVM-430 so the train could be stopped prior to the tunnel and sent back wrong line to the next crossover.

 

[urpert]

The requirement to stamp is not absolute. It should be done, but it is not an absolute requirement, and this is borne out by the fact that some Schengen countries still do not systematically stamp all third country nationals on entry into Schengen. Frankfurt Airport was/is one of the worst for this, but there are other places too where they simply don't bother stamping people from Western countries.



No, all the controls related to the Channel Tunnel were designed for a past in which systematic stamping wasn't really required. St Pancras was designed in the atmosphere where most travellers needed a simple visual check, and scanning of passports on exit (from Schengen) wasn't a thing. By the time it opened, things had started to change, but even in 2019, France still wasn't systematically checking travellers on entry/exit from Schengen to the UK.

The problem is really that the Channel Tunnel was conceived in an era where passport controls were thought to be likely to end. In 1986, the Schengen Agreement had been signed, and the Single European Act was being negotiated. Passport controls among EEC members were becoming increasingly light, and if you look back at historical news articles on the topic, it was clear that at least the 1973 EEC members would have full freedom of movement by the mid 1990s.

So, I think we can forgive the Channel Tunnel infrastructure designers for not really anticipating a future in which there would be a hard border between the UK and France. The shuttles between Folkestone and Calais were meant to be 'hop on, hop off', and the original check-in booths were even called 'toll booths'. If you look at the design of the booths here: https://www.google.com/maps/@51.093...e0!5s20090101T000000!7i13312!8i6656?entry=ttu you can observe two rows of red displays. These were originally used to calculate the fare for travel, in line with the original philosophy. You can see this also here, on the French side: https://www.google.com/maps/@50.939...e0!5s20160601T000000!7i13312!8i6656?entry=ttu where the word "Toll" is used.

So if you look at the problems that Eurostar has with frontier controls, it should've been a non-issue. Eurostar wasn't designed for juxtaposed controls at the beginning, hence the lack of 'escape routes' because they simply didn't need it. It's also why Gare du Nord and others have a lack of space, because it wasn't intended for the station to feature two sets of controls.



I've always wondered why the loops weren't constructed in such a way that it would allow for trains to return without passing through the tunnel.

I’m not sure that’s actually the case - isn’t there access from the line between Frethun low level and Calais Ville? That line certainly runs along the arrival side of the loop for quite some time.

 

[zwk500]

I’m not sure that’s actually the case - isn’t there access from the line between Frethun low level and Calais Ville? That line certainly runs along the arrival side of the loop for quite some time.

There is an access line but you can't run direct from SNCF to Eurotunnel, you need to reverse in the Yard and you'd miss the terminal ramps:

 

[urpert]

Ooh that’s an excellent map!

 

[zwk500]

Ooh that’s an excellent map!

OpenRailwayMap

OpenRailwayMap - An OpenStreetMap-based project for creating a map of the world's railway infrastructure.

www.openrailwaymap.org

 

[ptreanor]

I suspect communication could have been better but I really don't know what else Eurostar could do. Given it was a Sunday afternoon/evening there wuld have been several THOUSAND people in Paris, a similar number in London with hundreds both in Brussels and Lille. Chartering planes or buses would have been extremely difficult and for Eurostar to book hotel accommodation for everyone would probably have taken all night.
Fortunately such events are extremely rare but it does make headline news when it does occur.

92s aren't very much help if the power's off, and if you've got power then the 373/374 fleet will have rather fewer problems. But yes they do. I presume they're cleared into St Pancras although I've never checked.

Class 92s are not equipped with KVB. TVM 430, AWS & TPWS only.