Inadequate Metrolink ticketing facilities at Manchester Victoria

[javelin]

It started in July 2019 so only people who haven't used the system at all in more than three years will be particularly surprised.

Which to be fair will be a lot of people given most of that time was during the pandemic.

 

[Starmill]

Which to be fair will be a lot of people given most of that time was during the pandemic.

Yes of course, and there will always be lots of people who are making their first ever visit involving using the tram. I was just clarifying that it's not as new as suggested.

 

[Chester1]

Hopefully Manchester Metrolink having the same process for passengers as London will help it become the standard system (excluding non automated systems like Sheffield). As @yorksrob and @etr221 have demonstrated, no system is straightforward if you don't know its there or haven't used it before and haven't watched the video before arriving at the stop. My parents used it with me earlier in the year. They are in their 60s so not very old but they did struggle to grasp the concept. They have started using contactless cards so the tapping once made sense but were alightly confused when I instructed them to tap out. Its something I and probably most younger adults grasp intuitively.

 

[Bald Rick]

no system is straightforward if you don't know its there or haven't used it before

That depends.

In my case, having not used Metrolink for a few years, whilst en route north I googled ‘Manchester tram tickets’ and the page returned “where to buy tram tickets”, and at the top of that page in big type it says “contactless pay as you go”.

And that was that. It could not have been anymore straightforward, it took me perhaps 10 seconds to find out.

Although I accept (but don’t understand) that not everyone thinks like me, ie to be prepared in advance!

 

[markymark2000]

To be fair, there is ample space at Victoria where there could be some on site, static promotion. Just to help those who don't prepare in advance.

 

[Mcr Warrior]

Metrolink has always been a self-service system, like for instance the German systems.

Very occasionally, Metrolink staff have issued tickets in person at the busier Manchester city centre tram stops, usually this was when there was a major sports event (or concert) on at Old Trafford or the Etihad.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Very occasionally, Metrolink staff have issued tickets in person at the busier Manchester city centre tram stops, usually this was when there was a major sports event (or concert) on at Old Trafford or the Etihad.

Every rule...

Personally I think the railway should do a deal with Metrolink such that any ticket valid via Manchester can be used to cross the city centre if needs be, as per tickets routed +LONDON. The amount needing to be paid could be worked out by way of passenger surveys of how many actually use that facility.

 

[etr221]

Every rule...

Personally I think the railway should do a deal with Metrolink such that any ticket valid via Manchester can be used to cross the city centre if needs be, as per tickets routed +LONDON. The amount needing to be paid could be worked out by way of passenger surveys of how many actually use that facility.

Noting that TfGM is offering a 'free city centre' bus, I would think it a sensible idea to make the city centre a free travel zone (for all trams and buses, if not trains, in the zone), with a zero fare/no ticket required situation, as done in some other places.

Hopefully Manchester Metrolink having the same process for passengers as London will help it become the standard system (excluding non automated systems like Sheffield). As @yorksrob and @etr221 have demonstrated, no system is straightforward if you don't know its there or haven't used it before and haven't watched the video before arriving at the stop. My parents used it with me earlier in the year. They are in their 60s so not very old but they did struggle to grasp the concept. They have started using contactless cards so the tapping once made sense but were alightly confused when I instructed them to tap out. Its something I and probably most younger adults grasp intuitively.

But Metrolink is not using the same system as London, where on trams (except for mega bundle of confusion at Wimbledon) and buses there is no need to (indeed, positive instruction not to) touch out. So, while contactless tap = fare paid may be intuitively grasped, having to tap out at the end isn't - when and where is it needed?

A question somebody might like to ponder and produce a complete answer - i.e. comprehensive set of instructions for - is: if I have a contactless card and wish to travel from one station where it is accepted on a 'tap to travel' basis to another such, what do I need to do to pay the correct fare and avoid any penalty

 

[Bletchleyite]

A question somebody might like to ponder and produce a complete answer - i.e. comprehensive set of instructions for - is: if I have a contactless card and wish to travel from one station where it is accepted on a 'tap to travel' basis to another such, what do I need to do to pay the correct fare and avoid any penalty

Tap in before boarding the first tram. Tap out after alighting the last one. No need to tap when changing (as that would tap you out).

Same as the Tube/DLR minus the gates, basically.

 

[Chester1]

That depends.

In my case, having not used Metrolink for a few years, whilst en route north I googled ‘Manchester tram tickets’ and the page returned “where to buy tram tickets”, and at the top of that page in big type it says “contactless pay as you go”.

And that was that. It could not have been anymore straightforward, it took me perhaps 10 seconds to find out.

