HS2 in the press

[spargazer]

Here endeth the speculation: May promises to deliver HS2 to Yorkshire

not Manchester!

 

[spargazer]

I have done a quick calculation and the tunnel under south Manchester will generate millions of tons of spoil,

the tunnel is 9km long with two bores 7.10m (Crossrail) diameter. which is about 11,400,000 cubic metres.

where is it all going to go?

It is probably cheaper that all those CPOs, road diversions, compensation payments and the litigation involved if overground..

it is still a lot.

 

[snowball]

not Manchester!

It's the Yorkshire Post, what do you expect?

YORKSHIREMAN GETS SPRAINED THUMB IN EARTHQUAKE

10,000 foreigners killed

 

[WatcherZero]

Governments made an offer to residents on the shimmer estate in mexborough yorkshire £30,000 to stay in the new homes being built and an assurance most will not be demolished. The £30k will be deducted from the governments offer should they decide they need to compulsory purchase or resident takes up the blighted home offer to sell to government.

 

[snowball]

BBC Look North (Leeds) reported affected families saying that they had heard about it through the media rather than from HS2 or DfT. They interviewed Tony Miles who said he suspected the news had got out by accident catching HS2 unprepared. HS2 said letters were being delivered by hand.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-south-yorkshire-40448030

 

[NotATrainspott]

I didn't expect that. I've looked at plans for the estate before and the HS2 viaduct really does cut it in half. At the very least it would be uninhabitable during construction due to the number of large goods vehicles and noise. Around half of the estate would be cut off from the rest of the world, and the other half would see traffic that the roads had never been designed for. At best, I thought they would use some of the houses as workforce accommodation and then knock them down when done, as they would be unsellable so close to the completed viaduct.

 

[YorkshireBear]

Makes sheffield councils ridiculous stance even worse, the original route was better and this is just one of the reasons.

 

[absolutelymilk]

At the very least it would be uninhabitable during construction due to the number of large goods vehicles and noise. Around half of the estate would be cut off from the rest of the world, and the other half would see traffic that the roads had never been designed for. At best, I thought they would use some of the houses as workforce accommodation and then knock them down when done, as they would be unsellable so close to the completed viaduct.

Are there no plans to put in more roads to make up for the viaduct or the increase in traffic?

 

[edwin_m]

Makes sheffield councils ridiculous stance even worse, the original route was better and this is just one of the reasons.

Agreed, if Sheffield had unequivocally backed the Meadowhall option it would probably have gone ahead. As it was their opposition seems to have led HS2 to look again at the whole area, and once they found a billion or so of savings by taking the main line further east the writing was on the wall.

 

[NotATrainspott]

Are there no plans to put in more roads to make up for the viaduct or the increase in traffic?

What I mean is that large volumes of heavy construction traffic will have to drive on streets designed effectively for children to play on. It's quite different to proper through roads which happen to have people living along them. I don't see many families wanting to live in an estate where they'll fear letting their children out to play with the huge lorries passing by with minimal separation from the pavement and gardens.

 

[edwin_m]

They will have to demolish houses some distance either side of the viaduct because people won't want to live almost right beneath it. Once they have done that they can build a haul road just to one side of where the piers will be. The remaining residents will still have a lot of noise and disruption but there will be little need for construction traffic to use estate roads.

 

[snowball]

there will be little need for construction traffic to use estate roads.

Most probably it will be banned from them.

 

[NotATrainspott]

For reference:

The composite map is the important one. The Shimmer estate is one big cul-de-sac and the viaduct pretty much perfectly cuts off half of it. They're not going to build a bridge over the river nearby, meaning that houses not requiring demolition will be left marooned by the construction works. Assuming that the total width of the construction site will be around 3 times the width of the viaduct, there really wouldn't be that many houses anyway. See, the houses are absolutely nothing special at all and could be replaced trivially at minimal cost with something fundamentally superior. Leaving a small number of properties would mean spending a huge amount on mitigation measures which would vastly exceed the value of them.

 

[edwin_m]

For reference:
...
They're not going to build a bridge over the river nearby, meaning that houses not requiring demolition will be left marooned by the construction works. ...

