I think the OP is someone who likes to cause controversy - lights the touchpaper and stands back to admire his work
Wikipedia has a cited initial cost of between £15.8 and £17.4 billion with a total cost of £30bn for the Y-shape scheme. In November 2015 the Telegraph quotes a final cost of £42.6bn which must be for the whole scheme from start to finish.
I'm also not convinced that it's a like-for-like comparison - e.g. the lower figure may be construction costs only and the other may include all costs.Hmm, that is quite an increase (though as someone else mentioned a chunk of that will quite probably be inflation related).
I hate HS2. I will never use it. I will never accept it. I don't troll; I underline.
But you'll be able to get a train from Preston to London Euston that uses HS2 and provides you with a quicker journey time than you have today just as I, another Northerner, will be able to get a train from Darlington to London Euston also using HS2 and also getting to London quicker. So how does it not benefit the North? How is not investment in the North?
As I posited earlier. A railway line, by definition, runs from one place (London Euston in this case) to another (Birmingham, Manchester and Leeds). It cannot just serve one station as then it would not be a line
You forgot to say that you'll never accept electric trains between Manchester and Preston and never use them.(am I doing this right?)
You forgot to say that you'll never accept electric trains between Manchester and Preston and never use them.
It has always been something I have had a problem with. I'm a northener who sees the amount of money being spent on a new railway line which, yes actually, does serve London Euston, and I wonder why we up here lack anything like the same investment. The schemes you mention - ID cards and all - cost far too much without an end product to show for it, and quite rightly the government of the time was roundly criticised for the massive overspends in each cases. I wonder why similar care about project costs is apparently lacking in this case. At what point in HS2's current ever-increasing budget do we say "Enough is enough, to this amount of money and not a penny more"?
Scooter question for those that think that HS2 doesn't benefit the North; how many extra platforms does HS2 provide and how will this impact on the usage of the existing platforms?
As by removing long distance trains from existing platforms that then frees up more platforms for local services. This is especially true where long distance services start/end where trains could be blocking platforms for 20+ minutes.
what happened to the like button!I don't think we should have spent all of this money on electrifying the lines from Preston to Manchester (via Chat Moss), to Manchester (via Bolton) and to Blackpool.
Firstly, these schemes don't benefit the branch lines of East Anglia, so can't be said to benefit every single railway passenger in the country.
Secondly, electrifying the two lines from Preston to Manchester clearly only benefits Manchester and is of no use to Preston itself.
Thirdly, instead of spending all of this money on railway lines around Preston we could have spent the money on foodbanks/ potholes/ nurses/ starving puppies.
Fourthly, replacing Pacers/ Sprinters on the Blackpool - Preston - Manchester corridor with brand new (and longer) EMUs has meant new depot space was required - and surely the cost of additional depot space should be enough to sink an entire scheme?
Lastly, the the very concept of upgrading railways around Preston irritates and annoys, so my personal prejudice should be enough to have stopped it from happening.
(am I doing this right?)
I don't know Manchester very well, but according to Wikipedia (and I'm sure someone will correct me if this isn't accurate) before HS2 opens there'll be 16 (including the two which are planned) platforms however when HS2 opens it is due to add 5 more platforms.
That's circa 30% more platforms with the existing platforms with several long distance services moved over to the new platforms.
The length of the platforms you are comparing mean it will be a bigger increase than 30%. If other stations have platform extensions then 12x20m commuter services into Piccadilly would become possible on a large scale and obviously a 400m HS2 set will fit more people than a Pendolino.
And then he proposes to spend billions on a route duplication project.
We are planning to spend an absurd amount of money at the same time when every rural area in the uk has had their rural bus services decimated by Spending cuts. The first thing David Cameron did was virtually abolish all the spending reforms the previous labour government brought in. And then he proposes to spend billions on a route duplication project.
The only area of Britain that hasn't seen their bus services slashed in London. What a surprise.
Thatcher brought in deregulation and then the Tories have progressively slashed the budgets for councils to provide socially necessary services. On the one hand councils have a legal duty to fund socially necessary services whilst on the other hand the government that introduced these legal obligations take away the means to do so.
And we have the same government spending billions on this duplicating existing rail routes.
Do the public have any say in this?
Apparently not. That's democracy uk style. Where the Tories paymasters get richer through this massive transfer of public money to the private sector and these in rural areas who rely of public transport due to poverty, age and disability literally don't matter.
All of this was planned a long time ago as the Tories plan well ahead.
Of course, London will always be funded.
Do the public have any say in this?
Apparently not. That's democracy uk style.
The public did have a say, actually. All the main 3 parties have supported HS2 in their general election manifestos, which people voted for.
We are planning to spend an absurd amount of money at the same time when every rural area in the uk has had their rural bus services decimated by Spending cuts. The first thing David Cameron did was virtually abolish all the spending reforms the previous labour government brought in. And then he proposes to spend billions on a route duplication project.
The only area of Britain that hasn't seen their bus services slashed in London. What a surprise.
Thatcher brought in deregulation and then the Tories have progressively slashed the budgets for councils to provide socially necessary services. On the one hand councils have a legal duty to fund socially necessary services whilst on the other hand the government that introduced these legal obligations take away the means to do so.
And we have the same government spending billions on this duplicating existing rail routes.
Do the public have any say in this?
Apparently not. That's democracy uk style. Where the Tories paymasters get richer through this massive transfer of public money to the private sector and these in rural areas who rely of public transport due to poverty, age and disability literally don't matter.
All of this was planned a long time ago as the Tories plan well ahead.
Of course, London will always be funded.
The public did have a say, actually. All the main 3 parties have supported HS2 in their general election manifestos, which people voted for.
Labour played a huge part in HS2 and you could have reasonably expected the Tories to axe it. They didn't, yet now people are moaning about that fact.
Yes it's an odd argument isn't it? "A new railway line for London Euston". But a line runs from one place to another place so how can it just be a "new railway line for London Euston"? .
That would suggest you think me as a troll.
Let me assure you. I do not, and have not, not will never, support HS2. My posts come from opposition .Not from mischief or boredom or game playing. I post because the very concept irritates and annoys. Because I genuinely stay awake about it.
That was clumsy phrasing by me, the reference was specifically about HS2.When countries all over the world have adopted High Speed Rail as an option why does "the very concept" annoy you?
Phase 1 is for Euston to get high speed rail and a wholesale revamp. It's London-centric. It has always been sold as a way to get into London ten minutes faster than now. The connection at Old Oak is beneficial to London travellers.In PR1Berske Land the line runs from Euston to Old Oak then in a tight loop to go back to Euston.
But also requires the demolition of a pub in Manchester.