Information for GTR Southern passengers during strike (no DOO discussion)

[OFFDN]

I live and work in North London, normally, but next week (from the 6/12 to 9/12) I have meetings in Croydon. My two routes of choice for this journey are normally either St Pancras to East Croydon (Thameslink) or Victoria to East Croydon (Southern).

I have not yet had any experience of travel during the strikes so I have a few questions for frequent users. What is travel like between Victoria and Easy Croydon on strike days, in that direction, during the morning peak hours? Is there likely to be a significantly reduced service between these two stations next week, or will they fare okay as major stations on the route?

I am just trying to work out where I will be best off based (I live near St Pancras, but have family near Victoria) and which route will be best for me. Any helpful input from regulars/staff on this route during strike days would be very much appreciated!

 

[tsr]

I live and work in North London, normally, but next week (from the 6/12 to 9/12) I have meetings in Croydon. My two routes of choice for this journey are normally either St Pancras to East Croydon (Thameslink) or Victoria to East Croydon (Southern).

I have not yet had any experience of travel during the strikes so I have a few questions for frequent users. What is travel like between Victoria and Easy Croydon on strike days, in that direction, during the morning peak hours? Is there likely to be a significantly reduced service between these two stations next week, or will they fare okay as major stations on the route?

I am just trying to work out where I will be best off based (I live near St Pancras, but have family near Victoria) and which route will be best for me. Any helpful input from regulars/staff on this route during strike days would be very much appreciated!

As general advice, Victoria-East Croydon on an RMT conductors' strike day will normally be bearable at that time. On an ASLEF strike day, the service may be almost non-existent. The only trains you would be able to rely on would be Gatwick Expresses, if they made any additional stops.

Thameslink services should not be cancelled by strike action and they'd be what I'd choose first in a Southern ASLEF strike, but not necessarily in an RMT one if that option proved unduly inconvenient. The only caveat is that they are likely to be insanely busy on an ASLEF strike day.

 

[MrB]

Drivers only working contracted hours (ie. no overtime) from the 6th onwards.

Ah I see thanks.

 

[74A]

Drivers only working contracted hours (ie. no overtime) from the 6th onwards.

They will still be working contracted overtime such as Sunday and any agreements they have about working overtime on a normal shift. But no rest days or other overtime they don't have to do in their contract.

 

[Bishopstone]

Three anecdotes from my travels on a non-strike day with a 'good service':

i) Multiple consecutive cancellations on the Seaford branch, 06.00-09.00, because it was frosty.

ii) Gatwick Airport, early afternoon: 14.30, 14.45 and 15.00 Gatwick Express services cancelled due to unavailable crew. There is no 15.15 despite the 'every 15 minutes' marketing spiel, so there was no GatEx to Victoria between 14.15 and 15.30. Nothing by way of apology being broadcast.

iii) 17.22 London Bridge - Eastbourne formed 4 vice 12. On Monday and Tuesday it was 8 vice 12. Advice at Haywards Heath was to 'await the next Ore service following right behind'. (As if!)

Leaving aside the off-topic question of blame, I believe if it was London Underground suffering this level of chaos on a daily basis, political pressure would have forced intervention and resolution well before now.

 

[OFFDN]

As general advice, Victoria-East Croydon on an RMT conductors' strike day will normally be bearable at that time. On an ASLEF strike day, the service may be almost non-existent. The only trains you would be able to rely on would be Gatwick Expresses, if they made any additional stops.

Thameslink services should not be cancelled by strike action and they'd be what I'd choose first in a Southern ASLEF strike, but not necessarily in an RMT one if that option proved unduly inconvenient. The only caveat is that they are likely to be insanely busy on an ASLEF strike day.

Okay, thank you for the advice! Looks like I will take a risk with Victoria to East Croydon then, see how it goes and take it from there.

 

[Deepgreen]

What do you do in that situation? Taxi? Are they easily obtained in Redhill station in times of delay?

I normally try to get to Reigate and ask my wife to collect me from there!

