In praise of heritage railways...but which are the best?

[Peter West]

I recently discovered this fabulous forum and having been reading across the subject matter.


With regard to heritage lines by best I mean authentic in terms of creating the ambience of past times.


Coaches and and specifically compartments would seem to be a critical component.


I recently travelled on the Severn Valley Railway and marvelled at the first class compartments although the third class ones weren’t too bad either.


I also experienced the GWSR from Toddington to Cheltenham which had a variety of rolling stock. The open carriages were mixed in with the compartments.


The West Somerset Railway I understand only has very few compartments with the vast majority of coaches as open seating (tourist second open?)which is a shame given it,s the longest running in time and longest in terms of length of track. Can anyone loan them some more compartments?!


Pullman dining carriages adjoining first class compartment coaches would be the ideal combination methinks. Peter Snow,s recent C4 series on coach restoration has fired my imagination somewhat and surely there was a market for visitors to experience the time train over an extended period. I wonder how long they had it in Llangollen for? I would have certainly paid to experience it.


I understand that the Brighton belle with its restored Pullman coaches is scheduled to return in 2019 and Vintage Trains plan at some point this year to run their Shakespeare Express and Cotswold Explorer.


I would be interested to hear of other members’ experiences and opinions.

 

[yorksrob]

I like the East Lancs. Bury Bolton St has a good 1970's/80's BR feel, and there are plenty of good bars and pubs along the way.

 

[Flying Phil]

I am biased, but I think the Great Central Railway is right up there as the most authentic, with its mix of station styles, range of coaching stock, variety and quantity of goods wagons, double track - quadruple at Swithland and its own branch line to Mountsorrel. Busy galas but quieter midweek running and running every weekend throughout the year. We are very fortunate.

 

[John Webb]

The North Yorkshire Moors railway has a good range of coaching stock, both BR Mk 1 open and compartment types and also Gresley coaches. Excellent scenery and stations kept in good order. Steep bank (1 in 49) coming up from Grosmont to Goathland so locos can be heard working hard (when the fire risk is low!).
Embsay and Bolton Abbey Railway - mixture of stock + some restored vintage coaches running at times. Bolton Abbey station is an interesting reproduction of the original Midland Railway buildings, Embsay has the original building.
Keighley and Worth Valley Railway - includes the shorter Mk 1 compartment (non-corridor) coaches used for suburban services - stations well-kept; Oakworth in particular is very atmospheric. Very much a trad branch line feel to the whole railway.

See http://www.heritage-railways.com/index.php for information on the UK's preserved railways and railway museums etc.

 

[ArchieWoodbine]

It'll all come down to personal, usually geographical bias at the end of the day, but I've always been very fond of the Blubell Railway. They've got a great range of pre-grouping stock and locomitives, which really differentiates it from other lines. It's got a tunnel, viaduct, mainline-link, distinctive and large stations.

A close second would be the Swanage Railway. Charming scenery and a very nice 1950s-1960s Southern Region atmosphere.

 

[Shimbleshanks]

For me, what really makes the difference is being able to travel in authentic, pre-nationalisation coaching stock. There can't be any better ways of wiling away a sunny afternoon than in a GWR (or GWR-style) compartment chugging along the Severn Valley. To me, the motive power is almost irrelevant and I suspect the same is true of many 'normal' passengers too.

I took the Missus on the Isle of Wight line many years back and she was absolutely gobsmacked by the non-corridor compartment we sat in. I few weeks later, thinking I'd at last overcome her antipathy to all things railway, I took her on the Kent & East Sussex, where we were treated to a BR Mk 1 open behind an industrial saddletank. I asked how she liked it and she shrugged and said: "It's just like the train I go to work on every day." (This was still in the days of slam-door stock in South London, so she wasn't exactly wrong).

 

[DarloRich]

Subjective of course but:

• North Yorks Moors Railway
• Severn Valley Railway
• Welsh Highland /FR
• Great Central

I like the East Lancs. Bury Bolton St has a good 1970's/80's BR feel, and there are plenty of good bars and pubs along the way.

I found the ELR disappointingly dull.

 

[47434]

I really like the East Lancs - I guess it resonates with my childhood - good ale opportunities and plenty of diesels.