They could keep the road open that's nearest the river, possibly with a small diversion, as most construction traffic wouldn't need to go between the last pier and the river bank (unless they have to do something radical to the bank itself). But I agree it's questionable whether that would be worthwhile.

 

[WatcherZero]

The alignment isn't final, they could shift it left or right when they finalise the design but theres possibilities, they could do an underpass of the viaduct or they could build an access road for the line that doubles as public highway.

 

[DimTim]

If this was in the Chilterns it would be declared an AONB & a tunnel demanded!

 

[NotATrainspott]

The alignment isn't final, they could shift it left or right when they finalise the design but theres possibilities, they could do an underpass of the viaduct or they could build an access road for the line that doubles as public highway.

I doubt it. If you look at the route map, you'll see that the Shimmer estate was unfortunate enough to be in the only place that the line can practically run through without tunnelling under Mexborough.

Again, it's very important to remember that this estate is only a few years old now. There is no long-standing community character that would be destroyed by simply levelling the site and moving all of the residents to equivalent or superior accommodation nearby. The cost of coming up with novel civil engineering ideas will well exceed the cost of replacing all of these homes with something better. Construction will take a significant length of time and it will make the estate essentially uninhabitable for its original purpose of family homes. CPO the lot, keep some of them as workforce accommodation and site offices and then work out what, if anything, can be done with the site once there is a viaduct cutting it in half.

 

[YorkshireBear]

I doubt it. If you look at the route map, you'll see that the Shimmer estate was unfortunate enough to be in the only place that the line can practically run through without tunnelling under Mexborough.

Again, it's very important to remember that this estate is only a few years old now. There is no long-standing community character that would be destroyed by simply levelling the site and moving all of the residents to equivalent or superior accommodation nearby. The cost of coming up with novel civil engineering ideas will well exceed the cost of replacing all of these homes with something better. Construction will take a significant length of time and it will make the estate essentially uninhabitable for its original purpose of family homes. CPO the lot, keep some of them as workforce accommodation and site offices and then work out what, if anything, can be done with the site once there is a viaduct cutting it in half.

Unfortunately that is not how the public and particularly the press will see it.

 

[The Ham]

Local services are starting to get a mention:

https://www.metro.news/6-6billion-in-hs2-contracts-and-thats-just-the-start/676888/

HS2 trains are expected to carry up to 300,000 passengers a day, freeing up thousands of seats on local services. It could help double the number of seats on rush-hour services leaving Manchester and Leeds and potentially double the number of seats available from London to Peterborough.

 

[TheDavibob]

Local services are starting to get a mention:

...

potentially double the number of seats available from London to Peterborough.

Seems a clear indication plans are pretty developed for an East Anglian ECML terminus, to free up paths south of Peterborough.

Edit: that or stopping all intercity services there, on the other hand.

 

[YorkshireBear]

Seems a clear indication plans are pretty developed for an East Anglian ECML terminus, to free up paths south of Peterborough.

Edit: that or stopping all intercity services there, on the other hand.

I sense the second is more likely!! I have only heard ECMl services to East Anglia mentioned off the cuff about potential options and by enthusiasts nothing official.

Even so there will still be demand for services to London from the ECML Doncaster and South. I think it is much more likely we will see for example a 2tph service from York calling at Doncaster, Retford, Newark, Grantham, Peterborough, Stevenage and London Kings Cross. With extensions to Scarborough occasionally? Or split at Doncaster with some extensions to Cleethorpes and South Humberside.

Only ideas but i sense that is more indicative of what we will see post HS2. Mixed in with some semi fasts. But i think the days of York- London limited stop will end with HS2. (excluding some potential OOA)

 

[edwin_m]

There are no plans to run HS2 sets north of Edinburgh so if through London-Aberdeen/Inverness trains continue they might still be limited-stop services on the ECML.

 

[YorkshireBear]

There are no plans to run HS2 sets north of Edinburgh so if through London-Aberdeen/Inverness trains continue they might still be limited-stop services on the ECML.

Good point. I would still imagine those would be the only ones, and probably still stop at Peterborough too as otherwise pathing may be difficult.

