Information for GTR Southern passengers during strike (no DOO discussion)

[infobleep]

Searching for Redhill to tonbridge on travelinesoutheast (for a departure at 09:45 tomorrow) and not selecting Trains on the method of transport brings up a journey involving 3 changes of bus - total journey time about 2 hours 7 minutes (direct train takes 42 min) - some journeys are 3 hours.
Most journeys involve changing buses in Sevenoaks so may be quicker to use the train Sevenoaks-Tonbridge.

Perhaps they will direct passengers to travel via Sevenoaks. Lol.

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[MrB]

I was just thinking the same thing. Knowing Southern it's possible they might go either way.

Do any local buses run between Tonbridge and Redhill. How much longer term would it take? Double the time?

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There are no local buses between the 2 towns. Normally during times of disruption Southern hire in a coach to replace the train service. I know from personal experience that the trains on this line are very busy with school children so this will cause some significant problems to many people in this area. I hope that alternative routes are well published rather that Southern just leaving people to fend for themselves.

 

[JonathanH]

Given Southeastern crews work a fair proportion of the Redhill to Tonbridge service (and can't really cover much else) I don't really get why *all* Redhill to Tonbridge services would be cancelled.

On the other hand the line doesn't load well off peak so cancelling it may cause less overall issues than anot her route.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

I thought Directly Operated Railways or at least the operational parts had been wound up last year. Is that correct and thus is Mick Cash just spouting nonsense for publicity or is he correct and DOR is there to run the services if GOVIA are stripped of Management Contract?

DOR is a shell company owned by DfT.
If needed I'm sure it or something similar can be resurrected to take over a failed franchise, although the personnel and contract would be different to the EC operation, which had nothing like the challenges of GTR.
But I doubt the DfT thinks Govia/GTR has failed yet.
The sub-agenda, of course, is that the RMT wants the DfT to axe the extension of DOO.
I doubt that would be part of the DfT plans.
We are also in a strange new world with Brexit dominating every government action.

Reading the BBC item, it looks like DfT has not yet sanctioned any service changes, and GTR management is due in front of the Transport Select Committee tomorrow (Tuesday).
Cancellations equals a profit hit for GTR, whether it's on a random basis or in a reduced timetable.

 

[Deepgreen]

DOR is a shell company owned by DfT.
If needed I'm sure it or something similar can be resurrected to take over a failed franchise, although the personnel and contract would be different to the EC operation, which had nothing like the challenges of GTR.
But I doubt the DfT thinks Govia/GTR has failed yet.
The sub-agenda, of course, is that the RMT wants the DfT to axe the extension of DOO.
I doubt that would be part of the DfT plans.
We are also in a strange new world with Brexit dominating every government action.

Reading the BBC item, it looks like DfT has not yet sanctioned any service changes, and GTR management is due in front of the Transport Select Committee tomorrow (Tuesday).
Cancellations equals a profit hit for GTR, whether it's on a random basis or in a reduced timetable.

Even under the fixed management fee arrangement that they currently enjoy?

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

Even under the fixed management fee arrangement that they currently enjoy?

I haven't waded through the TSGN franchise agreement, but there is a "Cancellations Benchmark Table", and an "Annual Cancellations Payment Table" (p387) involving 7-figure sums.
You don't give a contractor a large fixed sum for services without there being performance targets and penalties.
Govia's profits from GTR are already halved, and I expect recent events will have eaten further into them.
They can always hand the keys in (but that would cost them on other franchises (LM, SE) and in new bids, as well as the direct penalties for defaulting).

 

[a1a.a1a]

Ticket acceptance on Brighton & Hove Buses continues to be unreliable.

Hi Bishopstone,

Do you ever complain to anyone about this... and I don't mean customer services. Do you ever tell the real people who actually give a toss, IE station staff ?

I know for a fact that the people who arrange acceptance with B&H haven't heard there's a regular problem with acceptance?

 

[MrB]

Given Southeastern crews work a fair proportion of the Redhill to Tonbridge service (and can't really cover much else) I don't really get why *all* Redhill to Tonbridge services would be cancelled.

On the other hand the line doesn't load well off peak so cancelling it may cause less overall issues than anot her route.

That is a good point, surely if SE crews are on the route there is no need for the services to be cancelled?!

 

[ComUtoR]

That is a good point, surely if SE crews are on the route there is no need for the services to be cancelled?!

Wouldn't it depend on who's service requirement they fall under ? Are they worked with both SE Driver and Guard or mixed ? There will also be a problem with unit diagrams. If a unit is run from Tonbridge to Redhill then relieved by a Southern Driver or the unit is worked back from somewhere with Southern crew then it will have an affect.

*edit* quick thought. How much are GTR paying SE to run those services ? is there an cost element to the cancellations. How much is the projected loss of revenue for that route ?

 

[maniacmartin]

If the BBC report is true, what happens to people with season tickets on the Redhill-Tonbridge line? Will the be given pro-rata refunds?

 

[MrB]

Wouldn't it depend on who's service requirement they fall under ? Are they worked with both SE Driver and Guard or mixed ? There will also be a problem with unit diagrams. If a unit is run from Tonbridge to Redhill then relieved by a Southern Driver or the unit is worked back from somewhere with Southern crew then it will have an affect.

*edit* quick thought. How much are GTR paying SE to run those services ? is there an cost element to the cancellations. How much is the projected loss of revenue for that route ?

From what I've seen and heard I think that the majority are worked by SE guard & driver.

 

[tony6499]

Seems the Brighton to Southamptons are another service being cancelled on the amended timetable, shocking stuff really.

 

[Hophead]

More likely, surely, is that the Tonbridge service is truncated to run to Redhill only? Certain correspondents will surely be expecting a further diminution of the Redhill - London service?