For pure nostalgia, you can't beat the Severn Valley

 

[E759]

Welcome to the forum Peter!

The last thread with your question is here: https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/best-heritage-light-railway.163883/

There will be some opinions there for you to puruse as well as here.

I'm on 15 heritage railways in 2018 so far with another 5 booked for August/September. Every railway has been a delight in its own special way. For myself, getting to the railway is part of the experience; there is nothing finer than travelling a few hundred miles using trains, Underground, buses and boats to get to a railway.

"Which are the best railways?" To me that question is like "which is the best camera" or "which is the best car". Your tastes won't be the same as mine. You mentioned Pullman cars and the Brighton Belle so you are obviously a man with deep pockets. So I'd suggest you do what I am doing and visit them all to form your own personal opinion.


PS: Just to ensure to are aware, you can travel in Queen Victoria's L&SWR saloon, featured in Peter Snow's C4 series, on the Embsay & Bolton Abbey Railway for only £75: https://www.embsayboltonabbeyrailway.org.uk/aboutus/queen-victorias-golden-jubilee-carriage

 

[Peter West]

Many thanks for the welcome and some great input plus someone kindly reparked this strand in the right place on the Forum.

15 plus 5 more railways this year...what a life you lead E759...puts my puny 2 into perspective.

Hope you can give us all a full report, maybe with a league table showing us your criteria?
We could even develop a points weighting system combining comfort, authenticity, compartments!,stations, dining car and so on!

My interest in the Pullman and Brighton Belle was originally sparked by an excellent documentary by Andrew Martin a few years ago. He,s an amusing guy and someone that knows a few things about trains too.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b00dwflh

Anyway I,m off to read the links provided and build up my knowledge!

 

[Journeyman]

I took her on the Kent & East Sussex, where we were treated to a BR Mk 1 open behind an industrial saddletank. I asked how she liked it and she shrugged and said: "It's just like the train I go to work on every day."

Unfortunately there's a lot of railways where this is all you get. There's nothing fundamentally wrong with the Mark 1 and it's a good dependable workhorse, but paired with an industrial loco it's a bit uninspiring, especially if they're the rather shabby specimens you get in some places. The Bluebell tends to be a bit twee and chocolate-boxy for my liking, but they were lucky getting in early and acquiring a fantastic selection of very historic rolling stock. Most newcomers have had far less choice.

Agree with you that the IOW steam railway is a real treat for vintage stock, that you're guaranteed to get.

 

[mushroomchow]

The Isle of Wight railway is short but if as some mentioned compartments come into it, nothing comes close for the sheer quality of the restoration work done and the historical interest of the stock on offer.

But if you want the "proper" railway, then yes, Great Central is where it's at. Take a walk up to the fields near Quorn on a gala day and just take it all in - you could easily be a lad sat on the fence watching expresses slowing for a TSR back in the 1950s.

 

[kje7812]

The GCR is good on galas, but very dull on ordinary days.
I like the Bluebell. Lots of interesting stock.
I haven't been to NYMR for ages and the WSR has been a while so both are on my re-visit list.

 

[E759]

I like the East Lancs. Bury Bolton St has a good 1970's/80's BR feel, and there are plenty of good bars and pubs along the way.

Best beer served on the railway I’ve encountered this year!

 

[E759]

For me, what really makes the difference is being able to travel in authentic, pre-nationalisation coaching stock. There can't be any better ways of wiling away a sunny afternoon than in a GWR (or GWR-style) compartment chugging along the Severn Valley. To me, the motive power is almost irrelevant and I suspect the same is true of many 'normal' passengers too.

I took the Missus on the Isle of Wight line many years back and she was absolutely gobsmacked by the non-corridor compartment we sat in. I few weeks later, thinking I'd at last overcome her antipathy to all things railway, I took her on the Kent & East Sussex, where we were treated to a BR Mk 1 open behind an industrial saddletank. I asked how she liked it and she shrugged and said: "It's just like the train I go to work on every day." (This was still in the days of slam-door stock in South London, so she wasn't exactly wrong).

Yet [K&ESR] totally in keeping with the way Colonel Stephens operated

 

[E759]

Many thanks for the welcome and some great input plus someone kindly reparked this strand in the right place on the Forum.