 

[edwin_m]

Good point. I would still imagine those would be the only ones, and probably still stop at Peterborough too as otherwise pathing may be difficult.

Conversely they could be non-stop at Peterborough as that's one of the few places they could overtake all the other trains that could be stopping at all of Grantham, Newark and Retford. Similarly for Doncaster.

 

[phoenixcronin]

Just heard an idiot on local radio claim HS2 is bad for the environment because there's no third rail so the trains have to run on "petrol"

 

[Timrud]

Seems legit

 

[Ianno87]

There are no plans to run HS2 sets north of Edinburgh so if through London-Aberdeen/Inverness trains continue they might still be limited-stop services on the ECML.

That does raise a question about how the Aberdeen/Invernes flows will work post-HS2 Phase 2B. They'll potentially have a far, far quicker journey by changing at Edinburgh onto a HS2 service via the WCML (well over an hour faster than a classic ECML service, potentially). This would need to be balanced against the political acceptability of losing direct London trains, as well as intermediate flows (e.g. Aberdeen-Newcastle). Passengers would probably do a mix of both in reality.

My money would be on through trains continuing, but picking up Peterborough/Doncaster as well.

Should the wires ever go up to Aberdeen/Inverness, I could also see some 'marginal time' type peak extensions of HS2 services north of Edinburgh too. This might then allow some Aberdeen-ECML-Kings X services to become Aberdeen-ECML-Somewhere Else instead, with London links covered by HS2 services.

A further benefit of HS2 for northern Scotland is also not the rail connectivity but the potential of freeing up some Heathrow slots currently used for Manchester etc, to be used for Aberdeen/Inverness etc. instead.

 

[edwin_m]

That does raise a question about how the Aberdeen/Invernes flows will work post-HS2 Phase 2B. They'll potentially have a far, far quicker journey by changing at Edinburgh onto a HS2 service via the WCML (well over an hour faster than a classic ECML service, potentially). This would need to be balanced against the political acceptability of losing direct London trains, as well as intermediate flows (e.g. Aberdeen-Newcastle). Passengers would probably do a mix of both in reality.

My money would be on through trains continuing, but picking up Peterborough/Doncaster as well.

Should the wires ever go up to Aberdeen/Inverness, I could also see some 'marginal time' type peak extensions of HS2 services north of Edinburgh too. This might then allow some Aberdeen-ECML-Kings X services to become Aberdeen-ECML-Somewhere Else instead, with London links covered by HS2 services.

A further benefit of HS2 for northern Scotland is also not the rail connectivity but the potential of freeing up some Heathrow slots currently used for Manchester etc, to be used for Aberdeen/Inverness etc. instead.

I don't think there is any such thing as peak extras on Glasgow/Edinburgh services under the assumed Phase 2 timetable. All the trains are single units and there is a regular interval service, so there will be no units spending longer than the turnaround time at either place except for some that stable overnight. Hence there are no spare units standing around between the peaks. It's possible the Scots could pay for a few extra units to be added to the Phase 2 order, so some could work through to Aberdeen and Inverness assuming they are electrified by then.

 

[The Ham]

The are some fairly angry people out there, this news story is one of them:

THE new HS2 route will pass directly through a Doncaster man’s living room, between the TV and the sofa, every 30 minutes.

The high-speed rail link will go through 66-year-old Bill McKay’s home up to 24 times a day at speeds approaching 250 miles per hour, about which he is not happy.


He said: “They tell me it’ll be so fast I won’t notice it. I’ll bloody notice it.

“I’m not an excitable man, I’m well past that, my blood’s cooled, but a high-speed train packed with passengers racing past while I’m watching Pointless in my undercrackers is going too far.

“I’m not moving – I’ve got pigeons – but if it’s repeatedly spilling my brew I’ll have to have words.”

A spokesman for HS2 said: “We have tried wherever possible to limit disruption to residential areas, and have largely succeeded apart from in the particular case of the living room of Mr McKay.

“He will be well compensated with a larger television.

 

[edwin_m]

The are some fairly angry people out there, this news story is one of them:

Fake news.

If you look at the plans closely, it actually runs between the oven and the washing machine.