 

[MrB]

More likely, surely, is that the Tonbridge service is truncated to run to Redhill only? Certain correspondents will surely be expecting a further diminution of the Redhill - London service?

No the article states that Tonbridge to Redhill services will be completely removed.

 

[SpacePhoenix]

Could SWT ever be allowed to take over the Southampton-Brighton route is things ever got bad enough?

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

The protagonists are in the same room together, on live TV, today:
House of Commons, Transport Select Committee
05 July 2016 10:05 am
Oral Evidence Session
Improving rail passenger experience

Witness(es)
Mick Cash, General Secretary, RMT
Paul Cox, Regional Organiser (South East), RMT
Dyan Crowther, Chief Operating Officer, Govia Thameslink Railways
Charles Horton, Chief Executive Officer, Govia Thameslink Railway

Location
The Wilson Room, Portcullis House

 

[Islineclear3_1]

My family and I need to travel to Gatwick this Saturday from my parents in Penge. Normally I would have gotten a train from Penge West to East Croydon and picked up the Gatwick service.

I can't access the NRE at work but I had a quick look the other day to see there were no trains between London Bridge and East Croydon due to engineering works - is this still the case?

I am therefore looking to travel to Victoria (from Penge East) and picking up the fast GatEx from there. In view of the (many) cancellations of Southern/TL services, are the GatEx's affected as much or are these just as likely to get cancelled at short notice?

 

[Fincra5]

Could SWT ever be allowed to take over the Southampton-Brighton route is things ever got bad enough?

Wouldn't be a bad idea.. but there's the issue of Crew Knowledge, enough traction to run the hourly service (etc)... so i doubt it.

From what the article says the SOU-VIC's will still run. Reducing the SN services out of SOU to 1ph...

 

[90sWereBetter]

Things are going from bad to worse for Southern - their entire existence is now being chalked up as a terrorist act.

As Southern Rail today permanently removes 15% of services from their timetable, the country is coming to terms with the fact that the only reasonable explanation for Southern Rail is that it is a terrorist act against the country.

“It’s diabolical,” said Simon Williams, a Southern Rail passenger who has been waiting at Haywards Heath to visit his sick father in Brighton since 2003.

“I mean, you expect terrorists to come at you with bombs and weapons, but to try and bring two counties and South London to their knees through mass incompetence in the administration of travel infrastructure?

“It’s diabolical.”

Southern Rail’s latest attack on the public is to reduce the number of services on the network in order to ban overtime as punishment for staff who participated in industrial action.

The plan was instigated by CEO Charles Horton, but suspicion is that the orders originated from the mountains of Afghanistan.

While Southern Rail is now widely accepted to been waging a sustained act of terrorism against the public since 2001, there is another theory that the Southern Rail board and Rail Minister Claire Perry are simply a catastrophic collection of galactic f**kheads.

http://newsthump.com/2016/07/05/southern-rail-a-terrorist-act-against-uk/

 

[ComUtoR]

The protagonists are in the same room together, on live TV, today:
House of Commons, Transport Select Committee
05 July 2016 10:05 am

Which channel please ?

 

[maniacmartin]

The new timetable has been published. It goes into effect on Monday 11th July (less than a week from now.

Timetbale 25 (Tattenham Corner) doesn't appear to download for me though.

There's no executive summary of the changes, however it looks like Redhill to Tonbridge services haven't officially been culled
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Which channel please ?

I would guess BBC Parliament, however you can stream it over the internet from this page of the Parliament website. The videos hang around on the site to view for a few days afterwards too

 

[tsr]

The new timetable has been published. It goes into effect on Monday 11th July (less than a week from now.

Timetbale 25 (Tattenham Corner) doesn't appear to download for me though.

There's no executive summary of the changes, however it looks like Redhill to Tonbridge services haven't officially been culled

Indeed not, though they aren't running between Redhill and London.

Southern's Milton Keynes Central / Watford Junction services (and variants thereof) have been cancelled on weekdays.

In fact, to emphasise, this revised timetable is a weekdays-only edition.

 

[ComUtoR]

I would guess BBC Parliament

They have euro parliment on at the mo, cheers for the link.

 

[Bishopstone]

No trains on the Seaford branch outside the peaks.

I hope if the bus replacements are being operated by Brighton & Hove, they will accept rail tickets.....

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

Which channel please ?

http://www.parliamentlive.tv/Event/Index/69dab8ef-e65d-4713-8ccf-98954e7345a1

Actually, they are not in the room together.
RMT first, followed by GTR.

 

[ComUtoR]

God they are terrible :/

Mick Cash currently being taken to task about "door button" and DOO. When safety is brought up he should have hammered them with the many incidents on DOO services.

 

[Hophead]

No the article states that Tonbridge to Redhill services will be completely removed.

It is not entirely unknown for journalists to get hold of the wrong end of the stick, particularly where public transport news is concerned (and subsequent posts appear to confirm this in this instance).

 

[theironroad]

Wouldn't be a bad idea.. but there's the issue of Crew Knowledge, enough traction to run the hourly service (etc)... so i doubt it.

From what the article says the SOU-VIC's will still run. Reducing the SN services out of SOU to 1ph...

Swt used to run a service from reading/Basingstoke to brighton which I think stopped about 10 years ago, though it was limited stops between Havant and brighton. Southern were given more paths from their patch to Portsmouth/Southampton.

I'm not sure I see it changing and while a some crew may only need a route refresher, most will need to start from scratch. Cant see it happening.

 

[zoneking]

Looks like all Guildford services culled.

 

[Bletchleyite]

And all services to MKC, which as there is no mention of ticket acceptance not only means a shoddy service but a whacking fare increase to travel via London (as multiple changes to use LO aren't really viable). Nice one, Southern. This will not be forgotten.