Idle locos left unattended?

[Beveridges]

Why is the spillage rate so high? Aside from any environmental concerns, this looks like a huge annual cost - 5% of the total fuel bill.

Antiquated, poorly maintained equipment, and an overworked fueller who has to fuel trains so quickly to keep the depot flowing that there is no time to keep checking that all fuel tanks are not overflowing.

When a screw on fuel pipe starts to overflow they really overflow! 5 litres of fuel per second gets poured onto the deck.

 

[ainsworth74]

That sounds like a rather large fire risk, I know that diesel isn't anywhere near as combustible as petrol but still five litres per second is a lot of fuel to worry about!

 

[Beveridges]

That sounds like a rather large fire risk, I know that diesel isn't anywhere near as combustible as petrol but still five litres per second is a lot of fuel to worry about!

No fires heard of as yet but very often that 5 litres per second can lead to 1500+ litres being spilled from one tank alone if the fueller is unaware of the overflow for several minutes. It leads to a "river of fuel" running between the rails all the way to the drainage grids.

 

[GB]

Antiquated, poorly maintained equipment, and an overworked fueller who has to fuel trains so quickly to keep the depot flowing that there is no time to keep checking that all fuel tanks are not overflowing.

When a screw on fuel pipe starts to overflow they really overflow! 5 litres of fuel per second gets poured onto the deck.

Bollox to the depot flow, if it isn't safe to do a proper job you don't do it...or at the very least you do it at a speed that is safe and allows you to make the proper checks. You should also have access to proper PPE for the task.

If you have reported it to your line manager your union rep should back you up if they start being arsy.

 

[Beveridges]

I think large spillages on the NH fuel rig are so commonplace people just get used to them. I don't think there is that much of a fire risk as the fuel pad is so damp with thousands of litres of fresh toilet water (not CET) spilled there as well. The only way to completely avoid mass fuel spillage would be to replace the old, poor equipment.

 

[Peter Mugridge]

Why on Earth don't they have an automatic shut off that stops the flow when the tank is full like a petrol pump has?

 

[Beveridges]

Why on Earth don't they have an automatic shut off that stops the flow when the tank is full like a petrol pump has?

They do, but the equipment is so old that it sometimes fails to shut off and just keeps going!

Most of the time, even if it does shut off the flow when full, you still get a big splash back. Other times it just keeps pumping fuel forever - or at least until the fueller isolates it.

A fully loaded fuel pad has 12 engines and 6+ toilets for the fueller to attend to all at once, so if one of those fuel pipes fails to shut off, its often going to take a long time before the fueller knows about it!

 

[Peter Mugridge]

Even without the obvious safety risks there, one would have thought that a 5% spillage rate would mean any investment in better, safer, equipment would be repaid very quickly through the fuel saved.

If there is any accident as a result of this spillage problem, I would not want to be one of the directors of your TOC...

 

[Tomnick]

Equally, I'm not sure I'd want to be the one publishing this sort of thing for all to see, especially not with my name proudly displayed beneath! Social media policy and all that...

 

[Beveridges]

I got told Network Rail owns the yard infrastructure (including the fuel rig) so theres nothing the TOC can do about it, even though they are paying for the fuel.

 

[GB]

It should be replaced on safety grounds alone. Whoever owns the fuel rig are obligated to make it safe.

 

[TB93]

I fuel DMUs semi regularly and out of the combined total of 40, 000 litres I put in the fleet, about 2000 litres gets spilled. There is a strong smell of diesel vapours in the air despite the fact that it is an open air outdoor environment under a canopy. Is breathing in diesel vapours likely to damage my health? The TOC have assured me it has been safety checked, but I don't trust them.

Antiquated, poorly maintained equipment, and an overworked fueller who has to fuel trains so quickly to keep the depot flowing that there is no time to keep checking that all fuel tanks are not overflowing.

