Information for GTR Southern passengers during strike (no DOO discussion)

[infobleep]

Although as I understand it a conductor who has participated in the strike cannot stand in.

Well there is the answer then.

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[HBM]

The list of daily cancelled trains on the Southern Website seems far from complete. The 06:27 and 07:30 from Brighton to Southampton are on the list but no mention of the return workings at 08:32 and 09:32 from Southampton which won't run and haven't done so for the past couple of weeks. Similarly a number of other return workings are not shown e.g. the return working of the 12:23 Brighton to West Worthing. The average customer won't know the return workings of outbound cancelled services unless told.

Maybe a small number of trains becomes a much larger number of trains if they actually list them all!

The listed 17:23 Portsmouth Harbour to Brighton doesn't exist, it is actually the 17:29.

Let's have the whole truth and nothing but the truth.

 

[Bishopstone]

Yes, I noticed none of the return workings were included on the list, as though everybody travels FROM Brighton but nobody needs to come back!

 

[infobleep]

The list of daily cancelled trains on the Southern Website seems far from complete. The 06:27 and 07:30 from Brighton to Southampton are on the list but no mention of the return workings at 08:32 and 09:32 from Southampton which won't run and haven't done so for the past couple of weeks. Similarly a number of other return workings are not shown e.g. the return working of the 12:23 Brighton to West Worthing. The average customer won't know the return workings of outbound cancelled services unless told.

Maybe a small number of trains becomes a much larger number of trains if they actually list them all!

The listed 17:23 Portsmouth Harbour to Brighton doesn't exist, it is actually the 17:29.

Let's have the whole truth and nothing but the truth.

Perhaps someone mistyped 3 instead of 9. If so perhaps GTR should sack them for gross negligence and conveniently not replace them!

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[radamfi]

Wouldn't it be better to recast the whole timetable, reserving the Brighton Mainline for DOO trains only and concentrating the remaining conductors on connecting trains terminating at BML stations?

 

[Bishopstone]

Today, a twist, with a batch of cancellations on Coastway due to 'shortage of trains due to additional maintenance requirements'.

As an example, the 19.08 Brighton-Seaford is cancelled for this reason, and the following 19.23 Brighton-Newhaven Harbour pre-cancelled due to crew shortage.

I would have thought some juggling of available trains and crew could have allowed one of these diagrams to operate.

Yesterday was a Gatwick Express meltdown, and I see that today the extra cancellations have been dumped on East and West Coastways instead. On the Seaford branch, we're just told to go by bus instead: they haven't realised, one month in, that there isn't a bus between Seaford and Lewes/Falmer, which has considerable FE and HE traffic.

 

[physics34]

Today, a twist, with a batch of cancellations on Coastway due to 'shortage of trains due to additional maintenance requirements'.

As an example, the 19.08 Brighton-Seaford is cancelled for this reason, and the following 19.23 Brighton-Newhaven Harbour pre-cancelled due to crew shortage.

I would have thought some juggling of available trains and crew could have allowed one of these diagrams to operate.

Yesterday was a Gatwick Express meltdown, and I see that today the extra cancellations have been dumped on East and West Coastways instead. On the Seaford branch, we're just told to go by bus instead: they haven't realised, one month in, that there isn't a bus between Seaford and Lewes/Falmer, which has considerable FE and HE traffic.

The feeling is they just " can't be bothered" to amend diagrams and move train crew around.

 

[Deepgreen]

A mess at Redhill again last evening, with splitting trains stuck and blocking platforms awaiting crews to take them forward.

 

[TheManBehind]

I know but it's taken some weeks to agree with within the same company so could there have been resistance from people within the bus side?

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There are commercial agreements to be signed in these cases, and bus ticket machines have to be amended to count any rail tickets seen in order to generate a "cost" for the train company. Likely any time taken was in order to decide cost and update the machines.

If there was resistance it's simply because most bus companies simply don't "need" the money - they have enough passengers, and rail work won't pay as well - what possible incentive is there?

 

[Deepgreen]

I have also noticed that Southern have seemingly abandoned any attempts to respond to complaints - I have several of well over a month old that have been ignored. What a shower!

 

[GodAtum]

quite a few trains being short-formed or cancelled for the past few weeks

 

[455driver]

Today, a twist, with a batch of cancellations on Coastway due to 'shortage of trains due to additional maintenance requirements'.

As an example, the 19.08 Brighton-Seaford is cancelled for this reason, and the following 19.23 Brighton-Newhaven Harbour pre-cancelled due to crew shortage.

I would have thought some juggling of available trains and crew could have allowed one of these diagrams to operate.

If there were crews that could easily be juggled without affecting their next working, PNBs, finishing times etc.

You have to remember that GTR have banned any strikers from working their rest days (and overtime I think).