Although I accept (but don’t understand) that not everyone thinks like me, ie to be prepared in advance!

I think older people and especially the elderly are less likely to think about other systems and just rely on traditional tickets.

Every rule...

Personally I think the railway should do a deal with Metrolink such that any ticket valid via Manchester can be used to cross the city centre if needs be, as per tickets routed +LONDON. The amount needing to be paid could be worked out by way of passenger surveys of how many actually use that facility.

Metrolink is integrated with train tickets with GM with tickets being able to be bought between railway stations and Metrolink zones, also between Metrolink stops and Rail zones. Open tickets bought for a GM station to Manchester city stations include travel within Metrolink Zone 1. I agree though the lack of integration with wider rail network ticketing should have been sorted years ago.

Noting that TfGM is offering a 'free city centre' bus, I would think it a sensible idea to make the city centre a free travel zone (for all trams and buses, if not trains, in the zone), with a zero fare/no ticket required situation, as done in some other places.


But Metrolink is not using the same system as London, where on trams (except for mega bundle of confusion at Wimbledon) and buses there is no need to (indeed, positive instruction not to) touch out. So, while contactless tap = fare paid may be intuitively grasped, having to tap out at the end isn't - when and where is it needed?

A question somebody might like to ponder and produce a complete answer - i.e. comprehensive set of instructions for - is: if I have a contactless card and wish to travel from one station where it is accepted on a 'tap to travel' basis to another such, what do I need to do to pay the correct fare and avoid any penalty

Its been a while since I used Croydon Tramlink so didn't remember that. The buses in Manchester are tap in only. Metrolink is tap in and tap out.

 

[etr221]

Tap in before boarding the first tram. Tap out after alighting the last one. No need to tap when changing (as that would tap you out).

Same as the Tube/DLR minus the gates, basically.

My qustion was for a COMPLETE set of instructions, not just for TfGM Metrolink (or TfL Tube or DLR)... for which your answer is woefully inadequate.
(Thinks: perhaps those with appropriate authority might like to split this off to a seperate thread)

 

[Bletchleyite]

My qustion was for a COMPLETE set of instructions, not just for TfGM Metrolink (or TfL Tube or DLR)... for which your answer is woefully inadequate.
(Thinks: perhaps those with appropriate authority might like to split this off to a seperate thread)

You mean a sticky thread that explains it for all places in the UK that do that? I guess start one and people can contribute.

 

[181]

They are in their 60s so not very old but they did struggle to grasp the concept. They have started using contactless cards so the tapping once made sense but were alightly confused when I instructed them to tap out. Its something I and probably most younger adults grasp intuitively.

So, while contactless tap = fare paid may be intuitively grasped, having to tap out at the end isn't - when and where is it needed?

Apologies if this is off topic because I've never used Metrolink, but while I (presumably somewhere between Chester1 and Chester1's parents in age) have no problem understanding the concept of tap on, tap off, what can be an issue is remembering to do it -- showing a ticket to leave a railway station has long been common, but I'm not aware that 'checking out' of a bus or tram has ever previously been normal. My local bus operator now uses it, but only for single tickets -- returns are paper tickets as before, so any given user is likely to encounter TOTO only occasionally. (Fortunately on the two occasions I've failed to tap out I was going to the end of the route anyway, and on a third occasion the driver reminded me).

(Tapping out also involves a minor inconvenience in getting one's wallet out again when disembarking, but I presume the idea is that quicker boarding more than compensates for this).

 

[WatcherZero]

TBH I got caught out on the DLR, after a week of using the underground and there being barriers everywhere when I board the DLR at Tower Gateway I saw no card readers anywhere or signs telling you to tap in at the station so didnt give it another thought, got on the train to Cutty Sark to visit the museum, got off and then at Cutty Sark theres obvious validation machines. So just left it and tapped in on the return journey to Bank.

 

[Goldfish62]

I always use Tap in Tap out on Metrolink. Great system.

 

[Sparrowman]

 

[Roast Veg]

To be fair, there is ample space at Victoria where there could be some on site, static promotion. Just to help those who don't prepare in advance.

There's a lot of signage like this at Piccadilly as you go downstairs, it's just missing from Victoria, like a lot of nice things are.

 

[Chester1]

There's a lot of signage like this at Piccadilly as you go downstairs, it's just missing from Victoria, like a lot of nice things are.

The tap in and out system has significantly reduced demand for ticket machines. With fewer season tickets being sold than in 2019 its very fortunate that the system is in place. I imagine the TVMs would have huge queues without it. I agree though that some of the stations need to advertise it better.

 

[yorksrob]

That depends.