When a screw on fuel pipe starts to overflow they really overflow! 5 litres of fuel per second gets poured onto the deck.

So in one breath it's you fuelling and spilling in the next breath it's an overworked fitter.:roll:

 

[Orange Donkey]

So in one breath it's you fuelling and spilling in the next breath it's an overworked fitter.:roll:

If you read it correctly you will see he says overworked fueller not fitter, who I believe is an MDD.

 

[broadgage]

You can stick a lighted match or a cigarette into a diesel tank. I wouldn't recommend doing so with a petrol tank.

I would strongly advise against putting any naked flame in a diesel fuel tank.
The fuel has a high flashpoint and a naked flame should in theory be safe near diesel fuel.

If however the diesel fuel contains even a very small percentage of petrol, as might happen, then explosive vapour could be present.
Even less than 1% petrol mixed with diesel can be dangerous, and such admixture could occur accidently, for example by use of fuel handling equipment previously used for petrol.

Sometimes petrol is deliberatly added to diesel fuel in very cold weather to avoid freezing.

 

[DownSouth]

I would strongly advise against putting any naked flame in a diesel fuel tank.
The fuel has a high flashpoint and a naked flame should in theory be safe near diesel fuel.

If however the diesel fuel contains even a very small percentage of petrol, as might happen, then explosive vapour could be present.
Even less than 1% petrol mixed with diesel can be dangerous, and such admixture could occur accidently, for example by use of fuel handling equipment previously used for petrol.

Sometimes petrol is deliberatly added to diesel fuel in very cold weather to avoid freezing.

If the naked flame is enough to raise the temperature of the diesel fuel vapour to 52°C no amount of petrol would be necessary to start a fire so long as enough of the vapour was raised to that temperature to make it a sustainable flame.

The maximum temperature here in Adelaide today was 45.1°C, and just to remove any doubt that was indeed the shade temperature recorded in a standard weather station. The temperature inside a fuel tank or out in the open would have been easily high enough for a spark to start a diesel fire hot enough to start evaporating and igniting the fuel remaining as liquid.

 

[TDK]

Back to topic - When WSMR ran 67's into Marylebone if the set was to stand more than 10 minutes the loco had to be shut down, when Chiltern took the sets from WSMR they decided to add a diesel generator engine to the DVT to run the ETH with a small compressor added to maintain the air. I do not know Chilterns current rules on this but all this was purely down to noise abatement.

 

[Dasher]

Back to topic - When WSMR ran 67's into Marylebone if the set was to stand more than 10 minutes the loco had to be shut down, when Chiltern took the sets from WSMR they decided to add a diesel generator engine to the DVT to run the ETH with a small compressor added to maintain the air. I do not know Chilterns current rules on this but all this was purely down to noise abatement.

Some locations have notice's stating loco's should be shut down if stood for any lenght of time ( Hereford station/Cheltenham Spa and Crewe Gresty road spring to mind, not sure if others exist) why would signs be necessary at these locations ?

 

[edwin_m]

Usually I believe because the lines are close to houses and the residents have complained. I recall one many years ago at Goodrington carriage sidings.

 

[1e10]

Usually I believe because the lines are close to houses and the residents have complained. I recall one many years ago at Goodrington carriage sidings.

Begs the question of why the moved to the area.

 

[fsmr]

Unattended locos have a habit of wandering off on their own if left to their own devices, with a little help from the locals :roll:

http://www.deltic21.co.uk/gallery/displayimage.php?album=119&pid=5996#top_display_media

 

[edwin_m]

Begs the question of why the moved to the area.

Maybe in steam days? Unless "blowing off" a steam train is very quiet when standing still. If the notice was put there when diesels first appeared then people have a right to complain if it is later removed and noise levels increase, even (especially) if those people moved in after the notice was installed.

Or perhaps there is just more rail traffic than there used to be.

 

[Beveridges]

Begs the question of why the moved to the area.

They probably had no idea how bad it is until it was too late.