 

[Deepgreen]

Today's illiterate message from Southern. How many coastbound tracks are there!? Two; so how can some (meaning more than one, but not all of them) be closed? Titles this long without any punctuation are hard work, too:


Safety inspection of the track between Earlswood Surrey and Gatwick Airport some coast bound lines are blocked.

Owing to safety checks being made in the Horley area which has resulted in a reduction of the line capacity between Earlswood and Gatwick Airport in the direction of Three Bridges,Southern and Gatwick Express services are subject to delay and alteration.

Network Rail, who own and maintain the track on which we run our trains, are attending the reported track defect and will be providing updates to us. They are on site and we will then provide further information about the problem once we receive them.

We are sorry for the delay to your journey today.

You can get in contact with us via Twitter (@SouthernRailUK).#Horley

If your journey with us has been delayed by 30 minutes or more, you may be entitled to compensation for a portion of your fare. Please visit www.southernrailway.com/delayrepay for details.

 

[tsr]

They're not even blocked!

So, a service update for RailForumites:

Engineers are working between trains to deal with wet beds on the Down Fast near Horley. Before this work is completed, speed restrictions are in place in the area, which have resulted in congestion due to trains not running as timetabled via Gatwick Airport; this was most severe around the morning peak, but is still having an impact and causing delays of around 5-15mins to some trains.

Will that do?

 

[Deepgreen]

They're not even blocked!

So, a service update for RailForumites:

Engineers are working between trains to deal with wet beds on the Down Fast near Horley. Before this work is completed, speed restrictions are in place in the area, which have resulted in congestion due to trains not running as timetabled via Gatwick Airport; this was most severe around the morning peak, but is still having an impact and causing delays of around 5-15mins to some trains.

Will that do?

Excellent - the trouble is, you have used punctuation and your message is too clear/accurate! I particularly find your use of the word "impact" as a noun, not a verb, rather distressing. Rare use of this by me:

 

[Sleeper]

I'm planning to fly off on holiday from Gatwick Airport this Sunday 12 June. I intend to travel by train from Chiswick to Gatwick changing at Clapham Junction.

I wish to be at the airport by 13:00 to give contingency of >1 hour for any issues at the airport.

NRE state that the train service offered in the hour before is as follows:-

CLJ: 11:38 11:53 12:12 12:23
GTW: 12:05 12:18 12:37 12:48

Under normal circumstances, the 12:12 or 12:23 ought to get me there by my preferred time. But how much extra should I allow in the circumstances of the current dispute on Southern? I'm on a cheap flight, so there are no prizes for being late!

Can someone who's familiar with the dispute's impact on the train service kindly give me some idea of what "worst case" level of cancellations I ought to allow for?

Thanks in anticipation.

 

[Hophead]

Probably impossible to predict but i'd take a pessimistic approach of the preferred train being cancelled and being unable to board the one before that due to overcrowding. Then you'll get to Clapham Junction and find yourself hoppping onto some other train running late.

Important to also note that station dwell times are frequently extended because of the number of people trying to board.

 

[Surreytraveller]

Gaps of an hour or more haven't been unknown. Get there early, and if the trains run on time go and sit in the pub at Gatwick

 

[Islineclear3_1]

I agree. Given that your local service runs every 30mins on a Sunday, I would leave early(ish) and allow plenty of time and factor in 2 or 3 cancellations and trains will be much busier than normal. Better you get to the airport early and have time for a drink/meal etc rather than arrive in the nick of time or worse still, late.

There were plenty of cancelled Southern trains today and in the time I was at Clapham Junction, I don't think there were any direct trains to Tonbridge or Reigate - they were running only as far as East Croydon. If you are unlucky to not get a direct train from Clapham, perhaps getting the train to East Croydon and then changing to a Thameslink train might be your other option.

Either way, I would not take any chances - especially on a Sunday...

 

[Hophead]

Robert's advice is pertinent - simply getting the first train to East Croydon and waiting for a connection is often the best option (I'm spending a lot of time there these days )

 

[bb21]

Go to Victoria and get National Express is my advice if you want something semi-reliable. The last thing you want to rely on is Southern in these times.

£8 single from Victoria and service runs hourly. Journey time 90 minutes.

Also means you don't have to be wedged on whatever turns up.

 

[Sleeper]

I'm planning to fly off on holiday from Gatwick Airport this Sunday 12 June. I intend to travel by train from Chiswick to Gatwick changing at Clapham Junction. ... (etc.)

Many thanks to all who replied to my post #196, above. All were of assistance to me.

BB21, I take your point about avoiding the railway altogether by using the coach, but it's a journey scheduled to take 3x as long, with lots of potential for road delays. (Initially I misread your advice to take National Express as Gatwick Express - the latter not something I often read on this forum!)