 

[Deepgreen]

Ah, the 1933 LBG-HRH. A very busy train as far as Coulsdon South and hardly one which could reasonably be considered "off-peak" these days, whatever the actual ticket restrictions for that time of day might say! The inbound working from East Grinstead was OK and I'm not 100% sure what would have caused the delay heading back out. I notice one or two Southern services into London Bridge were delayed quite heavily around that time, and I can't remember if the driver could have been on one of those.

First Class is pretty difficult to enforce on that train and many of the other "mainline" services around it, and I am aware of stories of a number of incidents of passengers being very abusive when asked to move on that service, or just refusing to do so, when in possession of Standard tickets. A big part of the problem is that at least two, if not more, of the First Class sections will not have dividing doors, as they are on the 377/3 units.

There is also the fact that although a conductor will still work this train from East Grinstead to London Bridge, they will be booked "Assist" when heading back out, as it is a Horsham service, meaning the train is actually operated DOO(P) and the requirement for a conductor to be present has been removed. This means there may not be any second person on board if their diagram is amended and they are moved to another train.

As for the PIS system glitch, it has been going for some time, and I'm afraid it seems there is no quick fix. All Southern 377s have the same problem of announcing short platforms after departure from the previous stop, but without mentioning which station it is for. The sequencing of announcements was juggled around a while ago and it no longer always makes sense for the more complex announcements such as these. Compare and contrast with the Thameslink 377/5s which are much better. At some locations they are also based on the "worst case scenario" of announcing the length of the shortest platform at the station, if the platform length varies and the train is unable to work out which line it is using in advance. There are ways of overriding it to make a manual announcement first, but of course this can't be done if dispatch or (for the conductor) other customer assistance is being made a priority.

I understand all that you have said (and thanks for the detailed post) but first class is simply ignored by staff these days and is a free-for-all. Of course the lack of dividing doors doesn't help (and even on the 377/4s they frequently don't work)

I'm afraid the entire Southern information machine is very poor - messages are verbose, or wrong, or absent when needed, both on train and at stations. During strikes, for example, the standard scrolling message (at Redhill anyway) is that there will be fewer trains to London (my bold) - are we supposed to glean from this that all other destinations will be served as normal?? Pointlessly specific/verbose, especially at somewhere like Redhill with its multiple down direction destinations.

During disruption especially, trains are frequently described as being on time when they are tens of minutes late and are actually obviously never going to appear (yesterday at Reigate and again this morning at Redhill - picture attached) and no corrections are offered. The number of 377s where the PIS simply doesn't work is growing rapidly in my experience.

Then we have the second crew members whose only contribution to the entire journey's information is to repeat the recorded message as we approach Victoria or London Bridge almost verbatim (but not quite, sometimes with errors!). This morning the second crew member cut off the recorded message to announce what it had been trying to tell us as we approached Victoria! I can't image what she was trying to achieve.

 

[maniacmartin]

BBC News report that Southern Railway pre-Christmas strike moved

RMT calls off Southern Railway strike just before Christmas, instead announcing 48-hour stoppage from 19 December

This breaking news story is being updated and more details will be published shortly. Please refresh the page for the fullest version.

RMT website says

1 December 2016
RMT Press Office:

RAIL UNION RMT is altering its guards Christmas action dates on Southern following consultation with reps and members.

Regarding the strike action called for 22nd to 24th December, the union is rescinding the instruction to conductor members to take strike action on those days. Members are now instructed to work normally on those days. Instead, we are instructing our members to take strike action by not booking on for any shifts between the hours of 0001 on Monday 19th December and 2359 on Tuesday 20th December.

The other actions the union has called, from Tuesday 6th December to Thursday 8th December and from Saturday 31st December to Tuesday 2nd January, remain in force.

Mick Cash, RMT General Secretary, said: “Our guards on Southern are in daily contact with passengers and the support for our fight to defend safety remains phenomenal. RMT is truly grateful for the overwhelming public backing for the campaign to keep a second, safety-critical member of staff on Southern trains."It is from that daily feedback from passengers that the union has taken the decision to alter the dates for action over Christmas. That's the difference between us and Southern. We listen, they don't."

 

[Deepgreen]

Deleted.