In my case, having not used Metrolink for a few years, whilst en route north I googled ‘Manchester tram tickets’ and the page returned “where to buy tram tickets”, and at the top of that page in big type it says “contactless pay as you go”.

And that was that. It could not have been anymore straightforward, it took me perhaps 10 seconds to find out.

Although I accept (but don’t understand) that not everyone thinks like me, ie to be prepared in advance!

But I've bought Manchester Metroling tickets on many occasions over the past ten years or so. Why would I "prepare" for something different ?

 

[plugwash]

There's a lot of signage like this at Piccadilly as you go downstairs, it's just missing from Victoria, like a lot of nice things are.

One difference between PIC and VIC is that PIC essentially has a "metrolink concourse", a large empty room with lots of wall space for posters that is controlled by metrolink and which most passenges pass though.

Whereas at VIC the metrolink provision is basically just a platform in the main station hall.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Whereas at VIC the metrolink provision is basically just a platform in the main station hall.

Have you been there recently? It basically takes over most of the main trainshed. It's in a way a thorn in the side of making the station's concourse better, as is that manky Arena bridge.

 

[plugwash]

The platforms themselves are pretty big, yes but my point was that metrolink doesn't have it's "own space" at victoria in the way it does at Picadilly,

 

[Roast Veg]

The platforms themselves are pretty big, yes but my point was that metrolink doesn't have it's "own space" at victoria in the way it does at Picadilly,

It has absolutely enough space to improve signage for tourists.

 

[Bald Rick]

But I've bought Manchester Metroling tickets on many occasions over the past ten years or so. Why would I "prepare" for something different ?

Because life moves on!

 

[Mat17]

What exactly is this tap on, tap off?

What is being tapped on and off, is it a credit card, smart card? I hear it being used when referring to London, but I haven't a clue what it is.

I don't use Metrolink very often, I've always used cash in the machines on the platform at Piccadilly.

 

[Steddenm]

What exactly is this tap on, tap off?

What is being tapped on and off, is it a credit card, smart card? I hear it being used when referring to London, but I haven't a clue what it is.

I don't use Metrolink very often, I've always used cash in the machines on the platform at Piccadilly.

You can use a contactless-enabled credit or debit card, a phone with Apple Pay, Google Pay, Samsung Pay, Fitbit Pay etc or the Transport For Greater Manchester's Get Me There smartcard (and also the ENCTS card with the TfGM logo on).

If using a credit/debit card/digital wallet it works out the correct fare you should be charged for your journey.

The Get Me There card usually holds a season ticket and the ENCTS pass enables free travel for disabled or elderly passengers.

On the platforms there are yellow stand alone readers where you tap the above to start your journey or end your journey.

It's a bit like Oyster in London, Leap in Ireland and using contactless on the bus, but you need to tap out.

Fares are capped at the daily zonal rate.

 

[Mat17]

You can use a contactless-enabled credit or debit card, a phone with Apple Pay, Google Pay, Samsung Pay, Fitbit Pay etc or the Transport For Greater Manchester's Get Me There smartcard (and also the ENCTS card with the TfGM logo on).

If using a credit/debit card/digital wallet it works out the correct fare you should be charged for your journey.

The Get Me There card usually holds a season ticket and the ENCTS pass enables free travel for disabled or elderly passengers.

On the platforms there are yellow stand alone readers where you tap the above to start your journey or end your journey.

It's a bit like Oyster in London, Leap in Ireland and using contactless on the bus, but you need to tap out.

Fares are capped at the daily zonal rate.

Ah, thanks for explaining that. Gosh things certainly have moved on. I've had smart cards before for the buses, I haven't had the tap in/out experience yet.

 

[The exile]

Ah, thanks for explaining that. Gosh things certainly have moved on. I've had smart cards before for the buses, I haven't had the tap in/out experience yet.

It doesn’t half slow down the process of loading /unloading on the buses round here (West of England). OK - not that much, but that’s because most people aren’t using it.

 

[Bletchleyite]

It doesn’t half slow down the process of loading /unloading on the buses round here (West of England). OK - not that much, but that’s because most people aren’t using it.

How could tapping in possibly slow down the boarding process compared with having a lengthy chat about your destination and then tapping?

In London it is almost as fast as conductor operation. Indeed, it was what it took to finally get rid of that entirely - prior to it operation on some central routes was just too slow to be able to get rid of it.

 

[Mat17]

In London it is almost as fast as conductor operation. Indeed, it was what it took to finally get rid of that entirely - prior to it operation on some central routes was just too slow to be able to get rid of it.

Can you still use cash in London on buses and underground etc.?