15 plus 5 more railways this year...what a life you lead E759...puts my puny 2 into perspective.

Hope you can give us all a full report, maybe with a league table showing us your criteria?
We could even develop a points weighting system combining comfort, authenticity, compartments!,stations, dining car and so on!

My interest in the Pullman and Brighton Belle was originally sparked by an excellent documentary by Andrew Martin a few years ago. He,s an amusing guy and someone that knows a few things about trains too.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b00dwflh

Anyway I,m off to read the links provided and build up my knowledge!

I have a virtual fantasy league table in my head! Reachability features highly and direct rail access gives entry to the Premier League automatically.

I tend not to sit down a lot so let the ambience of an authentic MK 1 not get under my skin. However, 1st class non- corridor compartments on the Isle of Wight do garner massive bonus points. ‘Belle Observation cars at Dartmouth and Swange are probably the cheapest way to experience a Pullman ride and well worth the supplement.

One criteria which shouldn’t be forgotten is the staff and volunteers. I’ve had some great conversations with those putting the show on the road. The Attitude Test works both ways of course!

[Currently en route to No 16, Spa Valley 33 Running Day & Rare Track Excursion.]

 

[sprinterguy]

"Which are the best railways?" To me that question is like "which is the best camera" or "which is the best car". Your tastes won't be the same as mine. You mentioned Pullman cars and the Brighton Belle so you are obviously a man with deep pockets. So I'd suggest you do what I am doing and visit them all to form your own personal opinion.

"Best" in terms of providing the most authentic historical ambience as stated in the opening post is quantifiable though, and less subject to personal tastes.

Personally, of the preserved lines that I've experienced (I have a dearth of experience of preserved lines in the south, such as the Bluebell, Kent & East Sussex, Mid-Hants or West Somerset to name a few, so cannot comment on those), I've not found one that can hold a candle to the totally immersive nostalgic experience that is provided by the Severn Valley Railway: Every detail, from locomotives and pre-nationalisation rolling stock to station buildings, decoration, signage and staff uniforms seems to have been comprehensively considered. Though I'd also rate highly the North Yorkshire Moors Railway, and in terms of shorter lines, the Keighley and Worth Valley Railway also do an excellent job within quite a compact operation. I think I'd consider those my top three.

But if you want the "proper" railway, then yes, Great Central is where it's at. Take a walk up to the fields near Quorn on a gala day and just take it all in - you could easily be a lad sat on the fence watching expresses slowing for a TSR back in the 1950s.

I've been disappointed by the Great Central. It's not bad, but IMO it fails to live up to its own hype. It struck me as being a fairly short ride through uninspiring countryside from not-quite-somewhere to not-quite-somewhere-else, attended by disinterested staff (This isn't meant as a slur against the dedication of the workforce of that railway, just what I experienced the day I visited).

 

[E759]

I worry that regional bias is playing a role? As for authentic, Inigo Montoya says in Princess Bride, “You keep using that word. I don’t think it means what you think it means”

Authentic Cl 33 heading North from Eridge now.

Edit: Messed up the photo upload from phone so here is a bonus video instead:

 

[sprinterguy]

I worry that regional bias is playing a role? As for authentic, Inigo Montoya says in Princess Bride, “You keep using that word. I don’t think it means what you think it means”

I can only comment on those preserved lines as I've experienced, I don't believe that views expressed on this thread are expected to be comprehensive.

 

[Flying Phil]

I'm afraid that my use of "Authentic" is a bit of a mistake unless you accept it as being a "range of authentisities!" and it is great that we have such a variety of preserved lines, which surely satisfy most tastes?

 

[E759]

I'm afraid that my use of "Authentic" is a bit of a mistake unless you accept it as being a "range of authentisities!" and it is great that we have such a variety of preserved lines, which surely satisfy most tastes?

Totally agree, we are very lucky! Fine that some go for the long lines and fine that some go for the intimate. Something for all tastes as you say.

 

[yorksrob]

I'm afraid that my use of "Authentic" is a bit of a mistake unless you accept it as being a "range of authentisities!" and it is great that we have such a variety of preserved lines, which surely satisfy most tastes?

We just need one with the third rail now

 

[E759]

We just need one with the third rail now

Volks in Brighton

 

[yorksrob]

V

Volks in Brighton

Good point, although not so good for running assorted VEP's, CIG's COR's, BIL's etc !