 

[Bishopstone]

I see the infrastructure between Three Bridges and Balcombe, which seems to be the subject of engineering possessions almost every Sunday, has failed again. More chaos on a 'good service' non-strike day. Looking difficult for the pm peak.

 

[tsr]

I see the infrastructure between Three Bridges and Balcombe, which seems to be the subject of engineering possessions almost every Sunday, has failed again. More chaos on a 'good service' non-strike day. Looking difficult for the pm peak.

There was a complex track circuit fault requiring hours of testing and component replacements, despite considerable staff effort. It was reported to be fully resolved about 10 minutes ago, as of the time of this post, and services are being reinstated as and when crews and trains are in the right places.

Unfortunately, a combination of the incidents which occurred when the problem emerged, line block requirements at the location on the two-track section of the BML, and trains being held and therefore blocking platforms across the network, has led to severe disruption.

 

[Deepgreen]

I see the infrastructure between Three Bridges and Balcombe, which seems to be the subject of engineering possessions almost every Sunday, has failed again. More chaos on a 'good service' non-strike day. Looking difficult for the pm peak.

I have to agree that this stretch of railway (which, despite being very busy, is relatively not at all complex) does seem to suffer a ridiculously high rate of failure given the amount of maintenance effort that is seemingly expended on it.

 

[FordFocus]

Deepgreen, as a regular commuter on that line (having read some of your horror stories about missed connections) would you say the £20m invested from the government have made any visible improvements? I know it wasn't going to be an overnight fix!

 

[physics34]

There was a complex track circuit fault requiring hours of testing and component replacements, despite considerable staff effort. It was reported to be fully resolved about 10 minutes ago, as of the time of this post, and services are being reinstated as and when crews and trains are in the right places.

Unfortunately, a combination of the incidents which occurred when the problem emerged, line block requirements at the location on the two-track section of the BML, and trains being held and therefore blocking platforms across the network, has led to severe disruption.

problem being service recovery on the network is virtually non-existant for varying reasons.

 

[sarahj]

I heard it was in Balcombe tunnel, which if so is very wet. The problem is the line is now almost 170 odd years old and is creaking at the seams. Many repairs are almost sticking plaster jobs. The only way to fix it would be to do what they do in Germany and France. Close the line and do an almost total rebuild. As we know thats never gonna' happen, it's just a case of chasing the problems. And with it being so busy, any issue quickly causes a buildup of late trains. And since it's all run on a knife edge it all falls down.

 

[infobleep]

I heard it was in Balcombe tunnel, which if so is very wet. The problem is the line is now almost 170 odd years old and is creaking at the seams. Many repairs are almost sticking plaster jobs. The only way to fix it would be to do what they do in Germany and France. Close the line and do an almost total rebuild. As we know thats never gonna' happen, it's just a case of chasing the problems. And with it being so busy, any issue quickly causes a buildup of late trains. And since it's all run on a knife edge it all falls down.

So is it the drainage that's the issue rather than the ballast or tracks?

Perhaps they could create a BML two and open that instead. Reinstate the line to Horstead Keynes as well and then go up to East Grinstead. Yes Balcombe wouldn't be served but it's a village. The number of villages that lost lines over the years on fast intercity lines.

It would also cause issues getting to Three Bridges and Gatwick, so my fantasy idea is just like pure fantasy.

I guess sticky back plastic will have to do.

Sent from my SM-G925F using Tapatalk

 

[43074]

There is a phenomenally unprofessional and badly written piece on the Southern website about this: http://www.southernrailway.com/southern/news/disruption-tonight/

Disruption tonight
Passengers are advised that due to a major signalling failure in the Balcombe tunnel today which meant that the line had to be blocked seveeral times while Network Rail attended to the fault, Southern, Gatwick Express and Thameslink services will be severely disrupted this evening as many trains and train crew are out of position. This means that delays of up to 60 minutes and cancellations are likely until the end of the day.

A Network Rail spokesperson said: “We are very sorry for the disruption passengers are experiencing on the Brighton Main Line. Owing to a signalling problem at Balcombe tunnel services are being delayed in both directions."