I've decided still to go by train, but go an hour earlier than originally planned, and go straight on to East Croydon and change if no direct train is shown. Splitting the journey that way much improves the situation because the number of trains on each leg is doubled or better. My decision, of course.

Wish me luck! Thanks again.

 

[Ellijay]

Had originally decided to travel from Havant to Victoria on Southern on 12th June.

After reading about the chaos decided to travel on SW Trains. Cancelled my original ticket but issuing company has a ten pound admin charge.

I didn't change my travel plans on a whim, as it's their fault, I wonder if I can get Southern to cough up?

 

[bengley]

Had originally decided to travel from Havant to Victoria on Southern on 12th June.

After reading about the chaos decided to travel on SW Trains. Cancelled my original ticket but issuing company has a ten pound admin charge.

I didn't change my travel plans on a whim, as it's their fault, I wonder if I can get Southern to cough up?

You don't need to cancel it. SWT are accepting Southern tickets during the disruption.

 

[Ellijay]

You don't need to cancel it. SWT are accepting Southern tickets during the disruption.

If only I asked this question yesterday. I've already bought SWT tickets.

 

[infobleep]

There are over running engineering works and signalling issues affecting South West Trains today. The amount of information they are giving out us very detailed. Explaining the issue and telling you how along the alternative routes are. They are even stating any issues they are experencing with buses.

It helps that it's during the day. Later at night I'd expect less information to be forthcoming.

However would GTR provide this level of information? I suspect not. Am I right?

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[Sleeper]

FWIW, my journey today passed without incident or delay. That doesn't in any way invalidate the advice given to me, nor does it diminish my appreciation for it. Thanks again.

 

[theironroad]

There are over running engineering works and signalling issues affecting South West Trains today. The amount of information they are giving out us very detailed. Explaining the issue and telling you how along the alternative routes are. They are even stating any issues they are experencing with buses.

It helps that it's during the day. Later at night I'd expect less information to be forthcoming.

However would GTR provide this level of information? I suspect not. Am I right?

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While I take your point about the level of info, it is pathetic that travel advice at 0930 on a sunday morning and for a few hours after that is 'do not travel today' as they were advising on their website this morning.

People need to get places for a whole variety of reasons and the railway is supposed to facilitate that, and a crane breaking down isn't really sufficient for people to have to cancel their plans.

 

[TheManBehind]

While I take your point about the level of info, it is pathetic that travel advice at 0930 on a sunday morning and for a few hours after that is 'do not travel today' as they were advising on their website this morning.

People need to get places for a whole variety of reasons and the railway is supposed to facilitate that, and a crane breaking down isn't really sufficient for people to have to cancel their plans.

Decision at SWT is taken at director level, and was probably based on the fact that both the routes via Effingham Jct and via Twickenham were also blocked due to engineering works. This meant that everything had to go via Brentford, sharing it with all of the Windsor-side services (or being terminated at Woking as many were).

The overrun was also around 7 hours all-in, which means the situation was classified Code Black and comes with a decision to be made about travel advice.

Whilst it may not be ideal, reducing passenger numbers in that situation prevented overcrowding at stations and makes staff a whole lot safer too!
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

There are over running engineering works and signalling issues affecting South West Trains today. The amount of information they are giving out us very detailed. Explaining the issue and telling you how along the alternative routes are. They are even stating any issues they are experencing with buses.

It helps that it's during the day. Later at night I'd expect less information to be forthcoming.

However would GTR provide this level of information? I suspect not. Am I right?

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Different companies have different messaging standards - I know other companies prefer to keep it very brief and minimal to concentrate on what's happening to their journey.

I'd also expect the same quality late at night (and often try my best to do so!) - customers are customers!

 

[infobleep]

Decision at SWT is taken at director level, and was probably based on the fact that both the routes via Effingham Jct and via Twickenham were also blocked due to engineering works. This meant that everything had to go via Brentford, sharing it with all of the Windsor-side services (or being terminated at Woking as many were).

The overrun was also around 7 hours all-in, which means the situation was classified Code Black and comes with a decision to be made about travel advice.

Whilst it may not be ideal, reducing passenger numbers in that situation prevented overcrowding at stations and makes staff a whole lot safer too!
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---


Different companies have different messaging standards - I know other companies prefer to keep it very brief and minimal to concentrate on what's happening to their journey.

I'd also expect the same quality late at night (and often try my best to do so!) - customers are customers!

Perhaps when replacement buses run they should come with a warning, if you don't like buses and extended journey times then please travel on another day! I know people who will not travel on a replacement bus service, preferring only trains.

Customers are customers but I've heard of people stuck late at night with hardly any information and pressing the help point did nothing. In fact I've seen people present both the help point and emergency buttons and get no response. They only pressed the emergency one because the help point didn't respond.

I've not used the Southern help points enough to know what they are like during disruption though.

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