 

[E759]

No

Good point, although not so good for running assorted VEP's, CIG's COR's, BIL's etc !

No, not really! But I’d pay for the COR or BIL top n tailed by Class 20s...

 

[yorksrob]

No

No, not really! But I’d pay for the COR or BIL top n tailed by Class 20s...

Not as good as under their own power, but I'd definitely pay for that as well.

 

[Calthrop]

I'm not the world's greatest fan of the railway preservation movement: feel that even at its best (a good self-contained preserved steam railway) it can give only a faint hint of what the glorious "mostly-there-and-mostly-steam" scene of 60+ years ago, was like (though, better material preserved "however", than scrapped). Might I thus, a bit perversely, put in a word for a personal favourite, the Nene Valley Railway? (In my childhood-and-youth "patch", which for me, contributes.) "Authenticity" being for me basically a phantom; I appreciate the NVR's having adapted itself to a loading gauge which allows it to run locos and stock from the European continent as well as Great Britain -- promoting interesting variety.

I'd like the NVR better still, if only it had found itself able to preserve the entire route -- track down, until relatively late -- between Peterborough and Oundle: that giving it in my view a decent length; and running satisfyingly "from somewhere to somewhere". There are, however, different -- and sense-making -- "takes" on this issue: discussed in some detail on the thread in this sub-forum, "Which preserved railway extension would you most like to see?" (first post 5 / 2 / 2018).

 

[bnm]

My personal favourites are the Severn Valley Railway and the Ffestiniog/Welsh Highland.

The one I visit most frequently though is the West Somerset, as it's closest to home. It's up there with the best.

Least enjoyable visit in recent years? Dean Forest Railway. Which seems to be recreating the run down nature of Beeching era branch lines, rather than celebrating the history.

 

[Calthrop]

Least enjoyable visit in recent years? Dean Forest Railway. Which seems to be recreating the run down nature of Beeching era branch lines, rather than celebrating the history.

Just can't resist this (not detracting from your point, bnm, just the juxtaposition of Dean Forest Railway, and Beeching). I travelled some years ago on the DFR, Lydney Junction to upper terminus and back, by DMU -- en route, overheard an elderly fellow-passenger attributing the closure to passengers of the line north of Lydney Town, to Dr. Beeching and his axe. An interesting illustration of the way in which Dr. Beeching -- who somehow sounds just so very right for his role -- has entered the public consciousness / vocabulary, as a slaughterer of lesser railways. The Severn & Wye rail system -- joint GWR and Midland -- north of Lydney Town, was closed to passengers in 1929, when Richard Beeching -- the future Doctor -- was all of sixteen years old.

Odd that I, who half-a-century-plus ago was passionately wishing that Dr. B. might be hanged, drawn and quartered -- now find myself sometimes wanting to defend the poor old deceased sod, from accusations of stuff of which he totally wasn't guilty !

 

[bramling]

For me, what really makes the difference is being able to travel in authentic, pre-nationalisation coaching stock. There can't be any better ways of wiling away a sunny afternoon than in a GWR (or GWR-style) compartment chugging along the Severn Valley. To me, the motive power is almost irrelevant and I suspect the same is true of many 'normal' passengers too.

I took the Missus on the Isle of Wight line many years back and she was absolutely gobsmacked by the non-corridor compartment we sat in. I few weeks later, thinking I'd at last overcome her antipathy to all things railway, I took her on the Kent & East Sussex, where we were treated to a BR Mk 1 open behind an industrial saddletank. I asked how she liked it and she shrugged and said: "It's just like the train I go to work on every day." (This was still in the days of slam-door stock in South London, so she wasn't exactly wrong).

If one likes compartments, the "lock-ups" on the Ffestiniog Railway are IMO among the best. Often found on the uphill end of the train, it doesn't get much better than sitting in one of the 1st-class compartments behind an engine working hard on the climb towards Ffestiniog, then on the way down in light rain enjoying a faint scent of brake dust.

Must admit, whilst I understand the economics, I much prefer travelling in compartments - makes the journey much more relaxing knowing there's not going to be a screaming baby or Jeremy Kyle family spoiling the experience.