Please check before you travel this evening. details on the disruption are available at: http://www.nationalrail.co.uk/service_disruptions/today.aspx

 

[Kite159]

I live and work in North London, normally, but next week (from the 6/12 to 9/12) I have meetings in Croydon. My two routes of choice for this journey are normally either St Pancras to East Croydon (Thameslink) or Victoria to East Croydon (Southern).

I have not yet had any experience of travel during the strikes so I have a few questions for frequent users. What is travel like between Victoria and Easy Croydon on strike days, in that direction, during the morning peak hours? Is there likely to be a significantly reduced service between these two stations next week, or will they fare okay as major stations on the route?

I am just trying to work out where I will be best off based (I live near St Pancras, but have family near Victoria) and which route will be best for me. Any helpful input from regulars/staff on this route during strike days would be very much appreciated!

If you are trying to travel to East Croydon, then don't forget you could head to Wimbledon on SWT or LU, Elmers End or Beckenham Junction on SET and catch a tram to East Croydon to avoid GTR on those strike days.

 

[infobleep]

National Rail Enquiries say the 18.02 left East Croydon 19 Kate and then was delayed. It has no report before that time. Real Time Trains show it as cancelled throughout.

Thar isn't the only train to have some odd behaviour on National Rail Enquiries. Anyone know why? Is there a technical fault somewhere else in additional the signalling issues in the Tunnel?

Sent from my SM-G925F using Tapatalk

 

[sarahj]

I don't know, but it was acting up this afternoon. My 12.13 Brighton to Hove was being canx as I had no driver. The original driver was stuck somewhere between Vic and Btn, and there was no spare. I was using the NRE app to find out about a possible next train for my punters and others and trying to work out which platform the 12.33 to Southampton would arrive (and depart) and it came up short. Not showing the progress of the train in question.

Anyway, good luck to all trying to get home this evening. Some of the pics of crowds at Gatwick and the Heath have been shocking.

 

[Chrisgr31]

Last night on the Uckfield line was not great, the 20:04 and 22:04 from LBG cancelled and the 21:04 left almost an hour late.

This evening wasnt great with the 16:08 failing at Hever leading to delays for later trains, and the cancellation of the 19:08

 

[Surreytraveller]

problem being service recovery on the network is virtually non-existant for varying reasons.

Trouble is, on Southern, once crews and / or stock are out of place that's it. Game over.

 

[Starmill]

Looks like this morning brings an announcement on compensation. Delay Repay after 15 minutes from 11th December, and one month of the value of a season as compensation for anyone who has had 3 months or more since the end of April.

 

[fusionblue]

Looks like this morning brings an announcement on compensation. Delay Repay after 15 minutes from 11th December, and one month of the value of a season as compensation for anyone who has had 3 months or more since the end of April.

I wonder if TFL travelcards would be included in this. It's not clear which way.

 

[74A]

I wonder if TFL travelcards would be included in this. It's not clear which way.

I should imagine it will depend on where you purchased from. Buy it from Southern and you will get it. Buy it from TfL and you won't

 

[Starmill]

Some people will have bought them from TfL or others and use the service every day. I guess they could ask you to demonstrate that you use Southern in a regular basis (e.g. If you have an Oyster history) and award it that way.

 

[al78]

There is a phenomenally unprofessional and badly written piece on the Southern website about this: http://www.southernrailway.com/southern/news/disruption-tonight/

What is wrong with it? As far as I can see it warns of major delays, the reason for those delays and an apology for the delays. I can't see anything in there that is unprofessional. I think it is good they mentioned delays caused by trains and train crew out of position, as I don't think many people appreciate this secondary effect of delays and the problems it causes

 

[infobleep]

So how easy is it for a timetable planning team to work out a timetable from 6 Dec? Will it be easy to work out the amount of resources that are linked to overtime or is it very complicated?

I'm sure they are earning their pay right now.

From a timetable creation and interest point of view, it must be fascinating work. I happen to find timetables fascinating.

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[43074]

What is wrong with it? As far as I can see it warns of major delays, the reason for those delays and an apology for the delays. I can't see anything in there that is unprofessional. I think it is good they mentioned delays caused by trains and train crew out of position, as I don't think many people appreciate this secondary effect of delays and the problems it causes

The spelling mistake? A comma or two wouldn't go amiss?